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Is now the time for 3 car teams?


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#1 mdaclarke

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:29

When I first started watching F1 in the early 90's Qualifying actually had a risk of not qualifying.  Some drivers missed out.  If we kept 9 teams and had 3 drivers per team then we would have 27 drivers going for 26 slots.  I believe 26 is the maximum starters allowed. 

 

I know people may say that 1 team may dominate the scoring positions, but when there were 6 points finishes 3 teams could take all the spots.  Now even with 3 cars per team, 3 teams couldn't take all the points.  

 

What does everyone think.  



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#2 SenorSjon

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:30

I think there is already a thread about this. ;)

#3 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:32

And as Red Bull I would say "Great, we are for it. And since we already have four cars we will take away one. Now it's up to the others." 

 

F1 in a nutshell 



#4 redraven9

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:33

Well if more teams pull the plug, I am happy to support this. Also, Alonso in the third Merc, one can dream.



#5 mdaclarke

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:34

It's not all about the top teams.  A race with just Mercedes and Ferrari and Mclaren and Red Bull would be boring.  We need full grids.  A lot of talented drivers are missing out.  



#6 BullHead

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:38

No

#7 JHSingo

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:39

Yeah, because what we really need is Mercedes locking out the top three positions, every race.

 

:rolleyes:



#8 ninetyzero

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:40

Yeah because Mercedes locking out the podium in virtually every race would be so much better wouldn't it? God knows what some people would be like if we had a race like Monaco '96.

 

*Edit* Damn you to hell JHSingo!


Edited by ninetyzero, 15 March 2015 - 13:41.


#9 ForzaGTR

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:49

Alonso in a 3rd Merc would be exciting, but only a temporary fix...



#10 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:52

We're getting very close to that line aren't we? I think its only a matter of time now unless drastic cost cutting measures are enforced.



#11 Paco

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 13:57

No. That simple. 3 car teams pretty much equals spec car racing which will never be f1. Who wants one team owning the podium.. Not me.

#12 hittheapex

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 14:29

3 car teams are supported by the bigger teams because it allows them to maintain their inequitable position of receiving extra money just for their history and turning up. They are as flush with money as the smaller teams even if they didn't score a single point this year.

 

Even if a middle team such as Force India has a great year and beats McLaren for example, they don't even get the same money, let alone more, because of the bonus payments to those bigger teams.

 

These bigger teams pay lip service to the financial problems of the sport but need to give up those payments for a solution to be found. The constructor bonuses can still be paid out according to position thus rewarding performance, but the pot needs to be made bigger.

 

If it isn't and the big teams just let the smaller ones go under, what we might have is a grid that could be smaller than 18 or 16 cars. Only McLaren, Ferrari and Williams could probably be counted upon as dead certs to turn up. Red Bull would probably stay but may well decide that 6 cars is excessive and run 3, (2 top drivers and a protege) thus taking a car off the grid and a spot for new talent. That's about 12. Mercedes takes it up to 15, assuming they stick around for another couple of years. Who else? Renault maybe, but they come and go (See below).

 

Then we struggle. Enstone, Force India and Sauber are already having a hard time fielding 2 cars let alone 3. How long would they last with 3 car teams?

 

What's worse, manufacturers come and go. F1 is inseparable from their marketing arm. Once the costs outweight the gains, they leave, even if they are doing quite well. And in times of dominance their exposure is going to be less if the dominant team locks out the podium. All of a sudden the big teams that thought 3 cars were a good idea don't like it so much when they aren't getting silverware.

 

In the heyday of the manufacturer era in the 2000s, there were not more than 6 manufacturers that competed as constructors rather than just engine suppliers. If F1 couldn't attract more than 3 manufacturers as engine suppliers under the current regulations, I really don't see how they are going to attract more full constructors than they have now, with the extra investment that goes with it.

 

Yes, F1 had 3 car teams back in the day. It was also an era where privateers could field their own single entries and the grid was boosted by these privateers, giving lots of up and coming drivers, and yes rich hobbyists too, their start. In other words, 3 car teams back then were not an indication of a formula that was struggling to survive.

 

F1 could also be more creative with its rules on sponsorship. Why does a team have to paint both its cars the same? Especially now we have the permanent numbers and the silly rule on helmet designs. If a team wants to do a BAR and paint each car different, great. Attract more corporations by giving them more options for marketing. Heck, we might even get some more colour on the grid, what's not to like? Allowing single car entries could help, too. Attract those who want to try but can't afford to run two cars. If they do well with one car, maybe they can attract investors and get enough funds together to run a second car.



