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'Girl F1' : Bernie proposes second F1 featuring an all female lineup...


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#1 Graveltrappen

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 14:53

http://www.planetf1....emale-F1-series

Now I'm all for some all-female action, but by separating them from the current f1 drivers, you're basically saying they're 'not as good' in which case what is the point?! (Obviously none... I get that).

Bernies last few marbles rolling out? Or maybe he's already sold the rights to a 'Barbie Ecclestone' doll for the young girls who are obviously going to flock to watch Girl F1 now that the men are all banned...

Sigh.

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#2 Sin

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:00

yeah like I wrote somewhere else... shows that he is too old....

 

I don't want an extra F1 for women, I rather want women to take part in current F1

 

Edit: also yaaaay 2000 posts and I feel like at least 1500 are in the Multi 21 thread from that year


Edited by Sin, 31 March 2015 - 15:01.


#3 Juan Kerr

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:01

I think its a great idea, it's clearly harder if you're a woman to get into the sport let alone do well at it. You only have to look at how many sports are gender separate to see it's a good idea not because Bernie thinks so.



#4 MikeV1987

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:04

^ I really don't see why motorsport should be gender separate.


Edited by MikeV1987, 31 March 2015 - 15:04.


#5 Nemo1965

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:04

This is a hard one. On the one hand: I like the idea. On the other hand: just imagine that a girl wins five championships in a row, she is like the Senna of Girl F1. Then she promotes - it is almost mandatory - to GP2 or F1. And she is mediocre. Or even really slow. Then the Girl F1 will be more damaging to the chances of women drivers in F1 than something else.



#6 WalterTrout

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:04

I think its a great idea, it's clearly harder if you're a woman to get into the sport let alone do well at it. You only have to look at how many sports are gender separate to see it's a good idea not because Bernie thinks so.

 

The physical attributes required to drive a car competitively do not separate the genders.



#7 Nemo1965

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:11

The physical attributes required to drive a car competitively do not separate the genders.

 

Indeed, and that would be the 'damaging' thing if a girl from that female championship crosses over to F1 and fails... in tennis or other sports the difference between men and women can be partly explained by the physical differences. Men have more muscle-mass, are taller, have less body-fat (disclaimer:  I know there are some very lean top-female athletes, I am talking generally here). There is no way too hide. The only reason that there are so few female drivers are that the number of boys starting with karts (to name one stepping ladder) are 8 to 2 or perhaps 9 to 1.

 

To be quite honest: I fear that if a really good girl, say, a girl as good as Magnus Ericsson, would drive in the F1 championships for girls, she would smash the opposition... just because of the above said skewed statistics. You see the same in tennis: Kim Clijsters came back after delivering a baby, having a year off... and wins the US Open. Purely because there is such a gulf between the really good girls and all the rest. Events like that are really damaging for the WTA tour, and a similar scenario in motor-racing, well...


Edited by Nemo1965, 31 March 2015 - 15:12.


#8 sopa

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:11

^ I really don't see why motorsport should be gender separate.

 

If you look at any physical sports, they are separated by gender. So from performance point of view it makes sense to have a separate class. But as in terms of driving standards it will be "inferior" to F1, I am not convinced how much sponsorship this series is able to generate to make it sustainable. Motorsports is a completely different ballgame to other sports in terms of funding.



#9 ANF

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:15

One of the great thing about motorsports is that it's unisex.



#10 sopa

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:17

Indeed, and that would be the 'damaging' thing if a girl from that female championship crosses over to F1 and fails... in tennis or other sports the difference between men and women can be partly explained by the physical differences. Men have more muscle-mass, are taller, have less body-fat (disclaimer:  I know there are some very lean top-female athletes, I am talking generally here). There is no way too hide. The only reason that there are so few female drivers are that the number of boys starting with karts (to name one stepping ladder) are 8 to 2 or perhaps 9 to 1.

