228 replies to this topic

[f1buzz]

The problem is f1 seats are so exclusive that even very talented guys are left out. Like frijns and others.

So why should they put a female in f1, who hasn't won anything in gp2 or fr 3,5? If she want to compete with men and to be taken serieusly than she should be hold to the same criteria as men befor entering f1. That means showing talent to be succesfull in gp2 or fr 3,5. Otherwise they really don't stand a change to be competitive in f1.

As for an all female f1 series. I think it is not that bad of a idea. Because of the limited seats, the Chance that a female on the grid as a Real race driver (not only Pr wise) is so smalle, that you can say that she is already excluded.So why deny her also the chance of competiting with others of the same gender?

Edited by f1buzz, 10 August 2015 - 06:54.

[Lee Nicolle]

Women are regularly winning as jockeys these days. Realistically it is getting harder for men to make weight so they are advantaged in some respects. They have always been equal too men in eventing.

There is no real reason with the experience women would not do very well in F1.

But too be fair not that many are interested in motorsport, or if they are a satisfied at the lower levels. As are most men too. Getting the money, is probably harder too as a sexist thing. Though Danica has done ok. And while good is not good enough.

[DS27]

The notion that a woman out there who was good enough to race competitively in F1 would struggle to get sponsorship is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard.

[Gorma]

It's unfortunate that Bernie is still in a position where his senile ramblings get so much media attetion.

[Denaris]

Will there be grid boys?

[BRG]

So why should they put a female in f1, who hasn't won anything in gp2 or fr 3,5? 

 

Because Max Verstappen?  Apparently if you have testicles, you can get into F1 on the strength of a dozen F3 races.  And a massive serving of hype of course.  And a famous dad.

[FerrariV12]

Because Max Verstappen?  Apparently if you have testicles, you can get into F1 on the strength of a dozen F3 races.  And a massive serving of hype of course.  And a famous dad.

 

To be fair I think a girl with Verstappen's karting and F3 record would be snapped up by an F1 team. And questions would be asked but no more so than they were about Verstappen himself.

[Wally123]

Is anyone else getting bored with this female driver malarkey? Talent doesn't recognise sex, if there was a woman deserving of a F1 seat they would be snapped up.

[superden]

Segregation. That's how to promote equality.

[f1buzz]

Because Max Verstappen? Apparently if you have testicles, you can get into F1 on the strength of a dozen F3 races. And a massive serving of hype of course. And a famous dad.

It not about hype or testicles. It is about wanted to be treated equal and compete with men, than you have to be judge by the same criteria as the men.

What about verdoorne. Is it fair to not get him a seat because that seat is filled with a girl who is doing oké but not that great like him?

[johnmhinds]

Because Max Verstappen?  Apparently if you have testicles, you can get into F1 on the strength of a dozen F3 races.  And a massive serving of hype of course.  And a famous dad.

 

His 4th place in the last race is proof if it was needed that he deserves the seat.

[PlatenGlass]

Motor racing isn't particularly meritocratic anyway, so if a handful of females who had a famous racing dad or who approached Ron Dennis at an early age etc., were given some decent backing, then at least one of them would probably get to the point where they would do OK in an F1 car.

[pdac]

In terms of marketing, car manufacturers see men as their target market for high performance vehicles and will use men to promote that. They will use women to promote the nippy little run-around. I think the lack of women in motorsport has a lot more to do with sponsorship opportunities.

[krobinson]

Segregation. That's how to promote equality.

 

Yeah, because putting women and men in equal classes would end well for women. Let's take tennis. You put Serena against Djokovic and we wouldn't be talking about her getting games, she would be lucky to get more than 2-3 points through the whole match. The same for football. Anyone saw the women's world cup? Good boys under 16 team would beat the best women's team and with ease. That's just how it is, on equal footing, women have zero chance against men in sports.

[greenman]

Ok I skimmed through this thread, I have a few thoughts:

 

 

There actually is a Women Championship in chess, separate from the men. You know why? Because chess is/was primarily a male activity, which could discourage women from playing the game professionally.The same could be said about motorsport, mostly dudes driving. But in chess the best woman players do get to play against men, which also could be used in motorsport. If for example Visser turns out to be a decent driver, she could race in F1 alongside the males, while the rich no-talent drivers like Carmen Jorda could have her fun in woman F1 while still being a "test-driver" for Lotus.

