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Posted 12 March 2015 - 19:06
This battle is still missing I see, so here it is.
Last year was a season to forget for Lotus with a highly unreliable and slow car. This year, with the switch to Mercedes and a better preparation during the winter, prospects look good for Lotus. We know what Grosjean is capable of in a good car and Maldonado can have his high's as well.
What do we expect? Lotus is genuinly seen as a dark horse for this season by many pundits.
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Posted 13 March 2015 - 13:37
Hopefully both have a strong season and rebuild their reputations somewhat.
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Posted 13 March 2015 - 17:14
Cyril Abiteboul said Renault delay the development of its engine
Best Regards.... 
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Posted 13 March 2015 - 17:18
I think Grosjean has been super solid for a while now. He was a bit invisible last year due to the lousy car, but he outperformed Maldonado and didn't have any notable blunders(that I can remember).Hopefully both have a strong season and rebuild their reputations somewhat.
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Posted 13 March 2015 - 17:40
Grosjean is the more complete driver. Especially after the blunders of 2012 he has taken serious steps forward in subsequent seasons in terms of consistency. Maldonado blows hot and cold, will lose out overall, but has some good days as well.
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Posted 13 March 2015 - 18:08
Grosjean is the more complete driver. Especially after the blunders of 2012 he has taken serious steps forward in subsequent seasons in terms of consistency. Maldonado blows hot and cold, will lose out overall, but has some good days as well.
He's been excellent since Monaco 2013.
Edited by Jon83, 13 March 2015 - 18:08.
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Posted 13 March 2015 - 20:12
I think Grosjean has been super solid for a while now. He was a bit invisible last year due to the lousy car, but he outperformed Maldonado and didn't have any notable blunders(that I can remember).
Exactly, that wasn't in question but it was more to do with the fact neither driver got much positive press last season.
Maldonado was a bit crap in the first half of last season but seemed to turn a corner in the later races. I think it will be close between them this year.
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Posted 13 March 2015 - 20:35
Cyril Abiteboul said Renault delay the development of its engine
Best Regards....
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 22:25
'CRASHTOR' is an embarrasment to F-1 & his country/sponsor.
He gives pay drivers a worse name.
Total 'Nutter'.
Member
Posted 16 March 2015 - 23:04
'CRASHTOR' is an embarrasment to F-1 & his country/sponsor.
He gives pay drivers a worse name.
Total 'Nutter'.
This kind of language ("crashtor", "nutter") says so much more about you than it does about Maldonado.
Member
Posted 17 March 2015 - 00:06
Exactly, that wasn't in question but it was more to do with the fact neither driver got much positive press last season.
Maldonado was a bit crap in the first half of last season but seemed to turn a corner in the later races. I think it will be close between them this year.
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Posted 17 March 2015 - 01:58
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Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:40
This kind of language ("crashtor", "nutter") says so much more about you than it does about Maldonado.
I'm not trying to drive an F-1 car.
I don't have many millions of my country's oil money (discounted of late) on my back.
'jus sayin'
Member
Posted 17 March 2015 - 10:19
It was a straight line though.
Well, yes, that's true. One of the most bizarre offs I've seen in F1.
Edited by ANF, 17 March 2015 - 10:22.
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Posted 17 March 2015 - 21:40
We all like to bash Pastor for his crashes, but this time he really was just a victim in a car melee. Shame we didn't get any race comparison between the two drivers this time. So onto the next race!
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Posted 17 March 2015 - 21:46
They had an easy 5th - 6th place finish on the weekend. Shame but they'll be in the points in the next race for sure
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Posted 18 March 2015 - 23:49
We all like to bash Pastor for his crashes, but this time he really was just a victim in a car melee. Shame we didn't get any race comparison between the two drivers this time. So onto the next race!
I don't get why people are saying Pastor wasn't to blame in Melbourne.
He had plenty of space on the right, if he hadn't been so close he wouldn't have been tagged.
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Posted 19 March 2015 - 00:33
I don't get why people are saying Pastor wasn't to blame in Melbourne.
He had plenty of space on the right, if he hadn't been so close he wouldn't have been tagged.
