226 replies to this topic

[loki]

I can only dream of an F1 where all of the teams have the attitude that Williams have.

 

Ah well.

That's because Sir Frank is a racer and has been his adult life.  Mateschitz  is a businessman that likes racing.  Two very different things.  Racers keep charging ahead when all looks bleak.  Booth, Lowden, Kolles, Campos, all racers.  Fernandez, Carrabante, Mateschitz, businessmen that use racing as promotion.

[Elba]

Red Bull chief Dietrich Mateschitz reiteates Formula 1 quit threat.

 

I don't see any better way to force real change over papering over the cracks.

Nicely timed just after Marko's words some weeks ago and with Bernie's today

The game is on 

[63Corvette]

redbull don't build engines. Like McLaren don't build engines.

 

The argument fails one basic test: Red Bull's advantage could always be eroded by a rival TEAM. Redbull is powerless to erode Merc's PU advantage. And further to that their supplier is limited from attempting to.

 

But I believe McLaren DO in fact build engines...............................................just not F1 engines (or Power Units) as they are called today)

[mclarensmps]

That's because Sir Frank is a racer and has been his adult life.  Mateschitz  is a businessman that likes racing.  Two very different things.  Racers keep charging ahead when all looks bleak.  Booth, Lowden, Kolles, Campos, all racers.  Fernandez, Carrabante, Mateschitz, businessmen that use racing as promotion.

 

I would argue that McLaren, Ferrari, and to a much lesser degree Sauber (as in Peter Sauber) are also in that list with Williams and Frank. 

[Redzone]

Red bull, like car manufacturers, are in the business to sell their product,

 

If they are at the back of the pack, twaddling around like the Red Bull boost, has lost its boost (pun intended),

 

then

 

 

Sooner or later, the bean counters are gonna pull the plug.

 

And now with Vettel gone and Newey doing whatever, they are already thinking that they should spend their advertising dollars elsewhere, cause bottom line, that is what the team is to them: Advertizing mechanism to sell their product

Edited by Redzone, 09 April 2015 - 22:02.

[paulogman]

Red Bull chief Dietrich Mateschitz reiteates Formula 1 quit threat.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass

And take that whining baby Christian Horner with you

[V8 Fireworks]

 

He'd be a consultant; why would he be forced? An eminent developer with an enviable track record like he has? Half of Ilmor, in their time?

 

 

It means that Ilien was "forced" upon Renault, who were not pleased...

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 10 April 2015 - 01:03.

[ch103]

Don't let the door hit you on the ass

And take that whining baby Christian Horner with you

 

Completely agree with you.  See ya later Red Bull.

[TDC Racing]

Don't let the door hit you on the ass

And take that whining baby Christian Horner with you

 

As a redbull follower, I fully agree. This is very disappointing behaviour from the redbull camp

 

At least if they do pull the plug, The silver lining is Dan can move to a team that wants to race instead of having it handed on a plate

[aramos]

That's because Sir Frank is a racer and has been his adult life.  Mateschitz  is a businessman that likes racing.  Two very different things.  Racers keep charging ahead when all looks bleak.  Booth, Lowden, Kolles, Campos, all racers.  Fernandez, Carrabante, Mateschitz, businessmen that use racing as promotion.

 

If they wanted to quit they would quit. They're merely using quitting as a bargaining tool to try and bring about engine reform. This is very obvious.

[Murl]

If they wanted to quit they would quit. They're merely using quitting as a bargaining tool to try and bring about engine reform. This is very obvious.

 

 

Obvious but very very boring.

 

Losing fans by the minute.They need to pull finger, develop the car, find some horsepower and STFU while they do it.

 

Winning is sexy. Racing is sexy. Whining is loser stuff, will not sell fizzy drinks.

[aramos]

Obvious but very very boring.

 

Losing fans by the minute.They need to pull finger, develop the car, find some horsepower and STFU while they do it.

 

Winning is sexy. Racing is sexy. Whining is loser stuff, will not sell fizzy drinks.

 

Obviously wining isn't their game plan, their game plan is to get engine regulations changed so that they can win, which is what they want. Its like people in here can't see more than 2 weeks into the future. Everything Red Bull are doing is with the goal of winning long term.

[Murl]

Obviously wining isn't their game plan, their game plan is to get engine regulations changed so that they can win, which is what they want. Its like people in here can't see more than 2 weeks into the future. Everything Red Bull are doing is with the goal of winning long term.

 

 

I get it.

 

Brand association for Red Bull now = inability to compete at the top level.

 

They should stick to America's Cup where they do get to write the rule book.

The idea of them simply buying F1 makes more sense, that way they can be sure to win every time.

[Rocket73]

Mercedes are no different it's just that they are winning atm.  They have said a few times that they wouldn't be in it if the engine wasn't as they wanted it. They had a hand in the present PU regs and are benefitting because of it.

 

Don't get me wrong I disagree with this completely but let's not pretend that it's just Red Bull that has this stance.

[SenorSjon]

Some people around here seem to forget Ferrari also has a long history of threats to leave F1. Red Bull has 4-5 cars to leverage. Without them, the field would be very meagre.

 

And I repeat myself, Red Bull has been in the sport since at least the mid '90's (they appeared on the Sauber sidepods around that time). I find the flak around here amazing for a company that has been around for 20+ of the 65 years of F1. Not many companies have such a long uninterrupted history in F1. They survived multiple car companies and have seen Renault go, come, go and possibly come again.

 

I'm in no way a fan of the team or the drink, but I do recognize the billions they poured in F1.