 

Apart from Women Championships, they also have women's titles - i.e. "Woman Grandmaster", "Woman International Master" etc., which are easier to get than the "overall" (not "male" - as female players can get them too) titles. Considering chess is not a particularly physical activity, it begs a question why. Some years ago, Alexandra Kosteniuk (one of top female players) wrote this blog, in which she argues in favor of segregated championships and titles. I can't agree with everything she says, but she raises some good points, which can also be applied to motorsports and female representation there. In particular her bringing up the historical and social reasons as well as lack of for low representation of females in the sport - these are only amplified in racing due to the nature of sports.

 

So, as much as I enjoy the fact that women are competing on the same grounds as men in all of racing, this doesn't really seem as such a bad idea. I can't help but wonder if an idea of an "all-female racing series" would actually improve the chances of getting more girls interested and encouraged to pursue a racing career - I know it's segregation, but it gives them an exposure, and creates role models. Are Susie Wolff or Carmen Jorda really sending out a message of how you're able to succeed in racing even if you're a female? Are there young girls going, "that's who I wanna be when I grow up!" (?)

 

Of course it would have to be done right and I'm not really sure how you would be able to actually attract the best women in motorsport to participate. Instead, maybe using the money to create an all female team that would race across different categories (open wheelers or not) would be better.

 

Then I will repeat what I said on the front page. If it definitely will happen, (reaaaaally?) and the Dominant Girl F1-champion gets a seat in F1 and gets blown away... the women and 'motorsports has swag' will get a bigger blow than ever. The initiative will then ridicule its purpose which is laudable.

 

I don't see how this would be worse than having Jorda or Wolff as "female representatives" in F1. At least it would be an actual attempt to find a woman that can race in F1 on merit. 

 

 

[rhukkas]

Because Max Verstappen?  Apparently if you have testicles, you can get into F1 on the strength of a dozen F3 races.  And a massive serving of hype of course.  And a famous dad.

 

He achieved more in karting than Senna, Hamilton, Rosberg, Alonso the lot. He didn't just beat his 'peers' he best the best professional karters in the world in KZ. See, what you'll notice is that a lot of 'hotshots' actually don't race the best karters because they don't want it to ruin their biography. Hamilton and Rosberg had a bit of a shocker in 2001 in FSA for example.

Also, what he did in F3 in his rookie year was nothing short of incredible.

HIs dad is an ex-F1 driver, but his mum was bloody quick in a kart too. Funnily enough she won the Margutti Trophy when it meant someething. Not that you would know what that is because clearly you know f all about motorsport.

Edited by rhukkas, 10 August 2015 - 20:14.

[043Max]

The 1st Next woman in F1 has a name.

 

Her name is Victoria Verstappen.

 

She's still to young now, but remember this name.

Edited by 043Max, 11 August 2015 - 17:10.

[superden]

Yeah, because putting women and men in equal classes would end well for women. Let's take tennis. You put Serena against Djokovic and we wouldn't be talking about her getting games, she would be lucky to get more than 2-3 points through the whole match. The same for football. Anyone saw the women's world cup? Good boys under 16 team would beat the best women's team and with ease. That's just how it is, on equal footing, women have zero chance against men in sports.

We aren't taking about ball sports, we're talking about motor racing, so your above examples are irrelevant. Modern cars don't even present the same physical challenges of previous eras and if a 17 year old male can drive one, a physically fit woman can too.

Or are you just rolling out that age old cobblers that 'men are better drivers'?

[Cloxxki]

He achieved more in karting than Senna, Hamilton, Rosberg, Alonso the lot. He didn't just beat his 'peers' he best the best professional karters in the world in KZ. See, what you'll notice is that a lot of 'hotshots' actually don't race the best karters because they don't want it to ruin their biography. Hamilton and Rosberg had a bit of a shocker in 2001 in FSA for example.

Also, what he did in F3 in his rookie year was nothing short of incredible.

HIs dad is an ex-F1 driver, but his mum was bloody quick in a kart too. Funnily enough she won the Margutti Trophy when it meant someething. Not that you would know what that is because clearly you know f all about motorsport.

I have tried to find some, ANY, footage of Sophie Kumpen karting. Supposedly she beat numerous later F1 drivers. And not just pay drivers.

Who can help me out? Surely those big races got someone to film it back then? But then in the video title there will be Trulli or Fisichella...
 

Her daughter Victoria (now 14 of 15 y/o?) with Jos Verstappen has the same new top shelf genetic head start as Max. F1 sons typically get photomodels for moms. Max and Voctoria got a top karter for a mom. Victoria only got interested in karting recently but supposedly is doing OK in tests. There have been (even Dutch) F1 drivers who spent their time playing tennis up to 16,  so there is hope indeed. Especially as her genes and training circumstances have been proven beyong any doubt by Max.
Not just because I'm Dutch, but as a fan of women in general, I hope Victoria will remain interested in motorsports, and find within herself motivation to do the utmost. In Max she has a great tutor, and else she can ask dad or mom. Insanely unique.

