197 replies to this topic

[baddog]

Well the question is in the title.

This is far our in conspiracy land for me, but for a driver to go from dominant WDC to hopeless in one race, and then to go back to fine form the first race out of the team the next year has me suspecting strongly that he just threw the year in order to get out of his contract.

His responses in press conferences about last year also ring false, always making a big point of saying the car was good, the team were good, I just couldn't get it together etc.

Was this the only way he could get into Ferrari where he wanted to be? Does a 4 times WDC forget how to drive for exactly one year?

[WilliamsFan25]

what a stupid question. of course not. 

[GSiebert]

Stupid question. Won't answer.

[HPT]

Of course not. No competitive driver would deliberately want to get beaten by their team mate just to get out of a contract. I'd imagine there would be plenty of other ways to do it without hurting his reputation, such as showing real speed against Dan and then dumping the car by making a 'mistake' for example.

And the Ferrari drive wasn't available until after Monza or Singapore. He was just bad last year against Dan. Stop making excuses for his poor performance.

[Zava]

Deliberate or just a bad year? 

-yes

-no

-don't know

 

my answer is 11. I'm missing this option.

[lbennie]

no offence mate, but this is a pretty ridiculous thread

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

This is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories I've heard in years. I can only hope you were drunk or something when you were typing it, as it'd explain the complete lunacy of the suggestion.

[pUs]

Don't think there's any sort of conspiracy. However, I also find it quite strange. He went straight into 2015 in ultra-competitive mode again, just like in any of his title-winning seasons. What he actually did in 2014 and why remains a bit of a mystery..

[ensign14]

Deliberate or just a bad year?

1. Yes
2. No
3. Don't know

 

So if I answer yes, am I saying "yes, it was deliberate" or "yes, it was just a bad year"?

[Elba]

Interesting theory indeed bordering on conspiracy land but interesting nevertheless.

 

I don't believe he deliberately threw away the season to make the move to Ferrari happen but I'd understand his motivation dropping once he knew the move to Ferrari was on for 2015. So voted no, just a bad year perhaps influenced later on by a lack of motivation.

[andrewf1]

[MikeMM]

Stupid question.

[aramos]

Or the more reasonable option, he was facing another top level driver.

 

Remember, Raikkonen had a pretty atrocious 2014 too so just because Vettel beats him it doesn't necessarily mean that he's driving fantastically to do so.

 

The way you're talking is like Vettel is beating Alonso or Hamilton as a team mate suddenly.

[DILLIGAF]

No. Only a moron would deliberately drive poorly and Vettel is no moron.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Stupid question, ridiculous thread.

[Seanspeed]

Vettel was not hopeless last year. Ricciardo certainly had the edge on him consistently, but Vettel was far from floundering around like he couldn't do anything.

2014 will always be a stain on Vettel's record, though.

[anachronox]

Nonsense 

[sergey1308]

Deliberately? No, of course. May be he had some problems with motivations, he needed changes. Ferrari inspire him, give him the second breath.

[pRy]

Was this the only way he could get into Ferrari where he wanted to be? Does a 4 times WDC forget how to drive for exactly one year?

 

I think it was just a combination of factors. The 2014 car didn't suit his driving style which is important regardless of who you are or how many titles you have. He had a young highly driven team mate who was perhaps pushing him in ways Webber wasn't. He had already begun to flirt with the idea of moving to Ferrari and so that will have been distracting him when things weren't going well at Redbull. And he'd already won 4 titles with the team so his inner team motivation will have been a little lacking.

 

Christian Horner isn't stupid. I very much doubt any driver under his watch could "throw" a performance especially not across an entire season. They have so much access to data and he would know Vettel's body language better than anyone. One or two races maybe but an entire season?

 

I think it was just the natural end to the relationship. He just wasn't that into Redbull anymore and had already started sleeping with Ferrari. 

[ensign14]

Well, Vettel is not as far ahead of Kimi as Alonso was...so I vote Vettel is the same as last year, just that Ricciardo was better, and Alonso and Hamilton are right.

[Jon83]

The internet is a crazy place. 

[P123]

Seriously?  I suppose if you want to assure yourself there is no way Vettel could have been beaten by Ricciardo then it's a comforting reason to hold on to.

 

Different teammate, different regulations...  and this season is only two races old.

 

PS- your poll needs adjusted.  two questions in one. 

Edited by P123, 30 March 2015 - 09:01.

[Seanspeed]

Seriously?  I suppose if you want to assure yourself there is no way Vettel could have been beaten by Ricciardo then it's a comforting reason to hold on to.

Is OP a Vettel fan? Cuz that would explain it.

[Cenotaph]

Of course not.

 

Besides, Vettel is just starting with Ferrari, time will tell if he will fare better or not. At the moment, it's just a great start, Raikkonen had it too in 2007.

