163 replies to this topic

[kosmos]

http://www.omnicorse...ulle-power-unit

http://www.formulapa...on-federazione/

 

 

According to this sites, Ecclestone told Sky Sports24 HD that Mercedes was in close contact with FIA to define the new engines, and they knew more than the others, that's the reason why they started so strong in 2014 and they still keep that advantage in 2015.

 

If this is true and is not the Italian media talking BS, I guess we will see a video of the interview.

[Ferrari2183]

The engine situation is already a mess and then Bernie drops this bombshell.

He must be posturing, because this is a serious accusation.

[TF110]

I smell bullshit, and it aint from the farm up the road.

[teejay]

Wasn't it Renault who wanted to go the new route - they would of had the most say in it ....

[woftam]

Wasn't it Renault who wanted to go the new route - they would of had the most say in it ....

 

How could it be Renault? They were so far behind the others at the start of last year it wasn't funny. Haven't put too much more resources into it this year either.

They are clearly benefitting the least.

[Tourgott]

I thought that was already known?!

It's pretty obvious that the FIA did not come up with the regulation completely by their own. So they needed help and we all know how "united" the manufactures in F1 are. So the FIA had to pick one working together.

[Rasputin]

I have always suspected that the split turbo hid something fishy, but this was something new, though I guess you should not be surprised after Mercedes was given that sneak test of the 2014 tires?

[Lazy]

Bernie stirring the ****, I would be very suspicious of his motives and honesty.

[PATISIQ]

Would not surprise, if it was true.

Edited by PATISIQ, 17 March 2015 - 06:29.

[Pimpwerx]

This article should come wrapped in tin foil. PEACE.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

He is throwing mud! This is just his latest bargaining tool...

[SanDiegoGo]

  brilliant. expect this bullshit to trotted out for eternity whenever mercedes win.

 

renault, ferrari and mercedes ALL had their say and were "in close contact" with the FIA.

[AlexS]

Wasn't it Renault who wanted to go the new route - they would of had the most say in it ....

Yes. Renault was the main reason for these hybrid engines.

Mercedes was ambivalent and Ferrari was against PU. In the end Renault got all they wanted except that the engine part is V6 instead of V4 . Ferrari wouldn't budge on being against V4.

Edited by AlexS, 17 March 2015 - 07:34.

[RedBaron]

How could it be Renault? They were so far behind the others at the start of last year it wasn't funny. Haven't put too much more resources into it this year either.

They are clearly benefitting the least.

 

 

But it was them, they wanted this.

[FenderJaguar]

i always thought Mercedes bought the 2014 season from the FIA, but I think it is time to go racing again.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 17 March 2015 - 07:40.

[SophieB]

How could it be Renault? They were so far behind the others at the start of last year it wasn't funny. Haven't put too much more resources into it this year either.

They are clearly benefitting the least.

 

They threatened to quit the sport if it didn't happen.

 

From James Allen, Nov 2011:

 

Caubet also confirms that Renault threatened to pull out of F1 altogether if the new generation 2014 engine wasn’t introduced, “We pushed the FIA to conclude on new regulation – concluded in June. Either the new regulation is clear and we will stay in F1 or we keep the same engine and Renault will stop,” he said. 


The 2014 engine is very important to Renault because it wants to scale down road car engines and the push is towards turbo hybrids, which is what the F1 engines will be. Just as Renault pioneered turbo engines in F1 and then took them to road cars, now turbo hybrids will tie F1 to the consumer market.

 

 

Source: http://www.jamesalle...ompeting-in-f1/

[Sash1]

Bernie needs a good scandal for some attention. And that kind of attention is the last thing F1 needs. 

[Petroltorque]

All manufacturers worked with the FIA to develop the Hybrid turbo rules. The initial layout was an I4 as a sop to VW. Who subsequently said they had no interest in F1. De Montezemalo then lobbied for a V6 to maintain relevance with their road cars. Without having a verbatim transcript of Ecclestone's interview one can't be sure but it would not be the first time he has not been forthright with "les actualites". A lie of omission is still a lie.

