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#1 MatsNorway

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 19:19

 

Subscribe for updates on the project here.

https://www.youtube....mnNBkosxCeHGqPA


Edited by MatsNorway, 24 March 2015 - 19:21.


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#2 Fat Boy

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 00:19

Watching Chris Harris drive a La Ferrari was enough to cure me of ever watching him again. When you drive a Camaro or Mustang, then get sideways and play around. If you're driving a real car and trying to comment on it with any credibility, then learn to hit an apex and don't drive it like your average race team mini-van on the way to (or from) the bar.



#3 Canuck

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 03:16

Perhaps, but touring the guts of this latest car was interesting.



#4 R Soul

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 20:33

Harris doesn't do any driving so it's safe to watch, and well worth it.

 

And my name will be on the tail fin!



#5 imaginesix

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 20:43

Actually Harris kind of ruins it. All he offers is a chance to glean a bunch of neat bits of the car, but he's not the right person to be talking about technical stuff.  Neither amusing nor insightful.

 

But then he's not the right person to be reviewing supercars either, so I guess it makes no difference. 



#6 kikiturbo2

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:37

 

 

But then he's not the right person to be reviewing supercars either, so I guess it makes no difference. 

 

why?



#7 kikiturbo2

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:38

Watching Chris Harris drive a La Ferrari was enough to cure me of ever watching him again. When you drive a Camaro or Mustang, then get sideways and play around. If you're driving a real car and trying to comment on it with any credibility, then learn to hit an apex and don't drive it like your average race team mini-van on the way to (or from) the bar.

 

for an amateur, he is a pretty bloody good race driver...



#8 bigleagueslider

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:26

Very interesting project from a technical prospective. But with a wheeled vehicle propelled by jet/rocket thrust at speeds over 1000mph, the guy is not a driver. He is just a passenger along for the ride. At those speeds things happen so fast there is not much he can do when things get dicey except pray. Even if he manages to survive the initial break-up of the vehicle in a crash, he will likely have his flesh dissolved by the HTP propellant spewing from the bursted tank located directly behind him.



#9 Kelpiecross

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:35

Very interesting project from a technical prospective. But with a wheeled vehicle propelled by jet/rocket thrust at speeds over 1000mph, the guy is not a driver. He is just a passenger along for the ride. At those speeds things happen so fast there is not much he can do when things get dicey except pray. Even if he manages to survive the initial break-up of the vehicle in a crash, he will likely have his flesh dissolved by the HTP propellant spewing from the bursted tank located directly behind him.


Maybe the driver should have a "zero-zero" ejector seat.

I think all LSR cars should be wheel-driven only - and boats prop-driven only.

#10 Johan Lekas

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 13:37

Peter Windsor has done a series of interviews with Andy Green on the Bloodhound SSC

Parts 1-5



#11 carlt

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 13:43


I think all LSR cars should be wheel-driven only - and boats prop-driven only.

Like most forms of motorsport there are different Classes



#12 chunder27

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 18:37

I think people who say they should be wheel driven are misunderstanding the point.

 

This machine, if it works, is an astounding piece of engineering, it is a clear stepup from SSC and a clear piece of genius engineering.

 

Theya re pushing boundaries here that they only just got near last time.

 

When you think Art Arfons was doing 600+mph in a thing built in a shed with second hand parts and a scrap engine, then this is simply staggering.

 

Those men, Arfons, Breedlove, Green, Noble are proper heroes and are not recognised enough in my opinion.

 

Noble is doing this right, he is trying and basing the entire project around education, the man has more in his right eyebrow than any politician I have ever listened to. 



#13 Fat Boy

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 23:57

for an amateur, he is a pretty bloody good race driver...

What saw was not good at all. There's a big difference between having a bit of car control or being able to drift a car and being a race driver... A _big_ difference.



#14 bigleagueslider

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 05:00

An un-manned rocket sled has exceeded mach 8. If it had a person on-board would that qualify as some form of land speed record for the "driver"?



#15 GreenMachine

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 07:22

Probably not.  IIRC, it has to be in both directions (ie the average of the two averages), and over a measured mile (kilometre?).



