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Has Alonso made a big mistake quitting Ferrari?


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#1201 bazil

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 14:20

The fact he was 40 points in the lead in a car slower than the Red Bull, McLaren and Lotus is the incredible part. You can try and rewrite history as much as you want but people can still watch the old races and see the real evidence first hand. He lost the title because of Grosjean crashing in to him at Spa. i.e it was not his fault.

That is what makes 2012 one of the best seasons by a driver ever. Much better than Vettels titles in dominant cars or Hamilton winning because he's driving a supercar against someone like Rosberg.

 

Still, keep on making things up, it' like the monkey theorem, hitting random keys on a typrewrite, I'm sure after another 1000 posts you will write something that is a fact with context.

 

 

Alonso lost the championship because of Spa? Utter nonsense - if Vettel's car hadn't broken down from the lead in Valencia, the events of Spa would have made little difference.  There's no doubt he drove a fantastic season in 2012, but his position was largely due to factors external to Ferrari.

 

We could also talk of Hamilton's reliability - dropping out of the lead of three races, retiring from the German GP where he would have likely scored a very good haul of points, and suffering an anti-roll bar failure in Korea while up at the sharp end, without which would have almost certainly moved Alonso to 3rd in the championship.  The point being - what-ifs are not facts.



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#1202 bazil

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 14:30

It doesn't matter if Ferrari are the second best team on "merit" or "luck" this year, what matter is that they are still second best.  They may be "taking the fight to Mercedes" but they have still lost three times out of four in this fight.  My point is that this merely matches their best year with Alonso on results, which at the end of the day is what Fred probably cares most about and, consequently, I doubt he regrets his move as a result.

 

McLaren are further back than Ferrari were in 1996 but my point is that for many people Schumi's move there made little sense at the time and he had the last laugh.  I can see parallels between that time and Alonso and McLaren in 2015, that's all. 

 

Again, Alonso finished 2nd due to external forces, he didn't finish 2nd because he was at the sharp end, trading wins with Vettel.  So it does matter that they are the clear second fastest team this year, running Mercedes close, and having a positive development outlook, as it looks like Ferrari are coming with a car that CAN (and have) fight for wins.  Vettel didn't win because a Mercedes broke down, Raikkonen massively outpaced Mercedes and, if not for a strategy that arguably cost them a few seconds, could have feasibly been on the top step.

 

I've no doubt that Alonso is currently looking at Ferrari and wishing he never moved, instead to be fighting for the win.  His move to McLaren would have been from a basis of seeing them scoring points, and moving them to challenging for wins (much like Hamilton did), not from points scorers to barely able to make Q2 and finish races.



#1203 bazil

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 14:34

Strange that Webber didn't have these issues, Webber won twice in  the first half of the season which shows how dominant the Red Bull was, Vettel simply had a poor first half, with the laughable excuses the he needed half a season to adjust, all this while his 38yr old teammate is winning in the same car.

 

Alonso qualifying 6th in Spa was a fantastic result, much better than Ferrari expected, it was slower than the McLarens, Red bulls and Lotus in that race. The Ferrari  was pathetic in qualy at Spa that weekend, Massa with no problems qualified 14th, he couldn't even make Q1. Again anyone who watches these races back will know this, not your rewriting of history trying to make the Ferrari seem better than it was.

 

Don't bring Webber into this - it's just embarrassing.



#1204 redraven9

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 15:17

Had Alonso had a non-DNF weekend in Suzuka and Spa (thanks to the fantastic drivers of the Lotus) he would have taken the championship, in the 3rd or 4th best car that year.



#1205 GreenTree

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 15:37

Had Alonso had a non-DNF weekend in Suzuka and Spa (thanks to the fantastic drivers of the Lotus) he would have taken the championship, in the 3rd or 4th best car that year.

Suzuka DNF was thanks to fantastic driving by Alonso himself.

#1206 redraven9

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 15:39

Suzuka DNF was thanks to fantastic driving by Alonso himself.

Yes, because Kimi is not known for first lap contacts.



#1207 redraven9

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 15:49

Please stick to the incident you mentioned, i.e Suzuka 2012.

Blaming other driver for Alonso's own mistake is stretching it.

After rewatching it, it does seem like a race incident. But there is still Grosjean.



#1208 AustinF1

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 15:50

It's funny. When other drivers get a rear tire cut down by another driver's front wing, the driver in back is  pretty much universally considered to be at least marginally at fault. Alonso is the only driver I've seen who is accused of being at fault from the front in this kind of incident. 

 

Par for the course, I guess.



#1209 Atreiu

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 16:11

It's funny. When other drivers get a rear tire cut down by another driver's front wing, the driver in back is  pretty much universally considered to be at least marginally at fault. Alonso is the only driver I've seen who is accused of being at fault from the front in this kind of incident. 

 

Par for the course, I guess.

 

Circumstances...

 

If you rewatch the start you'll notice that it was Alonso who crossed the track and pushed Kimi onto the very edge, not Kimi who tried an impossible move, or sneaked from behind, and cut Alonso's tyre. Alonso should have been more cautious. Kimi was just minding his business and actually avoided a collision which would have taken him out.



#1210 MikeV1987

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 16:28

Alonso lost the championship because of Spa? Utter nonsense - if Vettel's car hadn't broken down from the lead in Valencia, the events of Spa would have made little difference.  There's no doubt he drove a fantastic season in 2012, but his position was largely due to factors external to Ferrari.

 

We could also talk of Hamilton's reliability - dropping out of the lead of three races, retiring from the German GP where he would have likely scored a very good haul of points, and suffering an anti-roll bar failure in Korea while up at the sharp end, without which would have almost certainly moved Alonso to 3rd in the championship.  The point being - what-ifs are not facts.

 

It's very easy to cherry pick spa as an excuse to losing out on that WDC, no mention of squeezing Raikkonen's Lotus onto the grass at Suzuka and putting himself out of the race right at the start though.

 

He also had the benefit of his team mate taking grid penalties for him and also handing positions to him, Was webber doing that for vettel? HELL no. lol


Edited by MikeV1987, 22 April 2015 - 16:30.


#1211 SophieB

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 16:30

Enough warnings have been given to stick to the quiz question, closed.