Edited by Cenotaph, 30 March 2015 - 10:29.

[DaftTrunk]

A racing driver, especially a highly competitive one like a World Champion hates losing at anything. Period.

 

You should take off your tinfoil hat, it blurs your common sense.

[Crossmax]

So is this about 2013 or 2014? Cause the poll says one thing, and the thread title another. Coming to think of it... doesn't matter.

[Donkey]

Finger boy who would ignore team orders to win at any cost?

 

Don't think so...

[EthanM]

Vettel had a bad 2014, probably burned out from 4 championships in a row, probably car didn't suit him, probably lacked the motivation to race williams for 3rd - 4th. But he was also a fair bit unlucky. No he didn't throw the season, that'd be dumb.But I am sure Ferrari revived his hunger/motivation

[Ikebana]

I think he simply got beat, sorry. Like Kimi last year or Nico.

If the internet community is going to excuse their drivers on "he did it deliberately", it'll get even more tedious to discuss about F1 here.

Edited by Ikebana, 30 March 2015 - 09:13.

[EthanM]

I think he simply got beat, sorry. Like Kimi last year or Nico.

If the internet community is going to excuse it on "he did it deliberately", it'll get even more tedious to discuss about F1 here.

 

I think the conspiracy stems from Vettel needing to be lower than third in the WDC to trigger his exit clause from RB not from a desire to change history

[The Kanisteri]

Kimi Räikkönen and Sebastian Vettel had in 2014 a car which didn't suit at all for both of drivers.

Still a lot you think Räikkönen is just crap and showed his true pace and he lost his motivation in 2014. Vettel throw toys out from pram because newbie humiliated him and he gave up with whole season of 2014.

 

Is that what you people really think? Or have you thought possibility that car for Kimi and Sebastian liking in 2014 was dud? Would Alonso and Ricciardo in 2015 Ferrari being able to lap entire field - including Mercedes cars because they were so superior agains 2014 team mates?

[pizzalover]

Throw? No.

 

Take it easy/bit of a rest/not too bothered? Yes. 

[itsnoe30]

No. He was even with Ricciardo in qualy pretty much, he just couldn't get the tires to last. His speed was there, just not the tire management. It was most likely due to a car which he couldn't set up the way he wanted to. Just like Kimi wasn't as bad as he looked last year.

[itsnoe30]

I think the conspiracy stems from Vettel needing to be lower than third in the WDC to trigger his exit clause from RB not from a desire to change history

Is this a real clause or a rumor?

[SealTheDiffuser]

close this crap

[Newbrray]

Honestly there has got to be a set of criteria for threads to be started. This is just nonsensical and one of the most stupid questions I ever heard. 

 

its like asking did Kimi intentionally puncture his tyre so as to showcase the might of Ferrari with his comeback.

[rasul]

IMO, there was a number of reasons why he had a bad year, and they had little to do with conspiracy theories:

1) being burned out after 4 WDCs, lack of motivation and commitment; I remember people making a fuss when he left tests early to return to his newborn child and wife.

2) Webber said during Australian GP 2015 that Schumi's (who was his good friend and idol) accident has affected Vettel's state of mind very negatively and thrown him off balance (I don't know how Webber knows it, but he's still pretty close to RBR, so he probably knows a thing or two about it).

3) he got complacent after years of driving a well-balanced car; that's why RIC who was driving a worse car at STR could adapt to RBR's car better. Vettel honestly admitted that he struggled to extract everything out of the car and that the Ferrari suits him better and allows him to do his thing.

....

and he wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. He had a lot of bad luck and car troubles too. 

Edited by rasul, 30 March 2015 - 09:27.

[EthanM]

Is this a real clause or a rumor?

 

it's a clause, RB themselves confirmed it when they announced he was leaving

[Mandzipop]

Christian Horner said what Seb's problem in 2014 was. He wasn't getting enough throttle feedback. He's getting it with the Ferrari.

 

I do think a lot of things happened to Seb last year which contributed to his off year. Firstly I think he was massively affected by Michael's accident. Then he became a dad. He was leaving straight after the race and often before the debriefs (if the rumours are to be believed) right from the start of the season. This was before Dan was beating Seb on merit.

 

Did he throw it, I don't think so. Did he potentially take advantage of the opportunity to get out of his contract on 30th September (his reported get out clause was finishing below 3rd by the 30th September)? That was activated at Spa. He couldn't get in the top 3 by 30th September after that race.In hindsight 4th would have been enough to activate the get out clause, at the time he needed to be 5th, just in case Rosberg caught and overtook Dan.

 

It was after Spa that the tone of Ferrari changed towards Alonso.

 

So I do have a question mark over his result in Spa. But that is my tin foil hat theory.