#16 gruntguru

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 08:19

.  . and the sled was constrained to a rail or rails.



#17 desmo

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:00

At such speeds, constraining the car to rails is just bloody common sense.,



#18 kikiturbo2

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 01:02

What saw was not good at all. There's a big difference between having a bit of car control or being able to drift a car and being a race driver... A _big_ difference.

 

Luckily he didnt do much sliding when he was a part of the team that brought a stock gt3RS to 13th overall on 24 hr of nurburgring..



#19 MatsNorway

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 12:21

Look. All car shows does the same, its for the show and for the enterainment. But i would not mind seeing the cars being actually driven to the limit more often but i think thats harder and thus it has more risk in it. Thus they do not do it as it would pose a bad business decision. We all know that a  capable driver like Jackie steward crashed an Jaguar LM car for a car show he had.

 

As for the Bloodhound. Im having serious doubts about this going well. It is some insane speeds they are going to do, it is just so insanely fast.


Edited by MatsNorway, 29 March 2015 - 12:31.


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#20 gruntguru

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 22:34

If you haven't watched the videos posted by Johan in post #10 yet - do it. Very impressive man and very impressive project.



#21 scolbourne

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:09

I think the definition of "LAND" used for the record means it has to be natural. Salt flats or sandy beaches are allowed. Man made surfaces such as roads or runways are illegal.

 

There is a rumour that the 1933  Napier Railton still holds the 24hr record , ( probably because no one has attempted it since with a decent car on a natural surface).



#22 gruntguru

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:47

I think paved roads are allowed but they just don't exist - not at the length, width and flatness required. The other problem is at 1000 mph the "tyres" have to be metal. (Which rules out hard surfaces.)


Edited by gruntguru, 30 March 2015 - 04:47.


#23 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 22:57

I think the 'sponsor' is quite apt. I just hope he does not join them at those speeds



#24 bigleagueslider

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 03:29

.  . and the sled was constrained to a rail or rails.

Compared to USAF Col. John Stapp's bareback ride on a rocket sled at 632mph in 1954, Andy Green's efforts seem rather weak.

 

1280px-Rocket_sled_track.jpg



#25 gruntguru

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 04:04

You clearly haven't watched the videos.



#26 imaginesix

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 04:51

If you haven't watched the videos posted by Johan in post #10 yet - do it. Very impressive man and very impressive project.

Dunno, he reminds me of someone I knew who was always a little bit too impressed with himself and his special knowledge, and who was pretty good about reminding people of it at every turn.

 

Or a PC way of saying it is he's very knowledgeable and eager to share his enthusiasm.

 

So the fact that Bloodhound IS extremely impressive means he gets a free pass to be as "knowledgeable" and "enthusiastic" as he wants about it.


Edited by imaginesix, 31 March 2015 - 04:54.


#27 gruntguru

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 05:28

Yes that - and the fact that he has risen to Wing Commander in the RAF and he does hold the world land speed record at 763 mph (you can't bullshit your way to either of those) - he is probably entitled to preach.

 

I for one am happy to listen and learn.



#28 chunder27

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 12:57

If you know anyhting about the RAF you will know that this is what happens when a pilot is trained the way they are.

 

Most of them are like this, I would imagine pilots of fighter planes in particular the world over are like this.

 

It is necessary, you are an implement responsible for taking life, you have to be arrogant, you have to be full of confidence and able to convey your thoughts quickly and emphatically. It is saving lives in theory and the deciions made need to be quick, no bull and clear.

 

I know what you mean about Andy's way and manner. But if you watch the first post here, you will see it is a front, he is actually simply a professional man who is now a figurehead for a huge project that takes a lot of time, money and effort to get right.

 

I do think he could take a step back from the typical RAF ways he displays, but it works for the project and it certainly works for the car.

Would you rather have a goofy, shouty meathead telling how you great he is, then falling flat on his face?  No.



