44 replies to this topic

[AustinF1]

Pretty inconsequential ... I only bring this up because I'm being told by a couple of people that it was Button's fault because Perez had position and Button 'closed the door" on him. David Hobbs also blamed Button using the same logic on the NBC proadcast.

 

I have a different take. From what I saw, Perez had position, but Button left him a car-width on the inside, which is what he is supposed to do. The problem began when Perez lost the front of the car and started sliding straight through the corner after turning in. When he hit Button, Button was turning and he wasn't, at least not enough. He had room to complete the pass, but he just couldn't get it done on that line at that speed. And in fact at the instant of the impact, Button was actually widening out to the exit, beginning to give him even more room, but it still wasn't enough as Perez was sliding straight thru at that point. I don't blame Perez for trying it, but it was just a failed attempt. Racing incident imho. If Perez could have maintained front grip, he probably would have made the pass.

 

Thoughts?

[Scuderia312]

Checo's fault, he came in too fast/too late, Button already went quite wide at that corner and Perez still managed to bump into him.

[Skizo]

I agree it was a racing incident,can't be Jensons fault because he left enough room.Perez was a little too fast for that line.

[Fomalhaut]

I think it was Perez fault. He throws the car expecting Jenson to move away.

[ExFlagMan]

I assume that as the stewards appeared not investigate it, that they saw very much that way - just a racing incident that Perez could have avoided.
I take the fact that Perez did not blame Button when his engineer asked him if the car was OK to indicate that he probably knew it was mainly his fault.

There used to be a translation table of drivers comments circulating in marshalling circles some time ago along the lines of

Drivers Comment - Meaning
Complete ******** idiot - it was his fault
It was definitely his fault - It was probably his fault
It was his fault - I blame him but I might have been able to avoid it
It was mainly his fault - I blame him but I should have avoided it
It was possibly his fault - I could have avoided it, but I still blame him
It was a racing incident - It was very probably my fault
Stoney silence - It was definitely my fault
It was my fault - (There is no translation for this, as instances of the driver saying it have not been recorded)

[Sheepmachine]

Just looked like a clumsy lunge by Perez to me, I don't think JB was to blame at all.

[Seanspeed]

Perez's fault, without a doubt. Button left plenty of room, but Checo couldn't get it slowed enough.

[Tsarwash]

Pretty inconsequential ... I only bring this up because I'm being told by a couple of people that it was Button's fault because Perez had position and Button 'closed the door" on him. David Hobbs also blamed Button using the same logic on the NBC proadcast.

 

Thoughts?

That video clearly shows that Perez never had the lead, Button never closed the door, and Perez can't really complain about anything, and to give him credit, I don't think he did at any point. No idea who Hobbs is, but this one is pretty clear cut. 

[slideways]

Brundle called it wrong too surprisingly "could have left him more space". Yes he could have, but he didn't have to. I think there was no investigation because it didn't hamper Button's race and the guy at fault already took a time penalty via the spin. Plus, it was borderline racing incident and they were scrapping for last. Whiting does get it right sometimes.

Edited by slideways, 16 March 2015 - 17:08.

[Spillage]

Perez's mistake for me. Button could have given more room but even if had, the rate Perez steamed into the braking zone meant it still wouldn't have avoided a collision.

[DS27]

I agree with all of the above.

 

I wonder how many pages this would run to if this had happened between the Merc's for the lead of the race - woud have livened the race up I guess.

Edited by DS27, 16 March 2015 - 17:15.

[ANF]

That video clearly shows that Perez never had the lead, Button never closed the door, and Perez can't really complain about anything, and to give him credit, I don't think he did at any point. No idea who Hobbs is, but this one is pretty clear cut. 

Here he is.

[muramasa]

haha in that air shot looks like 2 mclaren cars collide

[Jon83]

I agree with all of the above.

 

I wonder how many pages this would run to if this had happened between the Merc's for the lead of the race - woud have livened the race up I guess.

 

This forum simply wouldn't have been able to handle it!

