81 replies to this topic

[Humbug]

At least Autosport reported the comment of GvdG in an head article. Can not deny that they reported over the issue very poorly as the authority of motorsport. Probably they had the approach; we're eating from the same plate the teams, so we don't spitt on it. Missed chance in my opinion!

[Jejking]

Well, i hope they do the same with the nauseating backlash from Sauber to Giedo on Facebook because all allegations were declared true by the judges.

[loki]

Well, i hope they do the same with the nauseating backlash from Sauber to Giedo on Facebook because all allegations were declared true by the judges.

The ruling was there there was a valid contract.  It was not whatever Van der Garde said post the ruling regarding the accuracy of any statements.

[TIPO61]

Kaltenborn claimed to be a 'specialist' in these very areas comes off as 'the fool'.

 

Hopefully she'll get the axe. If not this time, then the next time. And there surely will be one.

 

("and stop calling me Shirley")

[superden]

Peter Sauber has already publicly thrown his full support behind Monisha though, has he not. In some cases, that can be the death knell, but I doubt it in this case.

[Jejking]

The ruling was there there was a valid contract.  It was not whatever Van der Garde said post the ruling regarding the accuracy of any statements.

Okay I should have mentioned that in a better way, but indeed it all came down to that there was a valid contract for 2015 in place

 

Peter Sauber has already publicly thrown his full support behind Monisha though, has he not. In some cases, that can be the death knell, but I doubt it in this case.

What else can he possibly do to prevent further damage to the team? If Monisha would have backed down, that would have sent the message that Sauber is a rudderless ship in turbulent times at the Formula 1 sea. Would have done no good to the sponsors, who could depart because of damage to their imago after mismanagement from the team. that would be Saubers downfall actually.

Edited by Jejking, 19 March 2015 - 09:49.

[KWSN - DSM]

Media losely defined as media dealing with Formula One see this matter as much less than what the fan base does. They do not see this as anything more than a few lines should be used on, and they have by and large done that.

 

They see it as a matter not not worth more than a few lines of print - a has-been driver who arguably does not deserve a seat on merit (hence pay-driver) and a team that failed to win a point last year: and they fight over a crowded cockpit. The indignation this board have over the matter in the rights and wrongs of this are not shared by the Formula One media, there will be precious little action on this moving forward, none of the established journalists will try to grill Sauber or Monisha over this during the season as it progress.

 

The issue of a large part of the fan base seeing this as a symptom of the overall ill's of Formula One is clearly not shared by the overall Formula One media, those of us who are emotionally will see the same disregard and inaction from the overall Formula One media in this matter, as we see disregard and inaction for all our concerns of how Formula One is headed for a fiscal and sporting cataclysmic Armageddon.

 

All in all the overall Formula One media is saying "nothing to see here, move along".

 

[ensign14]

Which goes back to the point of the Formula 1 media being worse than useless if they can only report what the poor bloody infantry can see in front of their eyes.  What's the point of paying for journalism if it not simply adds nothing, but actually subtracts from the meaning of the story?

[pUs]

They will forget it easily and certainly won't be asking any annoying questions. F1 "journalists" aren't working to the same standards as journalists in general. Be too critical, too provocative, and you won't get that nice pit pass. Simple as that. So no worries, this will be forgotten. Just like everything else. Gotta love the transparency in this sport.

[pUs]

Which goes back to the point of the Formula 1 media being worse than useless if they can only report what the poor bloody infantry can see in front of their eyes.  What's the point of paying for journalism if it not simply adds nothing, but actually subtracts from the meaning of the story?

 

Well, there is no point paying for it. There's very little "journalism" left in the various F1 publications these days in my opinion. 

[Newbrray]

Couldn't find anywhere else to post this and am not sure it warrants a new thread. The mods can  re-open relevant thread  and merge this there.

 

Apparently Sauber (Monisha Kaltenborn) had contracts for 2015 with 6 drivers  - Colin Kolles

 

Article Link 

 

Dutchman van der Garde took Sauber to court at the 2015 season opener in Melbourne, claiming the Swiss team did not honour his race contract.

But “There were not just three contracts,” Kolles claimed. “There were six.”

In addition to van der Garde, Felipe Nasr and Marcus Ericsson, the other deals were with Adrian Sutil and also Esteban Gutierrez and Bianchi, he said.

Kolles claims the latter deal was signed mere hours before the Frenchman, who remains in a coma six months later, crashed at Suzuka.

“There was a contract signed at noon on Sunday,” he said, explaining the deal would “partially offset” some of Sauber’s debts.