#29 bigleagueslider

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 04:08

Yes that - and the fact that he has risen to Wing Commander in the RAF and he does hold the world land speed record at 763 mph (you can't bullshit your way to either of those) - he is probably entitled to preach.

 

I for one am happy to listen and learn.

I have nothing but admiration for what Cmdr. Green achieved in his RAF career. But let's compare his contributions to the 1997 Thrust SSC project versus what Art Arfons achieved in 1965 with his Green Monster. Andy Green only piloted the vehicle, and he contributed little to the design and construction of it. On the other hand, Arfons designed and built the Green Monster mostly on his own, and he even made substantial modifications to the surplus J79 jet engine it used. Then he also piloted the vehicle to an average speed of 576mph in 1965.

 

monster37.jpg



#30 gruntguru

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:29

I would find Art's video doubly fascinating - if you would care to post a link.



#31 chunder27

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Posted 03 April 2015 - 10:11

I rate guys like Arfons.

 

But he was of an age when there was no testing or development, all of what he did was based on experience and a sort of sixth sense he had on what  MIGHT work.

And he got it wrong a few times, he was using rubber tyres, had to put 4 on the back axle, had a huge crash when a wheel bearing broke coz it was off a plance nad not designed to spin at 600mph!

 

he got the engne from a scrap dealer, it was FOD damaged so hs balanced it by taking out the opposite blades!  The  i think later got a proper version.

Arfons was crazy, he ran the thing full burner almost off the bat, took chances and was braave and somewhat lucky.  Brredlove had a more measure and calculated approach.

 

Nobles and Green offered the alternatiev British approach. Designed properly, built by people who knoew about hige speed aerodynamics and rocket engineering, tested at speed using models and wind tunnels.

 

This is why Breedloves later attempt failed and why other like McGlashan, and that God awful American Eagle thing failed.

 

People need to remember that McLAren nearly built a LSR car!



#32 bigleagueslider

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Posted 04 April 2015 - 04:55

It would not be fair to describe Arfons as "crazy". Obviously he was willing to take significant risk with his land speed record attempts, but he definitely had a pretty good understanding of what he was doing with his vehicle design. The guy had enough technical knowledge to figure out how to rework the damaged compressor section of a high-performance turbojet engine, install it in his vehicle, and get it to run properly. He was also able to design and build a vehicle that made several successful runs at speeds over 500mph. You can't claim this was mostly due to luck.

 

As for the "alternative British approach....designed properely, built by people who knoew about hige speed aerodynamics and rocket engineering, tested at speed using models and wind tunnels", I'd simply point out that about 19 years prior to Arfon's successful 1965 record run, Geoffrey DeHavilland , who was arguably the top British aircraft engineer at that time was killed when the aircraft he was piloting broke up at an airspeed barely 100mph higher than what Arfon's one-man garage project achieved on the ground. That defective aircraft design benefitted from the full technical and financial resources the British government had at their disposal.

 

In 1966 Arfons actually managed a single run at a max speed of 610mph before crashing. 17 years later Richard Noble managed a top speed of just 40mph faster (650mph) in his Thrust2 car, which ironically looked very similar to Arfon's Green Monster.

 

Just to be clear, I love what is being attempted by the Bloodhound project. I also like what they have done with all of the technical material provided on their website.



#33 chunder27

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 22:01

In all honesty I do think Arfons was a little crazy really but in a sort of bravado just try it way. He had little idea what driving at 600+mph was REALLY going to be like, neither did Breedlove as they did not do much in the way of testing. Craigs car was coming apart at 600mph and Arfons never survived his run, and neother did the car after it was sold on later to Slick Gardner. Salt time was critical and both them literally were one after the other so Art just lit the wick on the burner and went for it! 

 

Craig might have had some aero input on his car and perhaps used a model, but Art was still doing match races and trying to go super fast on drag strips a few years before he built the Monster, and he got it wrong a few times there too!

 

And comparing their and Nobles car is futile really even though they looked similar, they were on a totally different surface and Thrust 2 was never designed to run on rubber tyres, a problem that gave Arfons endless headaches initiall until running twin tyres. You only have to look at the way things broke like wheel bearings to know this was a tremendously footloose and fancy free project. Art knew what he was doing with build and jets, but he was a very brave man, he went into runs at full chat, never in stages like Craig or Noble did, it really was turn the wick up and hope for the best.