[JTSaika]

Irrelevant, neither driver is to blame and both drivers know this, this is why neither driver, nor team has made a statement, including the stewards. The only thing that can be said is Checo knew he could have avoided it, but only if he knew the car better. Both cars are in such a horrible state of affairs right now that neither driver knows exactly how their car and their opposition will work. Essentially it comes down to understanding each others breaking zones and their breaking in general.  Racing incident, through and through.

Edited by JTSaika, 16 March 2015 - 17:23.

[MinT]

Nobody really to blame - although Perez as usual not wiling to back down regardless of consequence..

[Cacarella]

if you look at Perez's front wheels closely, just after he goes over the curb, the car is practically at full lock trying to turn right

but he hasn't scrubbed off enough speed and the car is traveling directly towards the Mclaren. He's pushing with some

major understeer and doesn't have control at that point - completely his fault.

 

Although, I wondered why Button was trying so hard to keep him behind when I suspected they would have been treating this

as a race simulation test (seeing as they hadn't done one yet).  Obviously, they didn't go that route and treated it as a real race.

[Clatter]

Brundle called it wrong too surprisingly "could have left him more space". Yes he could have, but he didn't have to. I think there was no investigation because it didn't hamper Button's race and the guy at fault already took a time penalty via the spin. Plus, it was borderline racing incident and they were scrapping for last. Whiting does get it right sometimes.

He probably never even saw it.

[BillBald]

Although, I wondered why Button was trying so hard to keep him behind when I suspected they would have been treating this

as a race simulation test (seeing as they hadn't done one yet).  Obviously, they didn't go that route and treated it as a real race.

 

I wondered that as well, but Jenson's RE was encouraging him, so I guess Macca are a racing team after all.

 

Maybe they should have brought in De La Rosa for this race...

 

In defence of Checo, he was losing a lot of time behind Jenson, so it's not surprising that a touch of desperation was creeping in.

[muramasa]

with trackside cam it certainly did look like JB shut the door completely so can't blame Brundle (unless that comment was made after seeing that air shot)

[JAW97]

Perez could have avoided it imo. I suspect Perez would've been penalised if Button left a few more inches.

Edited by JAW97, 16 March 2015 - 17:53.

[Rurouni]

if you look at Perez's front wheels closely, just after he goes over the curb, the car is practically at full lock trying to turn right

but he hasn't scrubbed off enough speed and the car is traveling directly towards the Mclaren. He's pushing with some

major understeer and doesn't have control at that point - completely his fault.

 

Although, I wondered why Button was trying so hard to keep him behind when I suspected they would have been treating this

as a race simulation test (seeing as they hadn't done one yet).  Obviously, they didn't go that route and treated it as a real race.

There was this...

 

HONDAPU22 @hondapu22 · Mar 14

Keep it up @JensonButton. We'll defend our position like warriors!

 

Obviously because the engine wanted to race. nothing to do with Button.

[Tsarwash]

Here he is.

Thanks, reading about him now. Good history. 

[DaddyCool]

Typical Perez divebomb maneuver. Honestly I'm dumbstruck why a few of you even considering that Button had anything to do with this collision. 

[jstrains]

Perez stupid rookie mistake

[ninetyzero]

Clearly Perez. Anyone who thinks that was Button's fault should go to specsavers. He really shouldn't be making those kinds of mistakes at this point in his career.

[charly0418]

Perez mistake. Gp2 like

 

Dont see anyone supporting his side here lol, so there goes the discussion

[Sunnyy]

I agree with all of the above.

 

I wonder how many pages this would run to if this had happened between the Merc's for the lead of the race - woud have livened the race up I guess.

 

 

It would have got a lot more but Perez and Button are back markers and pretty insignificant. The big surprise is that a thread on this was made especially as it had no bearing on the result of either driver.  

[DCComics]

Typical Perez divebomb maneuver. Honestly I'm dumbstruck why a few of you even considering that Button had anything to do with this collision.

Probably because the incident is not as black and white as you think. At least Brundle seemmed to believe jenson should have given more room.

Personally, I think the incident was just a slight miscalculation from both drivers, nothing more.

[andysaint]

50:50 for me. Button was a bit flakey on entry, he didn't open the door filly but didn't close it, he needed to make his intentions clearer. Perez should have been more patient and done button the straight. Really stupid incident.