[Seanspeed]

Italian sites reporting it? Sorry, I don't believe it then.

I do believe that Mercedes probably spent more behind-the-scenes on their engine program, though.

[Jimisgod]

The engine situation is already a mess and then Bernie drops this bombshell.

He must be posturing, because this is a serious accusation.

Bernie is a businessman and the product he is selling for 2015 is a joke because of Mercedes' success. He's going to have to make changes and this splits the blame.

[jonpollak]

Isn't that the whole idea? Work with the governing body to get every last parameter and decern possible loopholes. But yeah. ... Bernie

[Massa]

I just hope this is false. Because if it's true, then it's just cheating, and Mercedes would have no merit.

 

So i hope this is false and Mercedes domination is legit.

Edited by Massa, 17 March 2015 - 09:39.

[noikeee]

I'm starting to think the theory Bernie's trying to devalue the sport might not be too far off the mark. Why the f- would he say this???

[Disgrace]

It could be as simple as him getting used to his new medication.

[Massa]

I'm starting to think the theory Bernie's trying to devalue the sport might not be too far off the mark. Why the f- would he say this???

 

 

Why ? He said some days ago that Horner was right and the FIA must do something to brake Mercedes domination.

 

It was the first part of the plan.

 

The second one is what Kosmos report to us, he said this because he wants Renault, Ferrari and Honda believe him, and put pressure to the fia with that line " We were robbed by YOU and Mercedes, so NOW we want compensation, we want to upgrade our engine while Mercedes not " .

 

Honda especially would LOVE that because ATM they are in deep ****.

Edited by Massa, 17 March 2015 - 09:43.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

All of the current power unit manufacturers were/are fan of these power units. Maybe just Ferrari had different opinion. All in all everybody agreed.

Edited by RYARLE, 17 March 2015 - 09:53.

[Cyanide]

http://www.omnicorse...ulle-power-unit

http://www.formulapa...on-federazione/

 

 

According to this sites...

 

Omnicorse and Formulapassion. Basically Italy's "Mirror". 

[EthanM]

Omnicorse and Formulapassion. Basically Italy's "Mirror". 

 

they are quoting a SKYSPORT interview so ... it shouldn't be too hard to find out if it's real or sensationalist bs

[Sash1]

Way to attract VAG to F1, piss off another respected German manufacturer. Bernie style.

[Newbrray]

How could it be Renault? They were so far behind the others at the start of last year it wasn't funny. Haven't put too much more resources into it this year either.

They are clearly benefitting the least.

 

Even Ecclestone claims as such in his recent outburst 

 

Ecclestone: Mercedes head-started as they knew a bit more

 

Ecclestone said efforts to close Mercedes' huge advantage should now be made, even though he admitted that Renault, "who pushed for this revolution, have failed".

 

[EthanM]

Story is in La Gazzetta now so the quotes at least seem to be factual

 

http://www.gazzetta....138639826.shtml

[saudoso]

Way to attract VAG to F1, piss off another respected German manufacturer. Bernie style.

VAG was the red herring of all this mess. Bernie will never see them show up and he knows it.

 

Anyway,      for anything that dumps this stupid engine setup, development freezing included.

[Seanspeed]

Story is in La Gazzetta now so the quotes at least seem to be factual
 
http://www.gazzetta....138639826.shtml

Doesn't necessarily mean its factual if their source is the same one(s) posted in the OP.

[EthanM]

Doesn't necessarily mean its factual if their source is the same one(s) posted in the OP.

hmm a fake tv interview?

[Seanspeed]

hmm a fake tv interview?

Could be a case of being mistaken or taking something out of context. Doesn't necessarily have to be a complete fabrication(though that isn't impossible, either).

[P123]

They threatened to quit the sport if it didn't happen.