 

Richards car was carefully put together, and was pushing the same boundary, it was designed to do 650mph and did just over that in its run, any more and it would have lifted.  Same as SSC, they even considered putting the more powerful engines in that car believe it or not, but decided against it as the desert was hammering the car to pieces, so in thoeory that car could do over 800mph.

 

What Arfons did in tractor pulling was clever, using turbines, but his later LSR cars were very small and didn't work at all well. But then neither did Breedloves even though it looked amazing. His approach was trying to do it all on the cheap if you will. A back yard approach and it worked very well so you cannot argue against it.

 

I have immense admiraiton for all of them, Green, Gabelich, Walt Arfons, Mickey Thompson, Eyston, Cobb etc etc.  They are true heroes in my eyes and to have been alive and seen these cars in the flesh is something very special for me.

 

I am hoping to see the Bllodhound for real when it tuns on airfields here next year.


Edited by chunder27, 06 April 2015 - 22:03.


#34 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 22:43

Does anyone know the dates of the Newquay runs?

#35 bigleagueslider

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 04:31

"....And comparing their and Nobles car is futile really even though they looked similar, they were on a totally different surface and Thrust 2 was never designed to run on rubber tyres, a problem that gave Arfons endless headaches initiall until running twin tyres. You only have to look at the way things broke like wheel bearings to know this was a tremendously footloose and fancy free project...."

 

Gary Gabelich ran quite successfully over 630mph in 1970 on 4 rubber tires. Goodyear engineers stated the Blue Flame's rubber tires were designed for speeds up to 700mph. What is even more impressive is that these Goodyear tires were pneumatic rather than solid rubber. Think about that for a second - 45 years ago Goodyear engineers were able to design a pneumatic tire that could run at 700mph.

 

Most of the guys involved in the design of the Blue Flame were also drag racers, just like Arfons.

 

Goodwood2007-121_The_Blue_Flame.jpg



#36 Bob Riebe

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 05:11

I rate guys like Arfons.

 

But he was of an age when there was no testing or development, all of what he did was based on experience and a sort of sixth sense he had on what  MIGHT work.

And he got it wrong a few times, he was using rubber tyres, had to put 4 on the back axle, had a huge crash when a wheel bearing broke coz it was off a plance nad not designed to spin at 600mph!

 

he got the engne from a scrap dealer, it was FOD damaged so hs balanced it by taking out the opposite blades!  The  i think later got a proper version.

Arfons was crazy, he ran the thing full burner almost off the bat, took chances and was braave and somewhat lucky.  Brredlove had a more measure and calculated approach.

 

Nobles and Green offered the alternatiev British approach. Designed properly, built by people who knoew about hige speed aerodynamics and rocket engineering, tested at speed using models and wind tunnels.

 

This is why Breedloves later attempt failed and why other like McGlashan, and that God awful American Eagle thing failed.

 

People need to remember that McLAren nearly built a LSR car!

Arfons car had a four stage after-burner and he never used  stage three much less stage four

Arfons always used the engine he built. The government was not happy he was able to rebuild it without outside help.

 

He reached 625 mph during his last successful  record run and it was a tire blow-out, Firestone, that caused the crash after he had backed-off the throttle, because he knew he had the record.

It had two tire in back, not four.

He set the record on the short course and not the long international course.

 

A bearing froze on a run in 1966 , after which Arfons rebuilt the car but sold it, something he later said was a huge mistake.

The new owner turned chicken after a low speed loss of control. When Art tried to buy it back the new owner wanted ten times what he had paid for it.

 

You should read some books that were written and include quotes by him on what happened and not guess.

 

green-monster1.jpg    arfons.jpg

 

Breedlove inteviewed by HotRod Magazine about the 675 mph crash.