 

To be quite honest: I fear that if a really good girl, say, a girl as good as Magnus Ericsson, would drive in the F1 championships for girls, she would smash the opposition... just because of the above said skewed statistics. You see the same in tennis: Kim Clijsters came back after delivering a baby, having a year off... and wins the US Open. Purely because there is such a gulf between the really good girls and all the rest. Events like that are really damaging for the WTA tour, and a similar scenario in motor-racing, well...

 

I know there are some women racing around in various series, but are there really enough of them to make a "Girl F1" sustainable? Because this is going to be a problem. Yeah, if they have a 'special' series, maybe some more girls will be aspiring to become a racing driver. But the funding issue, starting from grassroots level, will still be a big issue.

 

I think the idea sounds interesting, but it has never been implemented so far, because from practical point of view it has lacked depth. Can you find enough remotely competent female racing drivers to get a full grid of 20 open-wheel (F1) racing cars?

 

IIRC in the 1990s there was a ladies cup in WRC. But it wasn't sustainable as there were barely any competitors.



#11 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:27

What a stupid idea.

 

How about Bernie does something useful and sponsors an all-female GP2 team or two?  A Bernie academy, similar to the Red Bull academy etc. That way competent racers like Simona de Silverstro etc could at least have a shot at getting an F1 seat on merit...



#12 MikeV1987

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:29

If you look at any physical sports, they are separated by gender. So from performance point of view it makes sense to have a separate class. But as in terms of driving standards it will be "inferior" to F1, I am not convinced how much sponsorship this series is able to generate to make it sustainable. Motorsports is a completely different ballgame to other sports in terms of funding.

 

So? It's not as if they are playing a full contact sport here, I think the idea is very sexist tbh.


Edited by MikeV1987, 31 March 2015 - 15:30.


#13 Nemo1965

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:31

What a stupid idea.

 

How about Bernie does something useful and sponsors an all-female GP2 team or two?  A Bernie academy, similar to the Red Bull academy etc. That way competent racers like Simona de Silverstro etc could at least have a shot at getting an F1 seat on merit...

 

A much, much better idea. People on this board may not know this, but the career of Jos Verstappen was actually started like this... Huub Rothengatter wanted to bring a new Dutch driver into F1, approached Marlboro Netherlands... who were really in to the idea. So Rothengatter looked around, selected several candidates (Jos was one of a couple), and ultimately chose the father of Max Verstappen. From there, Rothengatter and a team of sponsors and advisers brought Verstappen sr. to the top (and then failed in their management, to be honest, and Jos failed too in his own management).

 

So doing the same to find the next female F1 driver would be a good idea.



#14 Clatter

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:32

If you look at any physical sports, they are separated by gender. So from performance point of view it makes sense to have a separate class. But as in terms of driving standards it will be "inferior" to F1, I am not convinced how much sponsorship this series is able to generate to make it sustainable. Motorsports is a completely different ballgame to other sports in terms of funding.

The physical aspects of driving an F1 car does not require a seperate series for females. But if he thinks it's a good idea then why doesn't he just introduce a GP2F series. It would be much cheaper to do and they could follow the F1 circus along with GP2.



#15 sopa

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:34

So? It's not as if they are playing a full contact sport here, I think the idea is very sexist tbh.

 

"Physical" as in requiring physical effort. To bring an example of a non-physical sport, in chess male and female are not 'separated' to my knowledge. Is motorsports similar to chess? Or sports that require physical effort?



#16 Atreiu

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:34

Goes straight into my 'whatever/miscellaneous - mental files'.



#17 rhukkas

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:36

https://twitter.com/...928508063731712

 

yh... so what's that about a required gender separation?



#18 Cenotaph

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:36

Motorsport is probably the only sport that doesn't need to be gender separate, making it so would be a step backwards. No reason why women can't compete in the top tier of motorsport, making a lower formula just for them to aspire to is, in my honest opinion, diminishing them.

 

Besides, I don't think it would be affordable.


Edited by Cenotaph, 31 March 2015 - 15:37.