 

From James Allen, Nov 2011:

 

 

Source: http://www.jamesalle...ompeting-in-f1/

 

All manufacturers worked with the FIA to develop the Hybrid turbo rules. The initial layout was an I4 as a sop to VW. Who subsequently said they had no interest in F1. De Montezemalo then lobbied for a V6 to maintain relevance with their road cars. Without having a verbatim transcript of Ecclestone's interview one can't be sure but it would not be the first time he has not been forthright with "les actualites". A lie of omission is still a lie.

 

The above two posts should be in flashing lights for the tinfoil hatters.

 

This may help them too: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117996

 

Do people really think among all the negotiations that Renault and Ferrari were silent?  Ecclestone has always been against the V6s, this is just his latest barb.  He previously moaned about Ferrari not vetoing them.

[Newbrray]

Button says Mercedes doing nothing wrong

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/button-says-mercedes-doing-nothing-wrong/

 

Button, however, insists there is nothing wrong with what Mercedes is doing, and that it is up to the opposition to raise its game.

And the Briton reckons Red Bull would not be complaining if it was the one doing all the winning.

"There's nothing really to ban, because it doesn't look like Mercedes are doing anything other teams aren't doing," said Button.

"They're told they're damaging the sport. So it's a difficult situation. It stops people from wanting to be the best.

"It obviously would be better for the sport if there were different people fighting at the front but it's not Mercedes fault.

"Would Red Bull be upset about it if they were the team out front by one second? No."

 

[Rasputin]

i always thought Mercedes bought the 2014 season from the FIA, but I think it is time to go racing again.

I think it was the other way around, Daimler/Mercedes/ was bought with the 2014 season to stay in Formula 1.

 

Nobody grasped just how way ahead the Daimler corporation was on general hybrid-technology however.

 

They figured that everybody would catch up by 2015, that didn't happen and is the reason for all this now.

Edited by Rasputin, 17 March 2015 - 10:29.

[Seanspeed]

The above two posts should be in flashing lights for the tinfoil hatters.
 
This may help them too: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117996
 
Do people really think among all the negotiations that Renault and Ferrari were silent?  Ecclestone has always been against the V6s, this is just his latest barb.  He previously moaned about Ferrari not vetoing them.

I'm guessing this isn't about who was for/against the rules, but about Mercedes possibly knowing a bit more ahead of time what the FIA were going to go through with.

I forget what it was, but I remember something back in like 2010 or 2011 or something where one team basically had knowledge before others what the status of a rule change was going to be.

[Newbrray]

I'm guessing this isn't about who was for/against the rules, but about Mercedes possibly knowing a bit more ahead of time what the FIA were going to go through with.

I forget what it was, but I remember something back in like 2010 or 2011 or something where one team basically had knowledge before others what the status of a rule change was going to be.

 

Are you referring to P.U.R.E, I remember an article that mentioned something about a conflict of interest as one of the rulemakers for the V6 turbo was then involved in the company developing the PURE v6 engine (unfortunately they folded) but there was some noise about this

 

Will try and find that article if I can still locate it 

 

could be what you are referring to

[Massa_f1]

I thought that was already known?!

It's pretty obvious that the FIA did not come up with the regulation completely by their own. So they needed help and we all know how "united" the manufactures in F1 are. So the FIA had to pick one working together.

 

I too thought this was already known. Everyone seemed to know that Mercedes were going to be really good years in advance, because of the engine.

[Seanspeed]

Are you referring to P.U.R.E, I remember an article that mentioned something about a conflict of interest as one of the rulemakers for the V6 turbo was then involved in the company developing the PURE v6 engine (unfortunately they folded) but there was some noise about this
 
Will try and find that article if I can still locate it 
 
could be what you are referring to

No, that definitely isn't it. It was something basically where one team was told that they were going ahead with something when they asked, but other teams were not given a straight answer.

[Rinehart]

No, that definitely isn't it. It was something basically where one team was told that they were going ahead with something when they asked, but other teams were not given a straight answer.