[ardbeg]

Yes, Perez lost the front just before apex. It happens, specially after you have been behind a car that is clearly slower for a number of laps. Button drove good defence so I knew it would end contact.

[Juan Kerr]

I think Perez is niggled about something, because it is showing in his driving I find him quite annoying and would rather someone else replace him in F1. Not enough positive energy for me sorry.

[MirNyet]

Perez thinking the McLaren would simply move out of his way - silly mistake and Perez really should know better by now. Interesting that this didn't knock the McLaren into a spin - must have some rear down force on that car considering the low speed.

[Clatter]

50:50 for me. Button was a bit flakey on entry, he didn't open the door filly but didn't close it, he needed to make his intentions clearer. Perez should have been more patient and done button the straight. Really stupid incident.

He was entering a RH corner and he turned right, what do you expect him to do? Give hand signals. 

[redreni]

Button left space. Perez outbraked himself and lost control of his car.

 

And when they collided, Buton and the track were both turning right while Perez wasn't turning. He was well on his way to the run-off on the outside of the corner, and only didn't end up there because he bounced off Button. It happens, but it happens to Perez more than most, and he's lucky he wasn't penalised. It was a much worse misjudgement than, for example, the one Rosberg made at Spa last season which half the members of this board wanted him sanctioned for.

Edited by redreni, 16 March 2015 - 22:12.

[ThadGreen]

You have to remember that Hobbs is an unabashed Hamilton fan who still hasn't got over the fact that Button outscored Hamilton during their time together at McLaren and as a result Hobbs never, ever, misses a chance to blame Button for something/anything. Last year he was constantly saying how much better MAG was than Button. I also feel that he makes Leigh Diffey and Steve Matchett (the other two on NBC who cover F1) look good because he, Hobbs, is so bad, he may be going senile because he seems to confuse who is the driver on the screen when commentating and goes off on a rambling tangent during broadcasts.

 

This was at best a racing incident if not Perez's fault.

[MikeV1987]

Just a classic dive bomb by Perez.

Edited by MikeV1987, 16 March 2015 - 22:01.

[superden]

Luuuunge ... crunch.

It was his fault boss. Again. honest.

[AustinF1]

That video clearly shows that Perez never had the lead, Button never closed the door, and Perez can't really complain about anything, and to give him credit, I don't think he did at any point. No idea who Hobbs is, but this one is pretty clear cut. 

Yeah, so it seems I'm not alone or crazy in my thinking that Button was in the clear on this one. Appreciate everyone's thoughts!

[AustinF1]

if you look at Perez's front wheels closely, just after he goes over the curb, the car is practically at full lock trying to turn right

but he hasn't scrubbed off enough speed and the car is traveling directly towards the Mclaren. He's pushing with some

major understeer and doesn't have control at that point - completely his fault.

 

Although, I wondered why Button was trying so hard to keep him behind when I suspected they would have been treating this

as a race simulation test (seeing as they hadn't d Less speed and or less unone one yet).  Obviously, they didn't go that route and treated it as a real race.

This is what I thought. Less speed and/or less understeer, and Perez makes the turn and makes the pass stick...and then we aren't having this conversation.

[khatibrifath]

That fight between button and perez was one of the best part of the race.......jenson was trolling perez high time.......such a shame that perez couldnt get infront of him till lap 28 i believe

[itsnoe30]

Perez's mistake. I was getting annoyed with Hobbs. How much room does JB need to leave?!

[Brother Fox]

No way Buttons fault as pretty much everyone has said. I reckon becuase karma spun the right guy around and it was fighting for last place is why there was no further action - which was he right call

I see it as more of an everyday screw up by Perez than one of his famous dangerous dive bomb moves

[Tsarwash]

That fight between button and perez was one of the best part of the race.......jenson was trolling perez high time.......such a shame that perez couldnt get infront of him till lap 28 i believe

Is that a brand new definition of trolling that none of us have heard before ? Did Jenson have a keyboard with him in the car ?

[tifosiMac]

Perez's fault pure and simple. Approached the corner far too fast and had been left room on the inside by Button. A racing incident really.