163 replies to this topic

[Melbourne Park]

Because it took YEARS to develop these engines.  When Renault originally pushed for these regulations they probably thought they would have some kind of advantage or at the very least parity, with the added bonus of being slightly more relevant to their road cars.

 

It really has blown up in their face though.  One might even say it has backfired.  Okay I'm done with bad engine puns now.

 

This is very far from what is going on. Because if you read what Renault publish, their revisions for 2015 have been on the ICE, not the Kers environment. Renault have said they dropped the ball on the ICE ... 

 

ICE  (Edit) KERS might be more important than it was, but its still only a little contributor to performance.

Edited by Melbourne Park, 23 March 2015 - 06:22.

[Melbourne Park]

Since last winter?

 

I can't remember Red Bull coming out with many compliments toward Renault even when they were dominating (by 2+ seconds sometimes, regardless of what Horner now bleats) the field for years in a row.

 

Red Bull, as graceless in defeat as they were in victory.

 

 

In actual fact, there is a Renault press representative in the team, and after every performance, that representative has his say. So after a race, the typical comments would have been from the two drivers, normally Horner, and the Renault representative, who would also comment about the other Renault engine performances. 

[lbennie]

Since last winter?

 

I can't remember Red Bull coming out with many compliments toward Renault even when they were dominating (by 2+ seconds sometimes, regardless of what Horner now bleats) the field for years in a row.

 

Red Bull, as graceless in defeat as they were in victory.

 

What a brilliant argument, because you can't remember something or weren't paying attention, it didn't happen.

 

When did they ever dominate by 2+ seconds?

Edited by lbennie, 22 March 2015 - 23:50.

[black magic]

as said by others, no one has come up with a way that mercedes has bent the current regs to date.

 

double diffuser - should bnever have been allowed and was only allowed to let brawn steal a march on the bigger teams.

 

red bull had their wings clipped becasue as was suspected they were pushing the laws to the limits and fia chose to interpret them more strictly.

 

renault had a fair bit to do with the push to current engine regs. red bull fought and got the engine freeze unfrozen to allow for in season development.

 

what red bull has demonstratred is that they are poor at working in partnerships with major suppliers.

 

didims

[lbennie]

"They knew a bit 'more of the power unit because the people of the Mercedes were in close contact with the International Federation,"- Bernie Eccelstone

[Melbourne Park]

...

red bull had their wings clipped becasue as was suspected they were pushing the laws to the limits and fia chose to interpret them more strictly.

 

IMO Red Bull had their wings clipped because the FIA wanted a closer competition - a more level playing field.

 

On another issue, people here complain about Red Bull whining ... but all the teams whined about Red Bull after their first championship win. Remember all the rumours about ride height cheating, etc etc etc ...

 

The common behaviour of the FIA since the Ferrari / Mosley era, has been to seek a more level playing field i.e. cars closer in performance. The issue IMO is that its difficult to level the Mercedes advantage. And that is due to the rules which presumed at the outset similar performance in the motor packages excepting for reliability issues. 

 

Even the motor manufacturers presumed the performance would be straight forward to achieve. Even Honda have more recently done so, and they had already seen the troubles Ferrari and Renault had in 2014.

Edited by Melbourne Park, 23 March 2015 - 06:30.

[Rhardrks]

None of the engine rules changes post 1995 have saved money. They should go back to the open rules from 1989-1994. Build any engine you want from v6 to v12. Put a 90kg limit on allowed fuel per race and let them get on with it.

[Gyno]

None of the engine rules changes post 1995 have saved money. They should go back to the open rules from 1989-1994. Build any engine you want from v6 to v12. Put a 90kg limit on allowed fuel per race and let them get on with it.

 

 

90kg limit would make the teams save fuel from lap 1 and barely make it to the end of the race.

I rather see no limit on fuel and bring what ever engine you want and use what ever fuel you want.

 

 

When Ferrari dominated the sport in the early 00s the FIA changed rules all the time to try to slow them down.

Same thing with Red Bull.

 

 

Why aren't they doing it now with Mercedes?

[Newbrray]

90kg limit would make the teams save fuel from lap 1 and barely make it to the end of the race.

I rather see no limit on fuel and bring what ever engine you want and use what ever fuel you want.

 

 

When Ferrari dominated the sport in the early 00s the FIA changed rules all the time to try to slow them down.

Same thing with Red Bull.

 

 

Why aren't they doing it now with Mercedes?

 

They've banned DDRS & FRIC and allowed a loophole for in season token development. I think they're doing the same to Mercedes already 

[bonjon1979a]

They've banned DDRS & FRIC and allowed a loophole for in season token development. I think they're doing the same to Mercedes already 

shhh, Horner el al don't want anyone to talk about these things, you know. the truth.

[Gyno]

They've banned DDRS & FRIC and allowed a loophole for in season token development. I think they're doing the same to Mercedes already

 

But it hasn't hurt them one bit.

Just made them stronger.

[Newbrray]

But it hasn't hurt them one bit.

Just made them stronger.

 

Nevertheless, the intent was to try to slow them down, it's just a pity that it backfired.

 

Maybe and just maybe the whole car is fully optimized and everything working in tandem as a unit, maybe there is no silver bullet to the Mercedes W05/W06 and its really just a case of the sum of all parts

Edited by Newbrray, 23 March 2015 - 16:39.

[bonjon1979a]

Nevertheless, the intent was to try to slow them down, it's just a pity that it backfired.

 

Maybe and just maybe the whole car is fully optimized and everything working in tandem as a unit, maybe there is no silver bullet to the Mercedes W05/W06 and its really the sum of all parts

It was like the engine map ban hit Mclaren the hardest and actually stopped them being able to challenge Red Bull.

[Newbrray]

Maybe Mercs advantage is not really the PU but the chassis

 

http://www.grandprix...r-good-chassis/

 

 

Indeed, it is rumoured Honda took a very aggressive approach to its V6 design, realising the gap that eventually needed to be closed to Mercedes.

Button confirmed: “It’s probably wrong for me to say… it’s probably more like a Mercedes than it is the other two manufacturers. In terms of design, aggressiveness and packaging. But it’s going to take a little bit of time.”

Also on the bright side, it emerged on Tuesday that the 2015 McLaren chassis is almost certainly a good one.

F1’s official website calculates ‘cornering ratings’ for each driver after races, by averaging the side-to-side G-forces in every corner across a grand prix.

Button’s cornering rating ranked fourth overall in Australia, behind only the two Mercedes drivers and Felipe Massa.