Member
Posted 19 March 2015 - 01:44
Seriously? Another car was punted into him, which he had no responsibility for at all. His positioning was fine.
He was moving to the left and squeezing that car excessively. That caused the contact which led to the car being punted into him. Was he completely unaware of a slow-moving Ferrari? Probably he was, but he must have seen that the car on his left wasn't moving over in response to his pressure.
Apart possibly from the rookies, there are not many drivers in the current field who would have had that accident.
Edited by BillBald, 19 March 2015 - 01:47.
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Posted 12 April 2015 - 07:43
So is there any more doubts on this ? Maldonado is on cab driver level while Romain is a real F1 Driver.
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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:03
It should have been a double points finish. Maldonado has probably wasted more points than he has earned over his career. It's beyond a joke at this point.
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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:06
It should have been a double points finish. Maldonado has probably wasted more points than he has earned over his career. It's beyond a joke at this point.
Just when it seemed he had good pace and was on course to a good result, he makes multiple mistakes.
I think it is easier to count weekends, when Maldonado does NOT make mistakes.
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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:03
When he was going toe to toe earlier on in the race and not crashing I thought "FINALLY!!!! Pastor has turned a corner" and then it all went wrong.
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Posted 12 April 2015 - 10:07
Maldonado did OK after the first pitstops, he even ended up in front of Grosjean. What happened to him that he ended up between the McLarens? Did that spin cost him that much time?
Anyway, if Lotus finally gets out of financial troubles, Maldonado's gone for sure. Someone like Hulkenberg or Pérez deserve a good car.
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Posted 12 April 2015 - 13:06
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Posted 12 April 2015 - 15:04
Yeah were the issues Maldonado had definitely not all brake related?
Before his retirement, I was quite keen to stick the boot in but would want to know for sure when his brakes started to fail before having a go at him.
Good drive by Grosjean today.
Member
Posted 14 April 2015 - 14:11
Maldonado did OK after the first pitstops, he even ended up in front of Grosjean.
Well, that's the thing.
It is not like Pastor lacks speed. He has shown it plenty in his career.
He outraced Bottas in 2013 in head-to-head finishes.
He was fast throughout 2012, sitting in good positions in the Williams.
He was getting the better of Barrichello in late 2011.
And of course he is the GP2 champion.
But unfortunately his racecraft is not up to F1 standards. Too many simple errors and misjudgements here and there and this is letting him down badly.
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 15:08
Well, that's the thing.
It is not like Pastor lacks speed. He has shown it plenty in his career.
He outraced Bottas in 2013 in head-to-head finishes.
He was fast throughout 2012, sitting in good positions in the Williams.
He was getting the better of Barrichello in late 2011.
And of course he is the GP2 champion.
But unfortunately his racecraft is not up to F1 standards. Too many simple errors and misjudgements here and there and this is letting him down badly.
I fear it is even worse. His race-craft is fine. IMHO, he just has a severe lack of judgement and lack of self-criticism. He is deified in his home-country. His quick win in F1 has convinced Pastor that he is already an accomplished driver. He really does believe that he is a superstar. He thinks he never makes mistake. The guy got real skills but he has an ego that could put Nigel Mansell's in the shade.
What happens time and time again is that he does not stop himself. Take that strange crash that was just mentioned in this thread. He had already lost before there, almost. Even Vittorio Brambilla, Andrea de Cesaris would have slowed down, take stock, trying to analyse what just happened.... But Pastor just plods on. Keeps driving fast. Then, when he spins, he does not concede he has lost the corner. 'I am Pastor Maldonado, I am the big Racing Driver, I am beyond spinning!' Instead of steering into the spin and having a harmless spin, he still tries to take the corner... and crashes into the barriers.
Typical.
Member
Posted 14 April 2015 - 17:39
Maldonado is literally worthless oustide his money bag. After four years of F1 experience, you at very least ought to do a better job than Marcus frickin' Ericcson.
Seriously, name one driver on the current grid who couldn't do a better job than him in that Lotus.
Member
Posted 14 April 2015 - 18:42
Well, that's the thing.
