30 replies to this topic

[V8 Fireworks]

I'm hoping for qualifying on Saturday at the Australian GP!  Such a nice chap, and a world karting champion and FR3.5 champion.  Future Heikki Kovalainen!?

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 13 March 2015 - 09:42.

[lustigson]

I voted 'never' on both. Cause Sauber will go bankrupt over this, and no other team will ever have him again.

[DarthWillie]

Depends if his father in law is willing to pay

[FredrikB]

He will be paid to bugger off from Sauber and after that no one want's to sign him. Ever.

 

EDIT: And as lustigson writes, that could be the end of Sauber.

Edited by FredrikB, 13 March 2015 - 11:24.

[TIPO61]

In the Williams for the next race? "Stranger"...

[MikeV1987]

Depends how long the hostile takeover of the team takes. 

Edited by MikeV1987, 16 March 2015 - 21:32.

[Sin]

I voted 'Never' I rather meant 'Hopefully Never' tho

[William Hunt]

if a mechanic standing next to him farts he will take the team to court, teams don't like that.

[superden]

I'm hoping for qualifying on Saturday at the Australian GP! Such a nice chap, and a world karting champion and FR3.5 champion. Future Heikki Kovalainen!?

Reading some of your comments in relation to VdG over recent days, I have to ask, are you related? Or a member of his PR team? If not, that's one hell of a bromance you've got going on there.

[Spillage]

I'm hoping for qualifying on Saturday at the Australian GP!  Such a nice chap, and a world karting champion and FR3.5 champion.  Future Heikki Kovalainen!?

A future Kovalainen? What kind of aspiration is that? I want young drivers to be better than Kovalainen was. And better than van der Garde is too.

 

On topic, I have little interest and even less idea. Suspect we might see him in a Sauber sometime soon, but I hope it isn't at Nasr's expense.

[Kaiba]

I guess if he has paid for the seat then he should race, so I voted the next race, but I hope that Nasr stays to, though partly just so we can have a Massa and a Nasr on the grid

[William Hunt]

I'm hoping for qualifying on Saturday at the Australian GP!  Such a nice chap, and a world karting champion and FR3.5 champion.  Future Heikki Kovalainen!?

 

He seems more like a future Huub Rothengatter to me.

[William Hunt]

I'm hoping for qualifying on Saturday at the Australian GP!  Such a nice chap, and a world karting champion and FR3.5 champion.  Future Heikki Kovalainen!?

 

Well they with Ericsson they will run the future Stefan Johansson and with Felipe Nasr the future Felipe Massa, happy?

[ninetyzero]

I'm hoping for qualifying on Saturday at the Australian GP!  Such a nice chap, and a world karting champion and FR3.5 champion.  Future Heikki Kovalainen!?

 

Interesting how you say that like it's a good thing...

[givemeabettercar]

2016 New Jersey GP

[OSX]

Van der Garde: Sauber Contract Saga Should "Change F1"
5 April 2015

 

 

Giedo van der Garde has spoken out about pressing his claim against Sauber in Melbourne, and says the situation should never be allowed to happen again.

"I should have gone to the team and said 'Hello, I'm here to drive'," van der Garde told the Dutch magazine Formule 1. "But then I went to the motorhome and nobody said anything.

"All those people I worked with before, ignored me. Nobody looks at you and you think to yourself 'What's going on?'

"I don't know what the team told those guys, but if they are honest, they would acknowledge that they only received their salaries because of our early payment in 2014. And then suddenly we are the enemies, which is of course bullshit."

"Only the engineers behaved normally, saying 'If I was treated like that, I too would stand up for my rights'. It's nice when you get respect like that, including from many drivers and team bosses."

Full Story: Motorsport.com...saga-should-change-f1

[jjcale]

To be honest, I dont think he will ever drive anything again but ME is so shite I would not mind seeing him replace him.... Im pretty sure he would manage not to spin out after 2 laps.

Edited by jjcale, 06 April 2015 - 04:58.

[A3]

 

"I don't know what the team told those guys, but if they are honest, they would acknowledge that they only received their salaries because of our early payment in 2014. And then suddenly we are the enemies, which is of course bullshit."
 