 

CB: Richard Noble’s record at the time was 633 mph. I was anxious to get the record back and go to a Shell marketing meeting that afternoon and tell them we did it. But we had some problems on the first run and the [after]burner wouldn’t light. Between the burner and a problem with timing equipment, we lost about two hours. We got ready to run the car back, and I was belted in and ready to go. We had a guy in a plane to check that the course was clear and get a wind report. The wind on the first run was a 1.5-knot crosswind. The report came in for the second run and it said “one five” so I thought it was still 1.5 knots but what I didn’t get was that it was 15 knots, not 1.5. We’d lost all this time and still had to make two runs [for the record], and I was all strapped in with my race face on, breathing mask on, looking down the course, jet engine on and brake on, ready to go, so I heard one five and figured I was good to go. They had moved the throttle stop up because the burner didn’t light on the run down and they wanted to make sure they had enough throttle to light the burner, and when I rolled into burner it was “whoa, that’s way too much wick up!”   I didn’t want to go supersonic because we hadn’t done enough test runs, so I had to back out of the throttle three times going down and finally I could see the light, and rolled into burner, and as soon as I broke the first light I looked at the speedometer and it had just cleared 675, so I had to ease up in the mile or I’m gonna be at 800 coming out the backside of this thing. Right then the wind caught me and blew the car on its side, so then I had a whole other problem. It went up on its side into the wind, and then started to settle, then came up again then dropped down on its wheels. By then I was pointed at a Winnebago in the viewing area, so I had to get around it and get it stopped. The car was damaged severely. Outside of that we’d have had the record no problem.


Edited by Bob Riebe, 08 April 2015 - 05:46.


#37 gruntguru

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 22:37

Awesome story! That front wing looks very "added". If you included adjustable pitch in the original design, it would look different to that.



#38 gruntguru

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 00:27

. . . . But with a wheeled vehicle propelled by jet/rocket thrust at speeds over 1000mph, the guy is not a driver. He is just a passenger along for the ride. At those speeds things happen so fast there is not much he can do when things get dicey except pray. . . .

 It seems he is still driving at 550 at least.

 

"We were obviously disappointed that we didn’t get it, but I have the utmost respect for Andy Green. First of all he is an absolute prince of a guy. I really like him on a personal level, and he’s so talented. He’s such a smart, sharp guy. I mean he flies supersonic jets as a day job. To be really honest, there were a lot of technical problems that we all had with those cars, and Andy’s military training is what really impressed me about the guy. It’s like a sense of duty. They send these guys on a mission and it’s like ‘You gotta fly down these smokestacks and bomb that reactor over there, that’s your job.’ You fly down there and there’s 6 other fighters coming up after you and you have anti-aircraft fire, and your job is to fly down and bomb the reactor. That’s what they’re trained for and that’s how Andy approached the job of driving that car.   I gotta tell you something, that thing was a handful. It did not handle well with the rear wheel steering, because of the asymetrics of the rear wheels and the shock wave pattern it developed, it made a horrendous left turn on every run at about 550 mph. Andy learned how to start correcting for it before it started happening. To be honest, if I was driving that car I would have told them, ‘You have to fix this car. It’s turning hard left at 500 and I don’t like it.’ He figured out how to drive the car through that unstable area. Certainly it was an incredible effort and not to diminish Richard Noble’s effort and the huge job he did to make that program successful, but it wasn’t for Andy Green…in my own personal opinion, he was probably the most significant factor in the English getting the record. i wouldn’t have driven the car like it was."

 

 

Read more: http://www.hotrod.co.../#ixzz3WlcVszYz

 

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#39 chunder27

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 19:20

I have read plenty of books about the LSR and can conclude in MY opinion that the American efforts were really all very haphazard.  But they worked. This was all new back then. Americans had a different way of doing things, compared to Eyston, Cobb and Campbell. These were rich men from a hugely powerful nation at the time doing it from Britain.

 

I never really got the impression that Arfons or Breedlove were doing it for anything other than themselves, hence their differnet approach. You only have to look athte efforts of Walt Arfons and the rocket can car, Palamides car that crashed, Ostichs car. A lot of them crashed

 

In my eyes their best effort by far was the Blue Flame, a very cleverly designed car and so liight, that using rubber tyres was no problem there.

