83 replies to this topic

[V8 Fireworks]

Apparently the Renault contract expires   

[Jimisgod]

We can watch Audi embarrass itself like Honda. /s

[khatibrifath]

The way they are criticizing renault i dont think anyone will supply engines to them.....only option for them is cosworth

[age]

Think that whatever happens,  Red Bull is on a downward spiral.  If I was Ricciardo, I would be looking to move teams.  Could he end up at Ferrari replacing Kimi?

[KingTiger]

Could see another team trap themselves with crappy Honda engines. 

[age]

maybe Red Bull can make their own engines using Recycled Red Bull cans?  ;p

Edited by age, 16 March 2015 - 03:35.

[paulogman]

I hope renault tell them what to do with their attitude and buy either sauber or force india to be their new factory team.

[lbennie]

I hope renault tell them what to do with their attitude and buy either sauber or force india to be their new factory team.

 

I can't see either of those teams going near renault at the moment. would be a massive downgrade from customer merc/fezza

[fZero]

I was thinking all race yesterday how long it would take RB to get up to speed with an Audi engine, so I voted Audi. Renault will most likely be uncompetitive until the next big rule change.

 

From looking at Ferrari's and Honda's performance this formula needs at least 1 season to essentially test the engine. So if RB does switch it could be 2017 or 2018 until they are competitive again.

 

This engine development freeze is a great way to waste good talent like Ricciardo and Alonso

Edited by fZero, 16 March 2015 - 04:49.

[Clrnc]

They have only Renault as an option. Ferrari is hardly going to be any benefit for them and Honda has an agreement with Mclaren to be exclusive. 

[travbrad]

I know which engines they WANT, but I think hell will become an arctic tundra before Mercedes or Ferrari give them their engines.       Ferrari apparently didn't even want STR to have a look at their PU, let alone RBR.  It seems like RBR is basically hosed until they change engine regulations again, since the regulations for this formula are just going to get more and more strict (regarding engine/PU) as the years go on.

 

Ferrari did make a big step forward with their PU this year though, so I suppose Renault just has to hope they can pull off something similar with the tokens they have left + develop over the next winter.

[teejay]

They have only Renault as an option. Ferrari is hardly going to be any benefit for them and Honda has an agreement with Mclaren to be exclusive. 

 

For 2015 only.

[itsnoe30]

Honda or Renault are their only options. They need to be as close to "works" team as possible, and that won't happen with Merc or Ferrari.

[r4mses]

Looking at Honda's problems, I doubt they're better off with a new VW/Audi/Bugatti/Lambo/...-labeled or US-engine (shame we don't have one in F1 for years). Mercedes and Ferrari will not supply a team which pretty sure will become a serious contender. So RB better stfu and stop blaming Renault.

[teejay]

Merc supplied McLaren for years without issue, and they did have the ability to compete.

[wonk123]

I keep thinking they will buy Renault IP then get Ilmor to develop it without any restrictions and name it a redbuLl engine. Not sure if this is even legal

[hollowstar]

Think that whatever happens,  Red Bull is on a downward spiral.  If I was Ricciardo, I would be looking to move teams.  Could he end up at Ferrari replacing Kimi?

 

I have a feeling Vettel would not let that happen 

 

Honda will not look like an attractive option to Red Bull, it would be more of the same. Actually, more of even worse. 

 

Maybe Red Bull will buy Cosworth or something. 

Edited by hollowstar, 16 March 2015 - 05:51.

[FPV GTHO]

I'm pretty sure the Porsche LMP V4 was developed initially to meet the new F1 regs, so Audi could potentially re engineer it back to meet the regulations or at least develop a new engine based on it. Their diesel V6 won't be of any help there.

[Gorma]

Am I the only who thinks that the criticism is justified? No matter how you look at it Renault screwed up big time and not just once. The first engine last year didn't even last one lap. One year after that the engine is still underpowered and unreliable. It could still be too heavy, too large and too thirsty. Like McLaren they are too big of a threath to Mercedes and Ferrari for them to supply engines. Unless Renault get better or engines are equalized there is no point in competing. They are in it yo win it and at the moment it isn't possible. I'd hate to see two teams go because of that.

[lbennie]

Am I the only who thinks that the criticism is justified?

 

 

Not at all matey, this place is just extremely anti-red bull, as soon as Horner opens his mouth it gets jumped on.

[Ferrari2183]

Am I the only who thinks that the criticism is justified? No matter how you look at it Renault screwed up big time and not just once. The first engine last year didn't even last one lap. One year after that the engine is still underpowered and unreliable. It could still be too heavy, too large and too thirsty. Like McLaren they are too big of a threath to Mercedes and Ferrari for them to supply engines. Unless Renault get better or engines are equalized there is no point in competing. They are in it yo win it and at the moment it isn't possible. I'd hate to see two teams go because of that.