 

And this is what it all comes down to.

 

 

Edited by A3, 06 April 2015 - 04:51.

[TIPO61]

For Kaltenborn to hold herself out as an attorney, and then to flaut the law so publicly in two different countries is beneath contempt.

 

She'll be Good Riddance and Zero Loss.

 

Sauber should be ashamed, VERY ASHAMED.

Edited by TIPO61, 06 April 2015 - 21:45.

[OvDrone]

Again, I am fully behind VdG's statements. Dude is proper class and if this whole scenario doesn't show his racing spirit, I don't know what does.

 

He should forgo F1, find some other series. Indycar, WEC, eh? Wishing him all the best.

 

Can't believe this is the same team that Kimi and Quick Nick made them my favorite underdog back in 2001.

[loki]

Again, I am fully behind VdG's statements. Dude is proper class and if this whole scenario doesn't show his racing spirit, I don't know what does.

 

He should forgo F1, find some other series. Indycar, WEC, eh? Wishing him all the best.

 

Can't believe this is the same team that Kimi and Quick Nick made them my favorite underdog back in 2001.

He'll not be in an F1 ride again.  I doubt anyone in Indycar would want him either.  He's naive to think filing suit like that wouldn't alienate the team.  He could have gotten the same result by going to a court in Switzerland and threatening to have the assets seized.   Right or wrong he created a bunch of stress and drama for those who weren't directly involved in the deal but still have their livelihoods dependent on the team.

[teejay]

The money he paid for his Sauber ride could run two Indycars for two seasons... with change.

 

He should go there.

[Sash1]

He has money and a corporate backer. Any team in need of money would sign him. But they also would not be so totally and utterly ignorant with the contract and the exit clauses for both parties. And unlike F1, many other parts of motorsport do respect laws and business agreements.

 

I'll turn it around. The way Sauber behaved and does business, you'd be a fool to sign a driver contract, employment contract or sponsorship contract with them as long as the current team management is running the show. No matter what you write in the contract or how many courts you have on your side, they will simply use the contracts as toilet paper when they feel the need to. Do people also cry about the livelihoods that are dependent on business worldwide in the cases where said businesses get huge fines or go bankrupt because of foolish or ignorant behaviour of management?

[ensign14]

Nothing will change because he wussed out.  Had he stood up to the establishment and Bernie then something would have changed.  Because team principals would not want to have followed Kaltenborn to the nick.  Or Bernie would not have wanted to see Sauber collapse because they would have been forced to take vdG back.  It would have been an assertion that F1 is subject to the law.  Next thing along would have been someone - maybe a Sauber creditor - complaining that the television deal is an unlawful cartel.

 

But vdG took a "multi-million euro" settlement.  From where did Sauber get this money?  If they relied on vdG to get through last season?  Almost certainly Bernie.  Cos he was frit. 

 

As it is, Sauber will limp on because there are still a thousand people who want to get to F1 and only a score of places.  Closed market.  No way for anyone else to jump in.  And Sauber are Bernie's mates.  Unlike Manor.  Although perhaps they ought to re-think where being Bernie's mates gets them.  Sauber allied with Ferrari and Red Bull to destroy the teams' organization and now they've been useful idiots they can be discarded.  FI and Enstone are caught in the crossfire.  The abyss is ever present.

[Lotusseven]

He has money and a corporate backer. Any team in need of money would sign him. But they also would not be so totally and utterly ignorant with the contract and the exit clauses for both parties. And unlike F1, many other parts of motorsport do respect laws and business agreements.

 

I'll turn it around. The way Sauber behaved and does business, you'd be a fool to sign a driver contract, employment contract or sponsorship contract with them as long as the current team management is running the show. No matter what you write in the contract or how many courts you have on your side, they will simply use the contracts as toilet paper when they feel the need to. Do people also cry about the livelihoods that are dependent on business worldwide in the cases where said businesses get huge fines or go bankrupt because of foolish or ignorant behaviour of management?