#19 sopa

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:38

The physical aspects of driving an F1 car does not require a seperate series for females. But if he thinks it's a good idea then why doesn't he just introduce a GP2F series. It would be much cheaper to do and they could follow the F1 circus along with GP2.

 

Perhaps.

 

"F1 level" at the moment would not be sustainable anyway. So it would be needed to be done on a smaller formula level. 

One upside of such series could be though that it can promote car racing among female competitors. Because proportionally they are a clear minority right now.



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#20 brr

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:41

Great, grid full of Carmen Jordas. A winning strategy would be to start from the pitlane.



#21 Clatter

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:45

"Physical" as in requiring physical effort. To bring an example of a non-physical sport, in chess male and female are not 'separated' to my knowledge. Is motorsports similar to chess? Or sports that require physical effort?

Whilst it requires some physical effort it is not enough to seperate the sexes. In the same way way men and women compete against each other in show jumping and horse racing, both of which require quite a bit of physical effort.



#22 Clatter

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:47

Perhaps.

 

"F1 level" at the moment would not be sustainable anyway. So it would be needed to be done on a smaller formula level. 

One upside of such series could be though that it can promote car racing among female competitors. Because proportionally they are a clear minority right now.

That would be the biggest benefit of a female only series. It would be interesting to see if they would gain more sponsorship in those circumstances.



#23 sopa

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:49

Whilst it requires some physical effort it is not enough to seperate the sexes. In the same way way men and women compete against each other in show jumping and horse racing, both of which require quite a bit of physical effort.

 

OK, I take your point.:)



#24 Clatter

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:50

Motorsport is probably the only sport that doesn't need to be gender separate, making it so would be a step backwards. No reason why women can't compete in the top tier of motorsport, making a lower formula just for them to aspire to is, in my honest opinion, diminishing them.

 

Besides, I don't think it would be affordable.

Only? You have to be kidding.



#25 pRy

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:50

No reason why women can't compete in the top tier of motorsport, making a lower formula just for them to aspire to is, in my honest opinion, diminishing them.

 

That'll be why we've not had a female driver in an F1 race since 1976. Let's not pretend that it's easy right now for a female driver to get a race seat in F1. It simply isn't. Susie Wolff is perhaps the closest we've got at the moment and it appears she's been overlooked as the Williams reserve driver in favour of Adrian Sutil which says all we need to know about F1's attitude towards female drivers in 2015.

 

I think Bernie's point is by having a high ranking series that's racing along side the F1 series this not only provides an easy to access series for women but it also allows their talents to be observed by a wide audience of people and more importantly a grid of F1 teams who may decide they'd like to have one of them drive their car. This then motivates younger women who are perhaps toying with the idea of motor racing to think "I could one day race in the top female series and who knows.. maybe get into F1 itself". It's promoting women in motorsport. Surely a good thing?

 

Susie says: "I can hand on heart say it would not interest me at all to win such a race. I would rather not be in the race because what am I winning? A race where they've just looked for any girl to make a grid up." - Which sums up the problem currently. There aren't enough female drivers. But that's not to say that problem couldn't be addressed with a female series. I think it's better to have something than have nothing and keep living with this potential pipe dream that one day a woman will break into F1. Yes it might happen but the chances are it would be a flash in the pan moment and we'd be quickly back to the current situation.

 

So I actually think it's an idea worth considering. It's a shame Susie has dismissed it out of hand but it's understandable as she will be used to doing things the hard way. This idea is more aimed at younger female drivers who might like the idea of racing but just see no viable way of getting anywhere currently.



#26 Emilvang

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:51

"Physical" as in requiring physical effort. To bring an example of a non-physical sport, in chess male and female are not 'separated' to my knowledge. Is motorsports similar to chess? Or sports that require physical effort?

