36 replies to this topic

[AustinF1]

Nasr, Sainz, Verstappen all looked fantastic all weekend. Quick, smart, consistent, composed. I can see all of these kids sticking around for a long time and being big, big stars.

 

Thoughts?

[A3]

Yes.

[Jimisgod]

Will there be anywhere for them to go in F1 as it currently is?

[DutchQuicksilver]

Verstappen and Nasr will stay. Verstappen is destined to move up to Red Bull and Nasr will have more than enough sponsorship behind him with Banco do Brasil to become the new Maldonado.

 

Sainz on the other hand, I'd give him two or three season at Toro Rosso and then it's over like it happened with Vergne, Buemi and Alguersuari.

[Seanspeed]

Verstappen and Nasr will stay. Verstappen is destined to move up to Red Bull and Nasr will have more than enough sponsorship behind him with Banco do Brasil to become the new Maldonado.
 
Sainz on the other hand, I'd give him two or three season at Toro Rosso and then it's over like it happened with Vergne, Buemi and Alguersuari.

If Sainz continues to perform well, even if he doesn't get taken on by the senior Red Bull team, other teams could well be interested.

[rmpugh]

Verstappen and Nasr will stay. Verstappen is destined to move up to Red Bull and Nasr will have more than enough sponsorship behind him with Banco do Brasil to become the new Maldonado.

 

Sainz on the other hand, I'd give him two or three season at Toro Rosso and then it's over like it happened with Vergne, Buemi and Alguersuari.

Sainz outperformed Verstappen all weekend. Nasr was amazing. Verstappen was OK. Overhyped kid.

[Seanspeed]

Sainz outperformed Verstappen all weekend.

Not really. And Max was every bit as good as Sainz was today. Would have had a good chance of finishing ahead actually.

Edited by Seanspeed, 15 March 2015 - 15:15.

[rmpugh]

Not really. And Max was every bit as good as Sainz was today. Would have had a good chance of finishing ahead actually.

FP1, FP2, FP3, Quali and race.

 

How much more could he outperform him? Also, only had a chance of finishing ahead because of the pitstop problems. Otherwise constantly behind.

Edited by rmpugh, 15 March 2015 - 15:18.

[DutchQuicksilver]

If Sainz continues to perform well, even if he doesn't get taken on by the senior Red Bull team, other teams could well be interested.

Sainz doesn't bring any sponsorship, so if he's kicked out of the Red Bull program, I doubt the likes of Lotus, Sauber or Force India would be interested.

[Seanspeed]

FP1, FP2, FP3, Quali and race.
 
How much more could he outperform him?

I'm going by actually watching the sessions and not just going by what it says on Wikipedia.

[Seanspeed]

Sainz doesn't bring any sponsorship, so if he's kicked out of the Red Bull program, I doubt the likes of Lotus, Sauber or Force India would be interested.

There's also Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Williams. Teams will go for him if he's good enough. Hulkenberg isn't exactly bringing loads of sponsorship money, for example.

[rmpugh]

I'm going by actually watching the sessions and not just going by what it says on Wikipedia.

Not wikipedia, actually watching the sessions and seeing Verstappen getting beaten in EVERY session.

[extremeday]

I've noticed that Sainz Jr is quite underrated in this forum.

 

People talking constantly about Verstappen, the kid. Have you people noticed that Sainz is a kid too? that he suffers from lack of experience too? Up to now, I´ve seen nothing to state that some of these drivers will succeed in F1 and some others will fail to reach their goals. Many things can happen in future races. Maybe none of them will succeed, maybe all of them, maybe some of them.

[Seanspeed]

Not wikipedia, actually watching the sessions and seeing Verstappen getting beaten in EVERY session.

Only what it says on the final results page. But they often don't tell the whole story.

I've noticed that Sainz Jr is quite underrated in this forum.

People talking constantly about Verstappen, the kid. Have you people noticed that Sainz is a kid too? that he suffers from lack of experience too?

I think most people are aware Sainz is talented and still a rookie.

I also think many people already have a grudge against Max because people don't like when people get hyped up. They get this need to shoot them down.

Edited by Seanspeed, 15 March 2015 - 15:26.

[RubberKubrick]

Nasr, Sainz, Verstappen all looked fantastic all weekend. Quick, smart, consistent, composed. I can see all of these kids sticking around for a long time and being big, big stars.

Thoughts?

Yes indeed, one of them could really be the next best thing unlike all the rookies from previous seasons way back since 2007 (i.e. Hamilton).

[MastaKink]

Only what it says on the final results page. But they often don't tell the whole story.

 

As far as Qualy goes Sainz won that on merit, Max made a mistake.

 

The race is anyone's guess because of the pit stop and then Max's retirement.