Women hold their own in 100 mile (and longer) train running. It's not all too rare for them to challenge and even win. But, those events are all about which contenders grace it with their presence. Not quite like world championship where a full representation of the global top is fighting for mere qualification.
Also in long distance swimming there are anecdotal reports of women joining or taking the lead.
When performance is based less on peak strength, women do well. F1 could be such a sport. Women in some case fly jetfighters. Quite a bit harder than modern F1 cars. And, let's not forget that women now also have gym memberships. How strong does one need to be exactly to not lose any time in an F1 race? Devise a test that all F1 drivers (barely) pass, and you'll soon have the cross fits girls posting vids of them passing the test, in good form.
Professional F1 simulators are a great tool to test women's strength. Also as they up their physical training regime.

On female karters not going anywhere after a certain age, Sophie Kumpen is a great example. She got engaged at a young age, and gave her driving career to support her man, and then raise their son, and then their daughter. Her talent is all but lost obviously, through Max, but there is no reason to suspect she could not have held her own in F3 and F3000. 

 

Another top female driver for the would-be list: http://tinyurl.com/o3srqy4

Claudia Hürtgen, in case the link fails. Look at her 24hLM driving after a crippling Monaco crash.

Edited by Cloxxki, 10 August 2015 - 21:25.

[JHSingo]

His 4th place in the last race is proof if it was needed that he deserves the seat.

 

A fourth place on a day a lot of big names had crappy races, you mean?

 

The 1st woman in F1 has a name.

 

Her name is Victoria Verstappen.

 

She's still to young now, but remember this name.

 

I'm 99% sure that members of the Verstappen family are posting on this forum...   

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Segregation. That's how to promote equality.

 

Absolutely, you're just looking at it wrong.  If the Australian/French/US Open/Wimbledon Women's Final can sell out courts and deliver good TV ratings, that's promoting equality.  If Ronda Rousey and the UFC female division draw PPV ratings and attendance, then that's promoting equality.  Equality is more than just competing against men.  If a female racing league became a success in its own right - good attendance and TV figures etc. - then how is that not promoting equality?

 

Let's be honest, if Bernie had any inclination to promote a female racing league, he would've done it long ago.  It's almost as if he's got some other agenda...

 

 

I'm 99% sure that members of the Verstappen family are posting on this forum... 

 

I'm convinced of this too, or at least members of his management team...

[noikeee]

The 1st woman in F1 has a name.

 

Her name is Victoria Verstappen.

 

She's still to young now, but remember this name.

No, her name is Maria Teresa de Filippis. She might be a bit too old now, being 88 and all, but remember this name.

[Rob29]

No, her name is Maria Teresa de Filippis. She might be a bit too old now, being 88 and all, but remember this name.

Yep-I certainly do-have fabulous book by her -first woman to start a WCF1 race.

[043Max]

noikeee

 

I have edited my post of course. how stupid of me.

[Jimisgod]

A fourth place on a day a lot of big names had crappy races, you mean?

 

 

I'm 99% sure that members of the Verstappen family are posting on this forum... 

 

Jos has to do something to keep him away from punching people.

[Physicist2]

I have tried to find some, ANY, footage of Sophie Kumpen karting. Supposedly she beat numerous later F1 drivers. And not just pay drivers.

Who can help me out? Surely those big races got someone to film it back then? But then in the video title there will be Trulli or Fisichella...
 

I believe that claim is based on the fact Sophine Kumpen won something called the 1995 Andrea Margutti Trophy race. Jarno Trulli finished 21st. Giorgio Pantano may have been in that race as well - he was not in the top 10. Indeed, I don't recognize any of the top10 (although karting fans likely would.) I'm not sure that proves much of anything; Certainly her karting career overall was nowhere near as successful as Trulli's.
https://www.driverdb...formula-a/1995/

Edited by Physicist2, 13 August 2015 - 03:07.

[Nonesuch]

Last night's race in Brno saw Swiss driver Chantal Kroll win the overall drivers’ title in the Hankook 2015 24h Series in a Mercedes SLS AMG GT3. She - obviously - also won the Ladies' Cup.

 

To be fair, the 24h Series is not the WEC nor is it a one step away from GP2 (though the driving standards are probably higher) on the path to F1, but it's a nice example of women doing just fine in the 'regular' competition.

[Lights]

The fact that there is something like a 'Ladies' Cup' is just plain wrong in my opinion.

[Timantti]

Nobody would watch this just like nobody watches any other women's sport bar tennis, track and field and maybe swimming.