#13 TheFish

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 14:33

It may need to happen soon but I hope it doesn't. Whilst it would be fine in years like 2012 and it could give us extra excitement if we had another top driver in the best team, it would be too **** for one other reason. Imagine who Ferrari would have had in the 3rd car in 2004 or Red Bull in 2013. Merc are an exception in letting their drivers race.

#14 Fastcake

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 14:54

There's never a time for three car teams.

We have twenty cars entered for the season. I too would prefer that to be higher, but it's still meeting the minimum number to look healthy. Providing they all start at least...

#15 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 14:56

I think the other question we need to ask is, is it still valid for the top ten to score points? I mean, that rule was brought in when 24 cars were on the grid back in 2010. Now, we're down to 18 cars (not counting Manor, they're not worth noting yet), which makes scoring points far too easy.



#16 TennisUK

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 15:04

Absolutely not.  It would just be shifting the problem down the line a year or two. What happens when say Sauber, or Force India (who can't afford to run a  third car anyway - go bust, and Lotus and McLaren end up being the slowest cars. Then they drop out, etc. It's not a solution that works in the long term and is deeply worrying that it's even being considered.

 

Instead prize money should be spread in a less top heavy manner so it's possible for teams other than the top 3 to run a competitive package. That doesn't mean the winners don't win more money than the team in tenth, but the current soltion, where Ferrari get paid more for just turning up than Lotus would for winning is clearly ridiculous.



#17 Tsarwash

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 15:11

The purpose built pit garages have I think been designed for 13 teams with two cars each, in some places it might become difficult to change this.

#18 mdaclarke

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 15:25

In respect of points I think top 10 has worked ok.  The cars are so so much more reliable than the 80s or 90s.  I like the current points system.  At least there's no double points this year!!



#19 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 16:21

No, it's time for more teams.



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#20 RealRacing

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 17:15

It depends. If they were to have three car teams, TOs would definitely have to be banned and the ban effectively enforced. If the idea of one driver being forced to support the other is disgusting for some of us, imagine how it would be with two ("Felipe and Jenson, Fernando is faster than you"). However, if they were allowed to race, 3 car teams would probably make things more competitive and, for the ones of us who are in this for the racing, create a better show. Let's face it, the way things are going this is starting to look like one of those GT races, with different categories on-track. The likes of Manor, Caterham and even, depending on the season, the Force Indias or the Saubers or the TRs, don't belong in this F1. So, if they are not able to make F1 more affordable to smaller teams so that they can effectively compete in front, which is not going to happen as the big teams and manufacturers have a firm grip on F1, then 3 car teams is the best alternative for improved racing.



#21 tempname11

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 18:45

Yes, except it should be 3 cars across all teams, not just the top teams.

 

I'm not sure why people think the midfielders/backmarkers wouldn't be able to afford it. Currently there's a lot of "unused" pay- or sponsor-bringing- drivers, who could step in and compensate for the third car expenses by bringing in money. Think Nasr, Ericsson and Van der Garde in the Saubers ;)

 

 

No, it's time for more teams.

How about more teams AND more cars? F1 would look much healthier with a grid of, say, 30, instead of today's pitiful 15.

 

The purpose built pit garages have I think been designed for 13 teams with two cars each, in some places it might become difficult to change this.

This is a problem :(



#22 Gemini

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 19:30

The purpose built pit garages have I think been designed for 13 teams with two cars each, in some places it might become difficult to change this.

 


 

This is a problem :(

 

Garages are good for 3 cars. 15 years ago they had two race cars and spare car ready go on track, all in same garages.

 

Now they bring a lot of stuff into the garage area, like double computers walls with lots of people on both sides, simply becasue they have a lot of free space.

 

Even Manor was having garage big enough in Melbourne to work on 3 cars.


Edited by Gemini, 15 March 2015 - 19:30.


#23 William Hunt

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 21:27

and a podium with three Mercedes drivers: NO


Edited by William Hunt, 16 March 2015 - 21:28.


#24 Risil

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 21:31

and a podium with three Mercedes drivers: NO

 

Maybe teams could have three cars but no extra engines? That would thin out their numbers a little.