With Sauber struggling financially, Kolles claims team boss Monisha Kaltenborn was frantically coming up with questionable solutions.

 

[Imateria]

The Bianchi connection has been made plenty of times before and we've seen a few stories suggesting that it was his unfortunate crash that tipped Sauber into their questionable decision making. We already know Sutil had a contract as their is/was separate legal actions going on around the matter. Gutierrez would surprise me, I mean does he even still have Telmex backing as I remember some talk early last year that he was probably going to loose it after the 14 season and given how rubbish he was last year I can't see any reason why Sauber would have wanted to re sign him.

[MustangSally]

Thanks for posting.

 

I was rather curious myself about the fallout . . . if not surprised to see her still around. In fact, I did a news search myself.

 

No-one is allowed to comment about the deal, but Ms Kaltenborn did permit herself this: source

 

"I was too trusting and have trusted and have been bitterly punished.."

 

 

 

So, she's in poor sobbing woman mode.

 

Nice of Colin to come along and stir it again. 

[brr]

 

Apparently Sauber (Monisha Kaltenborn) had contracts for 2015 with 6 drivers  - Colin Kolles

 

 

That should be enough to raise a class action suit against Sauber.

[MustangSally]

The Bianchi connection has been made plenty of times before and we've seen a few stories suggesting that it was his unfortunate crash that tipped Sauber into their questionable decision making. We already know Sutil had a contract as their is/was separate legal actions going on around the matter. Gutierrez would surprise me, I mean does he even still have Telmex backing as I remember some talk early last year that he was probably going to loose it after the 14 season and given how rubbish he was last year I can't see any reason why Sauber would have wanted to re sign him.

 

For the record, the Bianchi contract was signed at Suzuka, prior to the crash, thereby reducing the debt to Ferrari. Gutierrez also had  a contract according to Kolles. This is also referenced by Sky back in 2014 when Sutil finds himself out of a job.

 

http://www.motorspor...gen-kaltenborn/

[Timstr11]

Of course Colin Kolles himself is known as a man with the highest integrity. Can't think of a better person to criticize Sauber.

[Nemo1965]

Of course Colin Kolles himself is known as a man with the highest integrity. Can't think of a better person to criticize Sauber.

 

Ah. An ad homimem. I know it is very tempting, but Kolles could be an axe-wielding pedophile Neo-Nazi... and still tell the truth. As far as I can see he is not 'criticizing' Sauber, he is stating, an alleged 'fact'.

 

We know for certain (it is on print) that Sauber had contracts with three drivers, allegedly even four, perhaps even five or six. If that last is true it really shows how desperate Kaltenborn had become (no excuse, again).

 

Regarding the topic of the thread: I think that the media have done their job okayish, I think that Autosport undervalued the case first but have repaired that with good op-ed articles. I don't think at the moment there is a lot to report on the matter, so...

 

But I have to say that every news article about Sauber's car or drivers provokes a big 'meh'-reaction from me. So I'd rather have the media ignore Sauber in general.

[scumbarma]

The fact that MK is still there and that PS so far as I have heard has remained silent, is so sad as I used to think Sauber as one of the teams on the straight and narrow, its like the whole thing never happened. Maybe BE let the press know not to comment any further. In my book you dont ****, lie and cheat, then sort of apologise  with out the media going nuts ( which they did) then after they have a good dig, which it looks like they aint going to. Been told not to?

[Nemo1965]

The fact that MK is still there and that PS so far as I have heard has remained silent, is so sad as I used to think Sauber as one of the teams on the straight and narrow, its like the whole thing never happened. Maybe BE let the press know not to comment any further. In my book you dont ****, lie and cheat, then sort of apologise  with out the media going nuts ( which they did) then after they have a good dig, which it looks like they aint going to. Been told not to?

 

I don't think there is a gag-order out... I think most journalists deal with Sauber (and with Monica Kaltenborn and Peter Sauber) with, as the Dutch say it, 'bend toes'. They find it embarrassing to keep hammering on the story, I think they feel it is their duty to report on the matters at hand: the races and Saubers good results. But I think two things: a. Sauber has lost a lot of goodwill with the press and I think that without the whole Van der Garde-debacle their good results would have led to many more jubilant story's in the press. b. If Sutil presses forward with a lawsuit and has any kind of success they will not hesitate to write about it.

[Gilles4Ever]

Another attempt at hijacking the thread and turning it into a Sauber vs GvdG thread.

Please keep to the topic - will the media pretend saubergate doesnt exist?

[Nemo1965]

Another attempt at hijacking the thread and turning it into a Sauber vs GvdG thread.