[rmpugh]

Only what it says on the final results page. But they often don't tell the whole story.

I think most people are aware Sainz is talented and still a rookie.

I also think many people already have a grudge against Max because people don't like when people get hyped up. They get this need to shoot them down.

Of course they don't tell the whole story. However, being beaten in EVERY session sort of makes a mockery of saying he is better. Are you Dutch by any chance?

[Seanspeed]

As far as Qualy goes Sainz won that on merit, Max made a mistake.

Sure. But its not fair to say that Sainz outperformed Max 'all weekend'. They were very closely matched if you actually paid attention.

Of course they don't tell the whole story. However, being beaten in EVERY session sort of makes a mockery of saying he is better. Are you Dutch by any chance?

I never said Max was better this weekend. Just that he wasn't outperformed all weekend like you said he was.

And no, not Dutch. But I see you're already aiming to try and find some way to dismiss my comments by alternative means. Classy.

Edited by Seanspeed, 15 March 2015 - 15:29.

[Jimisgod]

Verstappen and Nasr will stay. Verstappen is destined to move up to Red Bull and Nasr will have more than enough sponsorship behind him with Banco do Brasil to become the new Maldonado.

 

Sainz on the other hand, I'd give him two or three season at Toro Rosso and then it's over like it happened with Vergne, Buemi and Alguersuari.

 

Someone's bitter after their driver got beat.

[rmpugh]

Sure. But its not fair to say that Sainz outperformed Max 'all weekend'. They were very closely matched if you actually paid attention.

I never said Max was better this weekend. Just that he wasn't outperformed all weekend like you said he was.

And no, not Dutch. But I see you're already aiming to try and find some way to dismiss my comments by alternative means. Classy.

They were closely matched. But with Carlos outperforming him all weekend. I didn't say by a massive amount, but clearly the fact that Carlos beat him in every single session means that he outperformed him.

[LuckyStrike1]

Vergne beat Ricciardo, i:e outperformed him, but they were closely matched. Fortunes turned out rather differently though. 

 

Would I bet on anything I would bet on Verstappen moving onwards and upwards while Sainz would join the ranks of Vergne, Buemi, Alguersuari et al. 

 

But the bigger question is what kind of F1 there will be left for them and how it will look at that time... 

[DutchQuicksilver]

Someone's bitter after their driver got beat.

Who? Oh you mean me? No you got it wrong, I'm not a fan of Verstappen, didn't like his old man because of his attitude and so far his son isn't being modest either.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 15 March 2015 - 15:53.

[Seanspeed]

They were closely matched. But with Carlos outperforming him all weekend. I didn't say by a massive amount, but clearly the fact that Carlos beat him in every single session means that he outperformed him.

Results sheet doesn't tell the whole story. Like in FP2. Max was faster on their fast runs on mediums. Then before he got to do any soft runs, he faced some issue that stopped him from running the rest of the session. So just because Sainz got out and did a time that was inevitably faster on the soft tire doesn't mean he 'outperformed' him there.

There really wasn't anything between them this weekend. Yet you wanted to try and justify your 'overhyped kid' comment, obviously.

[Jackmancer]

Sainz doesn't bring any sponsorship, so if he's kicked out of the Red Bull program, I doubt the likes of Lotus, Sauber or Force India would be interested.

 

Cespa?

[noikeee]

Carlos and Max have benefitted from a clearly very competitive car that looks almost on par with the Red Bulls, and Nasr has benefitted from not only an equally competitive car, but also an unbelievably inept team-mate (where on earth has gone Marcus' talent?? He used to be rated pretty highly in his F3 days but now he's almost Lavaggi-esque  ), but it was still a fantastic weekend from all 3 with very few mistakes when it mattered (Carlos spun once or twice in free practices but those don't really matter). Remember none of them had ever drove in Melbourne!! I wrote a few days ago on a thread about the rookies that this was a "deceptively strong bunch" and they have proved me absolutely correct, which is something that never happens so forgive me for being smug. 

 

Nasr looks like he's forgotten his underwhelming years of GP2 and gone back to being the killer driver he was at lower level. That was one of the best debut races I've seen in a long time. I'm gonna need him to beat a team-mate that actually matters to convince me fully, but he's still got the time (and all the money in the world) to confirm his earlier potential and become a proper star. Don't completely rule that out.

 

As for Max, I'm pretty sure none of the drivers in the grid would've been as competitive and error-free (apart from that little tankslapper in Q2) as he looked like this weekend at the age of 17. I agree with Sean here, there wasn't an awful lot between him and Carlos, last time I looked at live timing he was 5 seconds behind Carlos after starting much behind and IIRC on the mediums whereas Carlos was on softs (not 100% sure on that?). It's still 1-0 to Sainz on my book but hardly a convincing 1-0. The kid's extremely impressive, just give him time, there isn't much of a point on overanalysing his performance to the tenths. Remember Vettel's debut race with BMW Sauber at the age of 19? It was then spun into something positive as he scored a point, but he was absolutely nowhere near Heidfeld. And look how good he became. Max's debut race looked better than Vettel's already.