[Seanspeed]

Kimi Räikkönen and Sebastian Vettel had in 2014 a car which didn't suit at all for both of drivers.
Still a lot you think Räikkönen is just crap and showed his true pace and he lost his motivation in 2014. Vettel throw toys out from pram because newbie humiliated him and he gave up with whole season of 2014.
 
Is that what you people really think? Or have you thought possibility that car for Kimi and Sebastian liking in 2014 was dud? Would Alonso and Ricciardo in 2015 Ferrari being able to lap entire field - including Mercedes cars because they were so superior agains 2014 team mates?

Its obvious Kimi and Vettel struggled particularly with their cars last year.

And I don't think many people think Kimi is crap or Vettel threw his toys out of the pram last year. These things aren't true. But when they were previously being treated as top drivers, it certainly throws a wrench in the argument. Has Lewis or Alonso ever been beaten like that? No, they haven't. They may not always get on with a car, but they adapt and they typically make the most of what they have. That's something we didn't see from either Vettel or Kimi(especially) last year. So it should definitely at least raise some question marks.

[EthanM]

Its obvious Kimi and Vettel struggled particularly with their cars last year.

And I don't think many people think Kimi is crap or Vettel threw his toys out of the pram last year. These things aren't true. But when they were previously being treated as top drivers, it certainly throws a wrench in the argument. Has Lewis or Alonso ever been beaten like that? No, they haven't. They may not always get on with a car, but they adapt and they typically make the most of what they have. That's something we didn't see from either Vettel or Kimi(especially) last year. So it should definitely at least raise some question marks.

 

didn't Lewis get beaten in 2011, by Button?

[itsnoe30]

Its obvious Kimi and Vettel struggled particularly with their cars last year.

And I don't think many people think Kimi is crap or Vettel threw his toys out of the pram last year. These things aren't true. But when they were previously being treated as top drivers, it certainly throws a wrench in the argument. Has Lewis or Alonso ever been beaten like that? No, they haven't. They may not always get on with a car, but they adapt and they typically make the most of what they have. That's something we didn't see from either Vettel or Kimi(especially) last year. So it should definitely at least raise some question marks.

Lewis was beaten in 2011. Alnso never had an elite teammate, except Trulli who did well against him IIRC and Hamilton who beat him rookie year.

Edited by itsnoe30, 30 March 2015 - 09:30.

[itsnoe30]

it's a clause, RB themselves confirmed it when they announced he was leaving

 

 

Christian Horner said what Seb's problem in 2014 was. He wasn't getting enough throttle feedback. He's getting it with the Ferrari.

 

I do think a lot of things happened to Seb last year which contributed to his off year. Firstly I think he was massively affected by Michael's accident. Then he became a dad. He was leaving straight after the race and often before the debriefs (if the rumours are to be believed) right from the start of the season. This was before Dan was beating Seb on merit.

 

Did he throw it, I don't think so. Did he potentially take advantage of the opportunity to get out of his contract on 30th September (his reported get out clause was finishing below 3rd by the 30th September)? That was activated at Spa. He couldn't get in the top 3 by 30th September after that race.In hindsight 4th would have been enough to activate the get out clause, at the time he needed to be 5th, just in case Rosberg caught and overtook Dan.

 

It was after Spa that the tone of Ferrari changed towards Alonso.

 

So I do have a question mark over his result in Spa. But that is my tin foil hat theory.

These are very interesting posts. I had no idea about the clause. Interesting.

[Seanspeed]

didn't Lewis get beaten in 2011, by Button?

I never said these guys have never been beaten. But they've never been beaten in the manner that Vettel and Kimi were. Button finished ahead on points in 2011, but Lewis beat Button in plenty of races that year and had some really great drives as well. His win at the Nurburgring is one of the best performances of his career.

[MrEastDokdo]

The answer is NO.

 

Vettel loves racing and is too competitive by nature to do such a thing.

[OO7]

I think it was obvious from the very first race in Aus that he threw the race and was planning to throw the season.  He made a poor job of it however, as it was patently obvious.

[DaddyCool]

I think Seans point is that neither Alonso or Hamilton got beaten by a teammate by such a margin as Vettel and Kimi had been last year.

[baddog]

Okay it IS a bit kooky (no need to get upset though!).. but once it was clear there was no hope of a championship run and with what we now know about his contract clauses and his desire to go to Ferrari it isn't completely beyond the realms of possibility.

[Coral]

No, I don't think Vettel "threw" 2014. The car did not suit his driving style and to be honest I think Vettel had been at Red Bull for too long. The same thing happened to Lewis at McLaren...he had been at the team for too long, the "magic" had gone. Familiarity breeds contempt. Vettel looked subdued and downcast last year, however I have noticed the difference in him since he joined Ferrari...even before yesterday's win, he looked happy, refreshed...like a different man. A change is as good as a rest!

[YoungGun]

Delibrate or not, you can not argue that he made the right decision.