[learningtobelost]

Some people around here seem to forget Ferrari also has a long history of threats to leave F1. Red Bull has 4-5 cars to leverage. Without them, the field would be very meagre.

 

And I repeat myself, Red Bull has been in the sport since at least the mid '90's (they appeared on the Sauber sidepods around that time). I find the flak around here amazing for a company that has been around for 20+ of the 65 years of F1. Not many companies have such a long uninterrupted history in F1. They survived multiple car companies and have seen Renault go, come, go and possibly come again.

 

I'm in no way a fan of the team or the drink, but I do recognize the billions they poured in F1.

 

The attitude to the Ferrari threats was similar. Whining in public isn't a great marketing strategy.

Having a long term association with the sport shouldn't offer a company immunity from criticism. Red Bull are catching flack because they are are acting in a manor that deserves it.

[balmybaldwin]

https://willthef1jou...to-quit-let-it/
 
the smack down, as they say.

That is the most coherent and wellwritten pieces on f1 I have seen in years

[WilliamsFan25]

That's because Sir Frank is a racer and has been his adult life.  Mateschitz  is a businessman that likes racing.  Two very different things.  Racers keep charging ahead when all looks bleak.  Booth, Lowden, Kolles, Campos, all racers.  Fernandez, Carrabante, Mateschitz, businessmen that use racing as promotion.

 

Don't compare Booth, Lowden and Kolles to Sir Frank. That's disrespectful to Williams.

[DaddyCool]

Sad thing is that *something* will be done in favor of Red Bull, because ta the moment F1 needs RBR and STR more than vice versa.

[goingthedistance]

Some people around here seem to forget Ferrari also has a long history of threats to leave F1. Red Bull has 4-5 cars to leverage. Without them, the field would be very meagre.

 

And I repeat myself, Red Bull has been in the sport since at least the mid '90's (they appeared on the Sauber sidepods around that time). I find the flak around here amazing for a company that has been around for 20+ of the 65 years of F1. Not many companies have such a long uninterrupted history in F1. They survived multiple car companies and have seen Renault go, come, go and possibly come again.

 

I'm in no way a fan of the team or the drink, but I do recognize the billions they poured in F1.

 

I feel the same. I've never been a fan of Red Bull the team, though I have supported a couple of their drivers over the years. But the nasty "don't let the door hit you on the way out" brigade seem to be very short sighted to me. This is a brand with a long standing association with the sport, that currently owns two teams on an already dwindling grid and funds one of the best races on the calendar. I think the attitude must stem from envy, from a dislike of the team because of their prior dominance. I can't understand why else there is so much cattiness. 

 

For me the key is that Red Bull are backed into a corner and are most likely unable to make themselves competitive no matter who they hire or how much they spend. Neither of Ferrari or Mercedes will ever supply Red Bull with a PU as long as they aspire to be a front running team. And Renault have made a dog of an engine that likely will never recover without regulation change or an equalisation movement. 

 

Do people expect a team in that situation to go quietly? I am a McLaren fan and I'd be very disappointed if they just quietly departed from the sport if they were in the same situation. Going public is usually the last resort for a team in this sort of situation. 

[zztopless1]

Brand association for Red Bull now = inability to compete at the top level.

 

Maybe for the tiny minority of hardcore fans that follow F1 enough to read dedicated motorsport news sites.  Most people don't and would have no idea about F1 politics.

[Jon83]

Don't really understand the dislike for RBR myself.

 

They've been a great team and have produced some absolutely stunning cars, operating within some extremely tight regulations and with limited testing.

 

IMO, F1 would be a lesser place without them at the moment. They've given young, talented drivers opportunities that others haven't or maybe couldn't.

[Murl]

Don't really understand the dislike for RBR myself.

 

They've been a great team and have produced some absolutely stunning cars, operating within some extremely tight regulations and with limited testing.

 

IMO, F1 would be a lesser place without them at the moment. They've given young, talented drivers opportunities that others haven't or maybe couldn't.

 

 

I think the dislike is because they want wins and championships handed to them.

 

Is that something worthy respect, an attitude that a sporting team would display?

[Kyo]

I think the dislike is because they want wins and championships handed to them.

 

Is that something worthy respect, an attitude that a sporting team would display?

Everyone want championships handed to them, but that is certainly not what Red Bull is asking/lobbing for. They are asking for a regulation that establish parity between engines since they are not engine manufacturers.

 

I don't see how this is any different for all the lobbing/quit threats done by Renault and Mercedes in favor of the actual regulations.

[Petroltorque]

Red Bull have a relatively short racing pedigree. They have only existed as team owners since 2005. I see them as a mouth piece for Ecclestone. Marks and Horner remain in lock step with Ecclestone's pronouncements. Aggressively lobbying for rule changes to gain advantage has been Red Bull's métier. We saw it with Pirelli and they have now moved their ire onto Renault. If RBR were serious about F1 success they would be looking to forge a new partnership with an engine builder. Mark Gallagher made an interesting point today. Red Bull sit within spitting distance of Cosworth, who have a hybrid electric PU on the books. A PU, which, according to published article in Race Engine Technology is putting out 775bhp. It's not beyond the ken of Mateschitz to fund an independent program and have absolute integration between chassis and PU.

[Jon83]

I think the dislike is because they want wins and championships handed to them.

 

Is that something worthy respect, an attitude that a sporting team would display?

 

When have they wanted a championship handed to them? 

[Graveltrappen]

Apparently cosworth have a tasty F1 hybrid power unit ready to go... redbull should be knocking on that door before their current one gets slammed in their face