 

In July 2011, the company PURE secured the services of Gilles Simon, formerly head of Scuderia Ferrari's engine department and the FIA technical director for powertrain development.The recruitment was controversial, with several teams and manufacturers – particularly Renault – expressing concerns that Simon's previous position with the FIA would grant him access to sensitive technical data about engine designs that could potentially be used by PURE in the development of their own engine.

[03011969]

Bernie's just aware the show is not very exciting when one team dominates and he wants to close the gap. More excitement = more viewers = more money for Bernie.

 

He wants a close WDC fight until the end of the end of the season.  This year it wasn't even exciting until the first turn of the first race.

 

What Bernie's doing is all quite predictable.

[Seanspeed]

In July 2011, the company PURE secured the services of Gilles Simon, formerly head of Scuderia Ferrari's engine department and the FIA technical director for powertrain development.The recruitment was controversial, with several teams and manufacturers – particularly Renault – expressing concerns that Simon's previous position with the FIA would grant him access to sensitive technical data about engine designs that could potentially be used by PURE in the development of their own engine.

Again, that was not it.

[Yakari]

Synopsis of FIA Race Director Charlie Whiting’s media Q&A session

Australian GP -  Thursday 14^th March, 2013

 

Technical progress with the regulation of 2014 engines
We’re having lots of meetings within the unofficial powertrain working group, which is composed of the engine suppliers. We have lots of meetings with those suppliers and the ideas that emerge go before the Technical Working Group.

 

 

 

http://www.fia.com/s...edia-qa-session

[P123]

Again, that was not it.

 

Give us a clue. 

 

I can only think it would be something in relation to Ferrari's veto or involving one of the FIAs numerous rule clarifications over the years.

Edited by P123, 17 March 2015 - 10:48.

[EthanM]

http://www.fia.com/s...edia-qa-session

 

 

My *guess* as to what Ecclestone is referring to goes further back than this, probably 2010 or 2011. The original plan for the new engines was inline 4s, then Ferrari mostly made a lot of noise about not wanting an inline 4 engine, people started working on i4 concepts then sometime in 2011 the FIA did a u-turn and switched i4s to V6s. There were rumors back then that "somebody" worked up the V6 plan for the FIA (ie knew what was going to happen before everybody else) so effectively didn't waste time on a i4 concept.

[Ferrari2183]

The above two posts should be in flashing lights for the tinfoil hatters.

 

This may help them too: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117996

 

Do people really think among all the negotiations that Renault and Ferrari were silent?  Ecclestone has always been against the V6s, this is just his latest barb.  He previously moaned about Ferrari not vetoing them.

All manufacturers were involved but it doesn't mean that all thought it was a good idea. And while Ferrari weren't specifically against the V6 they were definitely against the timing of its introduction and wanted to continue with the V8's for a few more years.

 

"We now have to do the six cylinder engine," Montezemolo said on Saturday at Monza. "I'm not against the six cylinders, I'm against the timing. I think that at this moment that if we continued with this engine [the V8] for a couple more years, I don't think it would be a disaster. Anyway, now we have [the new engine] this means costs and this also means innovation. I'm an engine manufacturer but I need science, so my worry is that if we don't capture the cost with determination, in two or three years there won't be enough teams."

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com...FXDvuUPDD6KD.99

[Massa]

 

All manufacturers were involved but it doesn't mean that all thought it was a good idea. And while Ferrari weren't specifically against the V6 they were definitely against the timing of its introduction and wanted to continue with the V8's for a few more years.

 

"We now have to do the six cylinder engine," Montezemolo said on Saturday at Monza. "I'm not against the six cylinders, I'm against the timing. I think that at this moment that if we continued with this engine [the V8] for a couple more years, I don't think it would be a disaster. Anyway, now we have [the new engine] this means costs and this also means innovation. I'm an engine manufacturer but I need science, so my worry is that if we don't capture the cost with determination, in two or three years there won't be enough teams."

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com...FXDvuUPDD6KD.99

 

 

 

 

Montezemolo was spot on. His last sentence is just what happen now.