 

There actually is a Women Championship in chess, separate from the men. You know why? Because chess is/was primarily a male activity, which could discourage women from playing the game professionally.The same could be said about motorsport, mostly dudes driving. But in chess the best woman players do get to play against men, which also could be used in motorsport. If for example Visser turns out to be a decent driver, she could race in F1 alongside the males, while the rich no-talent drivers like Carmen Jorda could have her fun in woman F1 while still being a "test-driver" for Lotus.



#27 FerrariV12

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:52

Didn't they try this a few years back "Formula Woman" or something. I think despite the name it was for touring cars, needless to say, it was launched with a lot of fanfare and TV coverage in place, and also needless to say, it tanked pretty sharpish.

 

Plus in terms of the quality of the field - depth wise, that could be put together. People who moan about the field spread in modern F1 would have a field day if you had say a de Silvestro and a Jorda on the same grid.



#28 brr

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:52

I don't get the idea of trying to influence the diversity of people taking up a sport, or whatever else. If majority of women want to have nothing to do with motor racing, let them. Bernie, as always, has a different perspective since he runs a showbusiness.



#29 repete

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 15:54

I actually think this is a good idea.

 

We dont see many women in motorsport. Giving them a top tier racing class may inspire more females to pursue it. Which in turn will give a larger pool of possible top tier women talent. Which quite frankly, does not exist right now. Its more "oh hey, your pretty, wanna be a test/developement driver?".

 

If its run like a real serious series a la WNBA, instead of a mocu-series a la female football (US style, not euro), it should help highlight top female talent and potentially get them a seat into the unisex top tier racing class.

 

It all depends on if they can make the series appear/run legit. Getting the top female talent, not just the pretty ones. Treating it like a real racing series, real legit cars (not gp2/fr3.5, It should be between that and F1). Allow developement, but actually keep cost down. Pretty much make it what F1 needs to aspire to on the money front. Heck they can use it as a beta test.

 

But knowing Bernie, he wants full Female Bikini/body paint pit crews etc...



#30 Graveltrappen

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:02

I was surprised when Wolff got passed over by williams when it looked like Bottas might be out of action for Malaysia and they employed Sutil and made a point of ruling out Susie racing. She was probably massively pissed off by that...

Still surprises me that someone like Marussia doesn't field a female driver, if simply for the PR it would bring the team and the back of the grid...

#31 MikeV1987

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:04

Wolff doesn't have a super licence. Hiring Sutil was a safe bet incase Bottas had more back problems, they had no one else who could replace him if needed.


Edited by MikeV1987, 31 March 2015 - 16:06.


#32 JAW97

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:11

The problem I have with it is the fact that if one woman demolishes everyone in the female series, gets a shot at F1 and doesn't perform, it'd be 1 step forward and about 5 steps back. It'd completely dispel any chance of any woman getting a drive in the immediate preceding future, as the mentality that women can't compete at the top level would be stronger than ever.

#33 RA2

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:13

Sounds more like a backdoor entry for Bernie's Red Bull Customer F1 with V8 dream



#34 FerrariV12

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:17

One thing that struck me trying to assemble in my head a fictitious grid for such a series, was that the two women "closest" to an F1 seat in terms of team links, Wolff and Jorda, would probably be those towards the back of said imaginary grid, with the exception of Milka Duno.

 

Maybe I'm wrong and Wolff's recent F1 experience might give her a short term edge over someone like Calderon or Cerruti, or Powell if she ever gets funding, but she hasn't really shown anything through her career, a quick Wiki (I know...) of her career summary suggests she has never won a car race in a recognised series. 4 British FR2.0 podiums over a decade ago seems to be the high point of her career.

 

I'm surprised that people are surprised that Williams didn't consider her for a drive in a Grand Prix where points are on offer.


Edited by FerrariV12, 31 March 2015 - 16:18.


#35 Nonesuch

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:21

It's obvious that any knock-offs aren't going to be 'F1 for women', just as the A1GP races weren't really Grand Prix races. It takes more than marketing to make a name mean something.

 

But regardless of the merits of this concept, who is going to drive these cars?



#36 rhukkas

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:28

I actually think this is a good idea.