Everybody is in it to win it... But are more restrictions really the answer here?

 

Horner has come up with some rather crazy suggestions lately like restricting HP, banning the use of wind tunnels and standard processors or whatever the hell he was referring to with regard to CFD. It's bordering on ludicrous as it is already and these suggestions will make me turn my back on F1 for sure.

[Slackbladder]

Am I the only who thinks that the criticism is justified? No matter how you look at it Renault screwed up big time and not just once. The first engine last year didn't even last one lap. One year after that the engine is still underpowered and unreliable. It could still be too heavy, too large and too thirsty. Like McLaren they are too big of a threath to Mercedes and Ferrari for them to supply engines. Unless Renault get better or engines are equalized there is no point in competing. They are in it yo win it and at the moment it isn't possible. I'd hate to see two teams go because of that.

I think it's more the issue that Horner/rb are airing their dirty laundry in public. Red bull are the works engine so it should be a partnership

[Kalmake]

They have only Renault as an option. Ferrari is hardly going to be any benefit for them and Honda has an agreement with Mclaren to be exclusive. 

There are no exclusive deals. If somebody wants Hondas next year, they have to supply up to 3 or 4 teams.

[r4mses]

Merc supplied McLaren for years without issue, and they did have the ability to compete.

 

They supplied them for years while they had been their only or prime team - sure. However once Mercedes had their own works team, they just fulfilled an earlier sigend agreement. 

 

Do you believe Mercedes puts their chances of winning the championship(s) as a 100% works team at stake by supplying engines to their - looking at recent F1 history - most capable title contender? I doubt. It's one thing to supply engines to Force India, Lotus and Williams who, as recent history indicates, might snatch a lucky GP win or being the saviour of Brawn (of whom none outside the team had an idea before the car turned wheels)...but Redbull... who, by the way, don't look like easy partners when things don't go perfectly smooth :x

Edited by r4mses, 16 March 2015 - 06:55.

[RA2]

F1 is in a hole with these new regulations

 

The development time required for these hybrid systems are nothing short of 3 years

 

Some regulation change is needed to get this time down to a year or so to make F1 entry to new manufacturers more attractive

 

A MJ class system as in LMP1 would be wonderful

 

> all cars with a minimum of 2 MJ and 100 kg/race and 100kg/hr

 

> all more than 2 MJ class has a fuel penalty either in fuel flow or race quota

Edited by RA2, 16 March 2015 - 07:03.

[MikeV1987]

Tbh I would love to see Audi come in and Renault to go back to Enstone.

[Disgrace]

He's just one phone-call away...

 

[kpastri]

A few weeks ago I was certain that Renault would buy Red Bull and make it a works team. I'm not so sure any more. Although the time isn't right, I can see Audi taking the big decision.

 

IMO Renault was a very big part of Red Bull success and has received very little credit for it. Maybe their new PU is not as good as Mercedes and Ferrari but I think Red Bull should show some respect to their long time partner.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

F1 is in a hole with these new regulations

 

The development time required for these hybrid systems are nothing short of 3 years

 

And you mean ONLY Mercedes took the time to develop early?

 

Looking at Ferrari it does seem to prove that you can develop and make up some time...

[F1ultimate]

Red Bull will stay with Renault. They don't have any other choice. Merc won't supply to them, Ferrari might refuse too, and Honda is not an attractive option.

Lastly developing a power train of their own isn't feasable since it could take 2 years until they are competitive.

[PLAYLIFE]

RBR would be silly to deviate from Renault and become a customer of another engine manufacturer.

[Lazy]

I'm hoping Audi will buy RB, I agree that Mateschitz probably doesn't see much more mileage in it.

[Mart280]

Whatever Renault engine is used in FR3.5, with luck they will carry out their threat to quit, who do they think they are.

[Newbrray]

Why not investing cosworth, they have a v6 turbo engine already defined. They can get mario Illien involved and see if they make something of that

I think poll should be amended to include cosworth

Edited by Newbrray, 16 March 2015 - 07:41.

[Petroltorque]

I think we can say that the relationship between Renault and Red Bull is coming to an end. That does not leave the Milton Keynes outfit with many options. VW? It's well known that Piech will have nothing to do with F1 as long as Ecclestone is still involved. The other issue is entering as a new Manufacturer this late limits development as the new engine has to be homologated immediately. The only option remains Cosworth. The unit has been designed from the initial formulation of the rules. The main weakness would remain the ERS but Red Bull could tackle that in house as they were keen to do with Renault.