 

And then they go and spoilt it all with the embarassment that was Budweiser Rocket, undoubtedly a fast cat and capable of the LSR, but was never meant to run more than a few seconds hence its size, fuel capacity and ability to be run twice in an hour was doubtful.

 

The results do the talking, Noble and Green took, measured, cautious steps to reach their goals and encountered problems frequently too. But they never crashed their cars. They approached the LSR as a project not simply a very involved drag race. They often used aeronautocs and missile design over gut feeling and power.

 

Both approaches are worthy of merit in my eyes, and both command respect. The American were certainly braver and more resouceful.  But results count sadly for them, and they had their time when the LSR was a new thing and hugely backed by companies like Shell, Goodyear and Firestone.



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#40 gruntguru

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 22:10

Nice wrap chunder - thanks.



#41 bigleagueslider

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 04:18

"...Arfons car had a four stage after-burner and he never used  stage three much less stage four..."

 

BR- The J79 engine Arfons used had a single afterburning stage.

 

J79_components.jpg

 

Chunder- The main difference between the Blue Flame and Arfon's Green Monster or Noble's fine efforts is that the Blue Flame used a rocket engine rather than turbine engine(s). There are both pros/cons to using a rocket engine. The rocket engine used by Gabelich could not be throttled, while the turbojet engines used by Arfons and Noble could be throttled. As for the stresses on the tires, what matters most is the CF produced on the tire body by the high rotational speeds. The tire stresses resulting from the vehicle weight is not a significant factor.



#42 chunder27

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 20:23

I do know that Gabelich used a rocket engine, combined with a mix using natural gas hence the name and also the sponsorship deal that came of it. Budweiser used a Fredricks rocket as did SMI Motivator, pretty much the same car with more money thrown at it! But obviously the Bud car had the body of a Sidewinder taged in there too when they realised the rocket wasnt quick enough to go over 700mph.

 

I think Rosco McGlashan is trying to do a record attenpt in a rocket car aswell, and of course Bloodhound uses a hybrid rocket system, but crucially one that you CAN turn off.

 

Blue Flame was a stunning car, perhaps bthe best colour scheme, and maybeonly betted byt eh furst Spirit in looks!



#43 Bob Riebe

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 03:15

"...Arfons car had a four stage after-burner and he never used  stage three much less stage four..."

 

BR- The J79 engine Arfons used had a single afterburning stage.

 

That is not what Arfons said.

 

In 1963, the meanest “Green Monster” of all, a beast with the most powerful powerplant of its day – a General Electric J-79 jet engine boasting 17,500 horsepower with four-stage afterburner – was born. The J79 engine was supposedly classified by the military, and yet Art Arfons drove to a Florida scrap dealer, paid $600 in cash and hauled away the damaged engine. “I didn’t try to chisel down the price,” said Arfons. “I never said nothing, just gave him the money and we put it in the bus. Of course, I didn’t even know at that point whether or not the engine would run.

“There was no sense in trying to straighten out the blades, so I just pulled them out. I figured the engine had more than enough power without them. A few days after I called General Electric, told them I had a J79 and asked them to send a manual. The guy said, ‘you don’t have that engine. You can’t have that engine.’ And I said, ‘well, I sure do.’

 

“The next day or the day after that a Colonel from Washington showed up at the shop and said that’s a classified engine and I can’t have it. I said I bought it; and showed him my sales receipt. The Colonel stomped out. Then I got a legal letter from GE, a real nasty letter, informing me the J79 was made for Marine and Air Force use and it should never be put in a race car.”



#44 bigleagueslider

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 03:21

It's amazing how many of the guys that crashed while making LSR runs in the 60s survived the crash. Here's a picture of Breedlove's wrecked car after making a 525mph run in 1965. He was uninjured in the crash, but he had to swim to safety. Imagine the irony of drowning in a shallow pond of brackish water after surviving a crash at the end of a 525mph run.