 

We dont see many women in motorsport. Giving them a top tier racing class may inspire more females to pursue it. Which in turn will give a larger pool of possible top tier women talent. Which quite frankly, does not exist right now. Its more "oh hey, your pretty, wanna be a test/developement driver?".

 

If its run like a real serious series a la WNBA, instead of a mocu-series a la female football (US style, not euro), it should help highlight top female talent and potentially get them a seat into the unisex top tier racing class.

 

It all depends on if they can make the series appear/run legit. Getting the top female talent, not just the pretty ones. Treating it like a real racing series, real legit cars (not gp2/fr3.5, It should be between that and F1). Allow developement, but actually keep cost down. Pretty much make it what F1 needs to aspire to on the money front. Heck they can use it as a beta test.

 

But knowing Bernie, he wants full Female Bikini/body paint pit crews etc...

 

Top female talent wouldn't want an all female grid. 

 

By the way Michelle Mouton, Beitske Visser (P2 today in WSR test), Lotta Hellberg etc... might have somethign to say about not seeing women in motorsport.

 

You do see them. Socalled 'motorsport fans' iare just too F1 obsessed. Everything must come through F1 to be 'valid'. It's very harmful. Maybe if a bigger deal was made out of the drivers I have mentioned we wouldn't be sitting here coming up with gimmicks.


Edited by rhukkas, 31 March 2015 - 16:29.


#37 repete

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:37

Maybe if the drivers you mentioned would win a lower series ( i know beitske was legit in a kart), they would have a bigger deal made of them. The top talent won't want an all female grid, but the talent pool is too small to ever really see females in the upper tiers of motorsport. To increase talent pool, you need to increase the awareness and the potential for money.

 

The series doesnt need to be around forever, it just needs to jumpstart a larger female involvement in motorsport. It probably wont happen, but i really dont see any other way to potentially bring more females into motorsport.



#38 Sanzx81

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:49

I think this is a stupid idea and it would lead to the sexes being segregated in racing which would keep some people thinking women aren't good enough to race with men.

I've always thought that one day a women would come along who is very talented and dedicated and enter F1 and win races. I'm a guy btw and I honestly believe that, creating a female only series would be bad and really not help imo.

#39 Fastcake

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:50

If Bernie was really serious about it, he would have subbed Simona de Silvestro to race at Sauber. She was the best female to come close to an F1 car for quite some time.

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#40 Jon83

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:51

If it is a grid full of the likes of Carmen Jorda then I am all for it  :love:



#41 jonpollak

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 16:57

 F1 is SO hard to drive..

A woman would NEVER be able to deal with all the physical stress and strain let alone have the mental aptitude to analyze all that stuff while driving.

 

Oh no, we need a stand alone series !!!

 

Jesus....

Jp



#42 Skett

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 17:36

Quite frankly a lot of girls are going to be insulted by the idea, and the racing just wouldn't get any exposure past the first few races. As someone else said, we probably just need a few female drivers to be picked up and sponsored at a young age, like Mclaren did with Hamilton and like Red Bull does with their drivers. In fact I'm surprised Red Bull don't have more female drivers as it is. Just shows how few girls actually get into it really, as there really is no reason that girls would be any worse than boys



#43 superden

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 17:49

What a sh*t idea.

:lol:

#44 anneomoly

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 17:50

I can't think of a single sport where women compete against men successfully on an equal footing, not even with horsepower

 

Oh wait. I just linked to a sport with probably a similar danger level to motorsport (unfortunately, possibly worse), where women and men compete against each other on an equal footing, and the last two world champions were women. Biggest difference between eventing and motorsport? Just the participation gender split at all levels. I wouldn't even suspect there's that much of a difference in viewing figures (BTCC reckons it gets a 40% female audience share)

 

Get more girls into karting by running girls only days at karting tracks, sure. But then get the best ones and encourage them to try it for real instead of segregating them away to be ignored.


Edited by anneomoly, 31 March 2015 - 17:51.