[Gorma]

Everybody is in it to win it... But are more restrictions really the answer here?

 

Horner has come up with some rather crazy suggestions lately like restricting HP, banning the use of wind tunnels and standard processors or whatever the hell he was referring to with regard to CFD. It's bordering on ludicrous as it is already and these suggestions will make me turn my back on F1 for sure.

No they aren't. The amount of money and effort that the top teams put in is no way comparable to the small teams. 

 

Horner's suggestions are completely normal. You ask for the moon and when you settle for less everyone can agree that it was a compromise. It's the only way F1 works.

[v@sh]

The FIA should have made the engines closer to what WEC is doing, there would be an easier transition between the two series. Too bad that opportunity is gone.

 

Mercedes - already at the maximum allocation for customers, wouldn't supply RB anyway

Ferrari - unlikely they would supply a competitor

Renault - the last resort if RB cannot find another supplier

Honda - would it really be an upgrade on the current Renault PU? would RD allow it?

Audi/Porsche - no, they would need to be already in the process of building one as there are long lead times

Cosworth - perhaps but unlikely

 

Not much choice is there? RB are in a pickle...might as well quit

[PassWind]

It will stay with Renault I suspect, not really abreast of the rumour mills for other German marques entering the sport to compete against Mercedes. Reading the after race review from Renault itself it appears the software is again the primary issue in getting the thing to drive properly, so at this stage its still a hope in progress, if they can work out how to make it all talk to itself to develop the power gains they expected there may still be hope for Renault to restore some of it's pride as an engine maker in Formula One, this isn't the first time Renault has made errors in engine development although it must be said Renault were always quite innovative in their interpretation of the regulations. 

Edited by PassWind, 16 March 2015 - 07:51.

[RA2]

Chevrolet Ilmor anyone? 

[jstrains]

Infiniti?

[Disgrace]

Infiniti?

 

They are part of the Renault-Nissan group. Infiniti are presumably there due to Renault engines.

[Petroltorque]

Infiniti is Renault.

[Peter Perfect]

Red Bull - Renault Most likely. Either that or they pull out

Red Bull - Honda Nope, not while they're tooling around at the back. Besides McLaren are obviously the 'factory' team.

Red Bull - Ferrari Ferrari wouldn't let them, their chassis skills are too good

Red Bull - Mercedes Mercedes wouldn't let them, their chassis skills are too good

Red Bull - Red Bull Not enough time

Red Bull - Audi / VW Unlikely and not enough time

[totgate]

Red Bull will probably quit F1. The current rules are a joke and F1 as it is now will not survive. Hopefully Red Bull and Adrian Newey find WEC challenging... ;-)

[KTownDevil]

RedBull Renault.

 

Ferrari, Merc and Honda won't give them their engines and all other options take too much time. 

[DS27]

 

Red Bull - Renault Most likely. Either that or they pull out

Red Bull - Honda Nope, not while they're tooling around at the back. Besides McLaren are obviously the 'factory' team.

Red Bull - Ferrari Ferrari wouldn't let them, their chassis skills are too good

Red Bull - Mercedes Mercedes wouldn't let them, their chassis skills are too good

Red Bull - Red Bull Not enough time

Red Bull - Audi / VW Unlikely and not enough time

 

 

I think this sums it up. A real chance of Red Bull pulling out if Renault do not get their act together - and where would that leave F1.

[GoldenColt]

Think that whatever happens,  Red Bull is on a downward spiral.  If I was Ricciardo, I would be looking to move teams.  Could he end up at Ferrari replacing Kimi?

 

Vettel and Ricciardo reunited. Muahahahahaha.

 

On topic: I think they'll pull out of F1 after 2015. RB that is. Renault might buy everything and have their own proper F1 team again.

Edited by GoldenColt, 16 March 2015 - 08:09.

[frosty125]

Audi/ VW is a no go they don't have an engine.

Mercedes already provide the max number of engines allowed.

Ferrari might be a good engine but they would not get much co-operation it would be pretty much here is your engine.

Honda could be an option depending on contractual agreements.

Renault makes the most sense with greater collaboration.

If Renault want out then they could buy Renault's F1 business but that is high risk..

[v@sh]

Renault makes the most sense with greater collaboration.

 

If you've read Newey's interview with the Guardian, they've already tried this. Renault wasn't helpful. Red Bull sent people to help with the software, set up a new division to help Renault. Didn't help. Given how frosty the relationship between the two now makes you wonder how this will even occur.

Edited by v@sh, 16 March 2015 - 08:18.

[Lazy]

I would be very surprised if VAG haven't got a PU in development just in case.