It is not like Pastor lacks speed. He has shown it plenty in his career.
He outraced Bottas in 2013 in head-to-head finishes.
He was fast throughout 2012, sitting in good positions in the Williams.
He was getting the better of Barrichello in late 2011.
And of course he is the GP2 champion.
But unfortunately his racecraft is not up to F1 standards. Too many simple errors and misjudgements here and there and this is letting him down badly.
Since the in season testing ban the only rookie against a non rookie teammate (18 in total) to finish ahead in head-to-head finishes was Kobayashi who raced a 39yo de la Rosa coming back after 3 years out of F1. So not really impressive, also together with Kobayashi, Bottas was the only rookie to outscore his non rookie teammate which looks very bad for Maldonado.
The only good season from Maldonado was 2012 and I believe thats more to do with BS losing almost all FP1 and being incapable of doing a good qualifying. BS still managed to tie in the head-to-head finishes.
Maldonado can be fast, but he lacks in everything else.
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 19:11
Maldonado is too petulant and erratic. I agree he has had some tough luck but all his woes are not due to bad luck alone. These days to have one uneventful weekend is an achievement for Pastor. Being quick is not enough you need to have the maturity and common sense foremost. He can be quick on his day but the way he was driving in Shanghai irrespective of issues he was having was akin to an amateur racing driver.
Edited by Quickshifter, 14 April 2015 - 19:12.
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 19:34
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 19:37
Think Grosjean is top class nowadays, would fancy him against anyone on the grid bar Alonso and Hamilton. Taking into account his starts, I'd even bet on him against Ricciardo.
I think that Grosjean has improved tremendously... but I fear he is not as good as Ricciardo, or Rosberg or even... dare I say it... Max Verstappen...
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 19:41
I think Ricciardo is slightly better in general, but his starts really let him down as everything else is brilliant. Rosberg? I think they would be evenly matched, but I see Grosjean as the better overtaker. I won't comment on Verstappen just yet...I think that Grosjean has improved tremendously... but I fear he is not as good as Ricciardo, or Rosberg or even... dare I say it... Max Verstappen...
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 19:50
Think Maldanado will be a Lotus (or any other team) driver next year?
Think Lotus will be a F-1 team next year still under current mis-management?
Just sayin'.
Edited by TIPO61, 14 April 2015 - 19:51.
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 19:50
Let me say that Grosjean is a mature, seasoned driver now... I would trust him with a top-car. But in the back of my mind I also think: because he is a protegé of Renault he has had A LOT of a chances in F1 to improve... a chance that Alguesari, Buemi, Bordais, Liuzzi never got... drivers who's raw talent I rate just as high as Grosjean's.
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 21:17
There's some truth to that, but his Renault appearance in 2009 was scarely a proper chance. Stepping into a dreadful car without so much as a test session against Alonso would make most drivers look like muppets and too much was made of his 2012 crashing spree, plenty of which were not his fault or racing incidents. The only serious misstep was causing that Spa pileup. The subsequent loss of confidence as a result of being humbled is a step too far for the likes of Maldonado (or Perez) to ever take.
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Posted 14 April 2015 - 21:26
I think that Grosjean has improved tremendously... but I fear he is not as good as Ricciardo, or Rosberg or even... dare I say it... Max Verstappen...
I doubt any rookie would do better than Grosjean over a season. But I wouldn't bet against a future MV.
Think Maldanado will be a Lotus (or any other team) driver next year?
Think Lotus will be a F-1 team next year still under current mis-management?
Just sayin'.
Maldonado will have a drive as long as he has his sponsors, and as soon as he lose it he will be out.
Member
Posted 14 April 2015 - 21:59
There's some truth to that, but his Renault appearance in 2009 was scarely a proper chance. Stepping into a dreadful car without so much as a test session against Alonso would make most drivers look like muppets and too much was made of his 2012 crashing spree, plenty of which were not his fault or racing incidents. The only serious misstep was causing that Spa pileup. The subsequent loss of confidence as a result of being humbled is a step too far for the likes of Maldonado (or Perez) to ever take.