#45 rhukkas

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 17:52

Maybe if the drivers you mentioned would win a lower series ( i know beitske was legit in a kart), they would have a bigger deal made of them. The top talent won't want an all female grid, but the talent pool is too small to ever really see females in the upper tiers of motorsport. To increase talent pool, you need to increase the awareness and the potential for money.

 

The series doesnt need to be around forever, it just needs to jumpstart a larger female involvement in motorsport. It probably wont happen, but i really dont see any other way to potentially bring more females into motorsport.

 

The assumption that other series are lower is what does the damage.

 

Michelle Mouton won WRC events, Visser won some decent kart races and briefly led KZ World Cup, and Lotta Hellberg won a round of the Formula Super A European championship (which any one has the slightest clue about motorsport is an incredible achievement).

 

Because women aren't in F1 people think women don't win anywhere at a decent level (f1 isn't really all that). They very much do. Instead of screaming from the rooftops about how good Hellberg was in karts or Mouton in rally, people focus on F1. it's no wonder young girls aren't inspired.

 

Darts is a sport that has segregation despite there being no real physical aspect. That's hardly seen world-class female dart players come through.

 

Maybe at a very very very base level it might be good idea, but beyond that? I kinda think it does good female drivers a disservice by lumping them into a lower competition level.


Edited by rhukkas, 31 March 2015 - 17:53.


#46 loki

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 17:54

 

So I actually think it's an idea worth considering. It's a shame Susie has dismissed it out of hand but it's understandable as she will be used to doing things the hard way. This idea is more aimed at younger female drivers who might like the idea of racing but just see no viable way of getting anywhere currently.

Ending the sexist and dated thinking about what a female driver can and can't do would be a good start.  The reason there aren't more female drivers is to a great extent cultural.  Both the cultures of the particular demographic/national sense and partly due to the racing.  For example in drag racing not only do women compete but can compete on a level that rivals and often bests the men.  And they've been doing it for years.

 

This is probably a diversion to change the focus on not having a Geman GP as much as it might be a trial balloon to gauge the fan interest of women in general in motorsport.  There ust aren't the opportunites for women in motorsport, particularly in F1 that there are in other sports.  Add in cultural differences and a sport controlled by older, white males who see women racing as more or less a novelty and until there is a significant change in the attitudes of not only those that run F1 but also many of the fans F1 will still be saddled with an outdated gender bias stereotype.



#47 Nemo1965

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 18:00

If it is a grid full of the likes of Carmen Jorda then I am all for it  :love:

 

Well... we have to have really, really tight overalls... and transparent cars then... otherwise what's the use of having Carmen in the car?

 

(DISCLAIMER: This is a joke.)


Edited by Nemo1965, 31 March 2015 - 18:01.


#48 Red17

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 18:21

People... Bernie is trolling us. He doesn't like women in racing to begin with. Why would he sponsor a all female tier of F1?

 

There are no gender tiers in motorsport, even in the ones with women specific throphies they still run in the mix, why does F1 need to be different?

 

Anyway, poor atempt at trolling, even the primary candidates aren't buying it, tho I can see Milka Duno asking El Chefe Jr if is there still any petrol money left to sponsor one season.

 

I mean... ok, lets ASSUME this idea is real... who will run the cars? What sort of cars are we talking about? How can candidates apply? What sort of racing background will be required? Where will they race? What distance will they race? What's the payout? Who will bankroll this? Who will write up the rules? Who will air this?

 

Seriously! It's balant trolling ala Bernie and not even funny, let it pass people.



#49 RubalSher

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 18:21

One of the great thing about motorsports is that it's unisex.

 

If motorsports is unisex, how come there are no female drivers in F1 for ages now? And motorsports in general hardly has any female drivers across the board. What is that down to?



#50 brr

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 18:29

If motorsports is unisex, how come there are no female drivers in F1 for ages now? And motorsports in general hardly has any female drivers across the board. What is that down to?

 

I can't say it because its not politically correct, but it rhymes with "alent".