Edited by noikeee, 15 March 2015 - 15:59.

[Requiem84]

Of course they don't tell the whole story. However, being beaten in EVERY session sort of makes a mockery of saying he is better. Are you Dutch by any chance?

 

Sainz did a very good job no doubt. But on a stint where he was on the faster softer tire, he could only pull out a gap of 6 seconds in 24 laps (difference of less than 0,3 per lap). Had Verstappen's engine not broken down and hadn't Sainz had his pitstop issue, they would have finished very close together. Also note that MV drove a 34 lap stint on the harder tire, whilste being fastest in his 33rd lap. 

 

I'm Dutch, but being unbiased I give this weekend to Sainz 1-0. However, the margin is smaller than appears from the timesheets. 

[Elba]

Nasr, Sainz, Verstappen all looked fantastic all weekend. Quick, smart, consistent, composed. I can see all of these kids sticking around for a long time and being big, big stars.

 

Thoughts?

I quite agree we should enjoy this class of 2015 rookies.

Kudoos to Red Bull too for sticking with their junior program/philosophy 

[Flexa]

Considering it was also down to how strategy played, but STR seemed to lose some pace during the race, I thought it was great for a rookie Sainz to keep up with a RBR of Ric and a Ferrari of Kimi for some time, I'd give him credits for that !!

 

 

(...)Nasr will have more than enough sponsorship behind him with Banco do Brasil to become the new Maldonado.

 

 

Ouch!

Edited by Flexa, 15 March 2015 - 16:03.

[noikeee]

It sounds damning to say "Nasr is the new Maldonado" but if he keeps his performance like this, he's going to be the wet dream of any team that needs a paydriver. Maldonado was worth it because he pays his weight in gold and is pretty quick, but makes (many) mistakes. Nasr is all of that bar the mistakes (he's well known to be very consistent), and might prove himself possibly even quicker. I don't want to commit myself to many predictions just yet, but I can imagine a bright future...

Edited by noikeee, 15 March 2015 - 16:21.

[A3]

Verstappen was OK. Overhyped kid.

Sainz was 0.25 secs faster than Max in Q2, in the lap where Max made his mistake. that mistake was worth more than 0.25 secs. In Q1 Max was 4 tenths quicker.

In the race, Max could keep the gap to Sainz small on the harder tyre.

Yes, Sainz beat Max this weekend, but Max was way better than just 'ok'.

Edited by A3, 15 March 2015 - 16:22.

[Exb]

Great debut by all 3! I was a bit worried after watching Sainz in testing that he would be a bit out of his depth as he seemed to struggle and was very scruffy at times but he did a really good job today, as did Verstappen. There is no doubt Verstappen is lacking experience compared to most F1 rookies BUT, as long as Red Bull give him the time, he should have most room for improvement - and as his level is already very high he should be something special. Nasr impressed me at testing and has further cemented that view this weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing how all 3 progress as all 3 seem talented enough to be on the grid, regardless of sponsors.

[A3]

The problem with the cars of Sainz and Verstappen is that it is a sitting duck on the straights. Car seems to have tons of mechanical grip and downforce, but even with DRS enabled Sainz couldn't keep up with a Force India. This is going to be a problem at the faster circuits.

[SpartanChas]

Cespa?

 

They came on board while Alguersuari was there and didn't leave when he was dropeed.

[ANF]

It sounds damning to say "Nasr is the new Maldonado" but if he keeps his performance like this, he's going to be the wet dream of any team that needs a paydriver. Maldonado was worth it because he pays his weight in gold and is pretty quick, but makes (many) mistakes. Nasr is all of that bar the mistakes (he's well known to be very consistent), and might prove himself possibly even quicker. I don't want to commit myself to many predictions just yet, but I can imagine a bright future...

Yep. With a bit of luck he could be the new Heidfeld with a better seat.

[PlatenGlass]

The rookies looked OK, but generally speaking it's easier to look good nowadays than in the past. Gone are the days when some drivers are a second plus off the pace. Most drivers are within a few tenths, so at a first glance, most drivers will look quite good.

[WilliamsF1Fan]

They drove fairly well although the depleted field surely helped somewhat by having fewer opportunities for collisions.  That said, if they carry on like this all season, I'll be impressed.  Nasr was excellent today though, he looked very composed.

[thuGG]

I'm with Seanspeed on this and noikeee as usual produced a very good post.