 

spirit34.jpg


Edited by bigleagueslider, 11 April 2015 - 03:21.


#45 bigleagueslider

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 04:19

That is not what Arfons said.

 

In 1963, the meanest “Green Monster” of all, a beast with the most powerful powerplant of its day – a General Electric J-79 jet engine boasting 17,500 horsepower with four-stage afterburner – was born. The J79 engine was supposedly classified by the military, and yet Art Arfons drove to a Florida scrap dealer, paid $600 in cash and hauled away the damaged engine. “I didn’t try to chisel down the price,” said Arfons. “I never said nothing, just gave him the money and we put it in the bus. Of course, I didn’t even know at that point whether or not the engine would run.

“There was no sense in trying to straighten out the blades, so I just pulled them out. I figured the engine had more than enough power without them. A few days after I called General Electric, told them I had a J79 and asked them to send a manual. The guy said, ‘you don’t have that engine. You can’t have that engine.’ And I said, ‘well, I sure do.’

 

“The next day or the day after that a Colonel from Washington showed up at the shop and said that’s a classified engine and I can’t have it. I said I bought it; and showed him my sales receipt. The Colonel stomped out. Then I got a legal letter from GE, a real nasty letter, informing me the J79 was made for Marine and Air Force use and it should never be put in a race car.”

Bob Riebe - I love a good story as much as the next guy. But by the time Arfons purchased that scrap engine in 1963, the J79 had gone through numerous upgrades and there were hundreds of worn-out early models sitting in boneyards. By 1963 the J79 engine was not a classified technology. The USAF had retired their fleet of J79 engined F104s by 1960, and at the same time the West Germans began flying F104s with more advanced J79 engines.

 

I can believe that GE had an issue with providing Arfons any technical information regarding the J79, and the same thing would happen today if you asked GE for technical data on one of their legacy military engine designs. But regardless of what you quote in that supposed claim by Arfons, if you look at the image of the J79 I posted above, you'll clearly see that there is only a single afterburning stage used on the engine.



#46 Kelpiecross

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 05:31


How to raise the LSR to 6,000+ mph - bung four wheels on this, strap a person to it and Robert is your uncle.

http://en.wikipedia....sled_030430.jpg

#47 chunder27

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 08:26

As league satys, they cant have been that hard to get hold of coz Breedlove used one in his second Spirit a few years later to take the speed over 600.

 

I do know that in the Thrust cars, Noble struggled to get the Avon working initially, they got a Rolls Royce guy over and ran it tethered at an airport and found out something, that gave them extra power. Noble certainly ran his engines to full power as did Andy Green in SSC.

 

Indeed in their book Green and a few crew were keen to strap in the MORE powerful Spey engines they had in reserve, but the car was taking such a hammering they declined to try any more runs.

 

Ayers did later admit that any more speed from Thrust 2 was liable to lift the front.

 

And don't forget that Breedloves last Sonic car used a J79, but a very modified version I recall.


Edited by chunder27, 11 April 2015 - 08:27.


#48 Bob Riebe

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 16:49

Bob Riebe - I love a good story as much as the next guy. But by the time Arfons purchased that scrap engine in 1963, the J79 had gone through numerous upgrades and there were hundreds of worn-out early models sitting in boneyards. By 1963 the J79 engine was not a classified technology. The USAF had retired their fleet of J79 engined F104s by 1960, and at the same time the West Germans began flying F104s with more advanced J79 engines.

 

I can believe that GE had an issue with providing Arfons any technical information regarding the J79, and the same thing would happen today if you asked GE for technical data on one of their legacy military engine designs. But regardless of what you quote in that supposed claim by Arfons, if you look at the image of the J79 I posted above, you'll clearly see that there is only a single afterburning stage used on the engine.

Unfortunately Art is dead other wise you could send him an e-mail and set him straight by telling him what the truth really is.

 

I will take his word at face value over yours. :smoking:



#49 chunder27

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 17:09

You really think Art would have any idea what email is?



#50 imaginesix

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 19:28

You really think Art would have any idea what email is?

Well, it is pretty fast.