He had a lot of small, inocuous incidents that bent the front wing, the kind of thing that you would normally consider just typical racing luck. But he had loads of them in a short space of time, then he had Spa. Then he nurfed Webber out of the Japanese GP after his ban. His start to 2013 wasn't great either, culminating in his crashfest of a Monaco weekend, when the car was fast enough to get up to the podium.
He was horribly over eager at the start of races and had/caused many incidents, but the big difference between himself and Maldonado is that he was able to accept that it was a problem and worked on fixing it. The result has been some excellent racing on his part.
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Posted 15 April 2015 - 07:25
He had a lot of small, inocuous incidents that bent the front wing, the kind of thing that you would normally consider just typical racing luck. But he had loads of them in a short space of time, then he had Spa. Then he nurfed Webber out of the Japanese GP after his ban. His start to 2013 wasn't great either, culminating in his crashfest of a Monaco weekend, when the car was fast enough to get up to the podium.
He was horribly over eager at the start of races and had/caused many incidents, but the big difference between himself and Maldonado is that he was able to accept that it was a problem and worked on fixing it. The result has been some excellent racing on his part.
Very well put! Better than I tried to express! 
Member
Posted 15 April 2015 - 07:42
MAL haters out in full force again...
His qualy pace is not the best atm.. but is race pace is usually better than GRO, was in 2014 so, and also against BOT in 2013.
AUS was not his fault and Maylaysia was "mixed fault" till a technical problem.
He did two very clean and skilled overtakes in China and raced a good race till the incident at pit entry, maybe it was already brake related or not, but after his subsequent spin there was a problem with his car (square tyres and brake by wire not 100%..? then brake fault retirement)...
I hope he will calm down a bit, relax and then rake in the fruits.
And he will be there as long as PDVSA is funding him.. in a Lotus , Sauber or FINDIA.
I personally would like to see him in the Ferrari. 
Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 15 April 2015 - 07:45.
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Posted 15 April 2015 - 07:52
We all like to bash Pastor for his crashes, but this time he really was just a victim in a car melee. Shame we didn't get any race comparison between the two drivers this time. So onto the next race!
Well as I told my Friend!
Wenn Button would have hit any other driver the blame would be on Button, but because he hit Maldonado in this case the blame is on Maldonado!!!
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Posted 15 April 2015 - 08:08
Let me say that Grosjean is a mature, seasoned driver now... I would trust him with a top-car. But in the back of my mind I also think: because he is a protegé of Renault he has had A LOT of a chances in F1 to improve... a chance that Alguesari, Buemi, Bordais, Liuzzi never got... drivers who's raw talent I rate just as high as Grosjean's.
For me Grosjean would perhaps make it just about into top 10 among the drivers on the current grid, close to the likes of Bottas, Hulkenberg and Massa. Which means that yes, he can be trusted in a top car. He did a rather solid job in the second half of 2013 by getting a string of podiums.
The pity is that Grosjean has lacked a serious benchmark since then. Maldonado isn't one. We do not know if the second half of 2013, where Grosjean actually matched/beat Raikkonen, is now really his standard performance, or just one period, where he happened to be "in the groove", but generally is still inconsistent.
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Posted 15 April 2015 - 09:19
If Maldonado bring in the speed of the 1st stint to every race as he showed in China, Grosjean will have his work cut out.
PM was on new options against RG's Qualifying options, but PM pulled out 2 over takes, and pulled of and undercut on RG
Qualifying PM is missing something in his last flying lap (as in 2012) but RG is doing a great job at it now
PM being a pay driver with speed, Williams will have him back in a heartbeat if he is available; not only Sauber and Force India
Edited by RA2, 15 April 2015 - 09:28.
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Posted 15 April 2015 - 09:31
PM being a pay driver with speed, Williams will have him back in a heartbeat if the is available; not only Sauber and Force India
I think in its current shape Williams wouldn't have a problem getting someone much better than Maldonado.
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Posted 15 April 2015 - 09:33
I think in its current shape Williams wouldn't have a problem getting someone much better than Maldonado.
like Bottas or Massa... and Massa is actually a paydriver
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