Please keep to the topic - will the media pretend saubergate doesnt exist?

 

Eh? Are you talking about me? My post was about the topic, right?

Edited by Nemo1965, 14 April 2015 - 19:58.

[Gilles4Ever]

Eh? Are you talking about me? My post was about the topic, right?

Yours was, warning was not aimed at you.

[Nemo1965]

Yours was, warning was not aimed at you.

 

Okay, but now I have a strange question perhaps: what IS Sauber-gate exactly? Sutil vs Sauber? Guttiriez against Sauber? The debts that Sauber has (still)? Is there still a story? Is there a development? I am not asking rhetorical questions, I am just wondering if there are rumblings with the team that the media are hesitant to pick up (as some posters allude to).

[Dolph]

When the Saubergate was at full swing Monisha told she cannot comment anything because of the lawsuit. Now the lawsuit is over and settlement reached. Why isn't anyone asking the questions now - did you knowingly sign 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 drivers to race for your tema in 2015? Why wasn't the GVDG contract honoured etc.

[KWSN - DSM]

Quoting myself from earlier in the thread:

 

They see it as a matter not not worth more than a few lines of print - a has-been driver who arguably does not deserve a seat on merit (hence pay-driver) and a team that failed to win a point last year: and they fight over a crowded cockpit. The indignation this board have over the matter in the rights and wrongs of this are not shared by the Formula One media, there will be precious little action on this moving forward, none of the established journalists will try to grill Sauber or Monisha over this during the season as it progress.

 

Regardless of what I feel and think, the media moved on immediately have zero inclination in pressing an issue they see as a non-issue.

 

[Gilles4Ever]

Okay, but now I have a strange question perhaps: what IS Sauber-gate exactly? Sutil vs Sauber? Guttiriez against Sauber? The debts that Sauber has (still)? Is there still a story? Is there a development? I am not asking rhetorical questions, I am just wondering if there are rumblings with the team that the media are hesitant to pick up (as some posters allude to).

  

so no camera footage of cops seizing assets etc?

This thread was for discussing why there was no press coverage. I don't see anything to discuss.

[Fastcake]

When the Saubergate was at full swing Monisha told she cannot comment anything because of the lawsuit. Now the lawsuit is over and settlement reached. Why isn't anyone asking the questions now - did you knowingly sign 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 drivers to race for your tema in 2015? Why wasn't the GVDG contract honoured etc.

It's generally part of the settlement that neither side will publicly comment on the dispute or the terms.

[taran]

I wonder why the driver's association isn't making more of a stink about this. I understand Sauber wants to keep quiet about it (although they tend to shoot themselves in the foot repeatedly), I understand that Bernie wants to keep it silent (he even advanced them the money to pay of vd Garde 'allegedly'), I understand why journalists might not be willing to pursue it (they have been cowards regarding Bernie's circus for so long they probably don't even **** without permission) but what about the drivers?

 

This was about as blatant as you can get about screwing a driver. Surely, they are the ones who should be stepping on toes, talking to the media and harrassing the FIA for a driver-team contract recognition board. Where is Wurz when you actually need him?

[Mohican]

Offer of settlement was made & accepted by GvdG, settlement was reached, payment effected, case closed.

 

Why is Kolles now trying to stir this up again ? And what does he know, anyway ? How is he involved, if at all ?

Could there be some truth to rumours about his being involved in anttempt to gain control of the team, pushibg PS & MK out ?

[ensign14]

Another attempt at hijacking the thread and turning it into a Sauber vs GvdG thread.

Please keep to the topic - will the media pretend saubergate doesnt exist?

 

Well, there's not much point in continuing with the thread, is there?  The media have all flat out ignored Saubergate.  No follow-ups, no seeking comments from Sutil or Gutierrez, no interviews with Kaltenborn about those allegations, no investigation as to whether Bernie had a few words, nothing on the financial model that means a long-term GP-winning team has had to sign up 6 drivers for 2 seats, nothing about there being about two dozen drivers better qualified than vdG or Sutil to drive, or about two thousand being better qualified than Gutierrez, but that, Red Bull apart, it's all about the money.

Formula 1 does not have reporters, it has sycophants greedily lapping up the pus extruded by the Ecclestone arsehole for fear of starvation.

[Ross Stonefeld]

While true, it's a little strange people suddenly worry about 'integrity' on this story.

[ensign14]

There are others as well.  E.g. the FOM campaign to crush Manor.  Just that this one is so obvious.  An issue which goes to the heart about how F1 is governed, run, generates cash, operates morally, and the media overtly refuse to even consider thinking about covering it.