 

 

Apparently is Felipe Nasr ´s uncle part of the Sauber management if I have understood this blogpost right ,and Giedo van der Garde + his father in law corporates with Colin Colles.

 

And according to Karin Strum, Giedo van der Garde´s contract was teminated in October 2014. 

 

If I have to chose between "plague and cholera" I believe I prefer Sauber compared to VdG´s father in law and Colin Colles. 

Edited by Lotusseven, 07 April 2015 - 08:56.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

The only one coming out of this with any dignity is GVdG.

Kaltenborn has behaved disgustingly.

That said, I dont think any team will want to touch him now and sponsors will be wary too.

[Gilles4Ever]

Please keep to the topic, this is not a rehash of the GvdG vs Sauber thread.

[taran]

Van de Garde will likely never race in F1 again. He has said it is a closed chapter and most teams have their own reserve drivers in case their regular drivers can't compete. And $7m (his original sponsor package) isn't big enough to tempt F1 teams.

 

Unfortunately, he won't have much of a legacy in f1 either. He claims he hopes his misadventure will lead to changes in F1 but that will not happen.

Sacking a driver because a better (funded) driver became available has happened before and will happen again. Usually, the sacked driver is compensated and that's the end of it. Teams will certainly not blatently dismiss a driver without compensation again but then, Sauber was both desperate and stupid, traits which are not in short supply in the F1 paddock.

 

Had vd Garde forced the issue and taken the seat or forced the team to park a car (and it likely was not his call but his backers who likely preferred a guaranteed reimbursement instead of a uncertain season), he would have pushed Moneysha out of the team since she was adamant she wouldn't work with him. Now that would have gotten everyone's attention and led to a change in how F1 operates....Now, vd Garde will barely rate a footnote when the 2015 season is remembered.

[Nemo1965]

Apparently is Felipe Nasr ´s uncle part of the Sauber management if I have understood this blogpost right ,and Giedo van der Garde + his father in law corporates with Colin Colles.

 

And according to Karin Strum, Giedo van der Garde´s contract was teminated in October 2014. 

 

If I have to chose between "plague and cholera" I believe I prefer Sauber compared to VdG´s father in law and Colin Colles. 

 

It is quite remarkable how you keep trying to persist in changing the facts so that both parties in the controversy are equally to blame ('choosing between plague and cholera'). And that after for weeks you tried to change the facts in claiming the whole affair was all Van der Garde's fault... This not a matter of 'I think differently about the subject', this is just blatant ignoring of the facts.

 

Anyway.

 

I don't think that Van der Garde will drive in F1 again. Alas. I understand Taran and Ensign are disappointed he did not force the issue in Australia, but we were not in his shoes, were we? I hope Van der Garde will get a good spot in Formule E or the WEC.

[Talisman]

It would have been an assertion that F1 is subject to the law.  Next thing along would have been someone - maybe a Sauber creditor - complaining that the television deal is an unlawful cartel.

 

?

 

F1 IS subject to the law.  Always has been, always will be.

 

There is nothing revolutionary about the VdG case whatsoever.  I found his assertion that his problem would eventually lead to reforms protecting drivers laughable.  Everything worked exactly as it should.  He trod a well worn path following other drivers (and suppliers) before him who had to take legal action over contracts with F1 teams.  He will not be the last, in fact we know Sutil is doing the exact same thing.

 

He had a dispute with Sauber over contracts.  Nothing new there with two parties having a disagreement over contracts.  VdG took court action, Sauber lost but the whole situation was resolved with an out of court settlement.  His case pioneered nothing.  The only wonder is where Sauber got the money from for the alleged pay-off but I think that is linked to VdG's own assertion that he was finished in F1 despite having decent funding and not being that bad a driver.  The only thing remotely new about VdG's case is that he pursued it in such a public way.

 

As for complaining that the TV deal and the distribution of funds being an unlawful cartel, it isn't Sauber's creditors alleging that, its Sauber itself along with FI and Lotus in an open letter to FOM and that happened months before the VdG issue.

[Gilles4Ever]

Seems nobody want's to discuss the topic.