60 replies to this topic

[PCC]

Apologies for being a deviant where this racing series for women thread is concerned, but In what way do you think the rules are different?

I don't mean the sporting rules, but certain teams (most notably Ferrari) receive quite staggering financial rewards for showing up, which others do not share. I'm no expert on it, but people like Joe Saward and Dieter Rencken have expressed concerns (to put it politely) about this for some time. The financial structure seems to guarantee that the rich remain very, very rich, and the poor become more and more marginal.

[Michael Ferner]

Relax, Rob. I'm 6'7", and 14st+, otherwise I'd have won eight championships and that wet blanket Schue none. The world's unfair, and has always been thus. No grudges held against Gilles, Danica or Jimmy Clark - it's the way of the world.

[LotusElise]

How tall was Jim Clark? He always looks very little, smaller than Jackie Stewart, which most men are not. No-one ever claims that either of these, or the Hermanos Rodriguez, or Jackie Oliver, Jacky Ickx or Stirling Moss, had a weight advantage over their larger peers.

 

Re: Gilles and Patrick - I think Villeneuve's height and weight were published from an autopsy report. He was less than 50kg and about 157cm tall. That is the same size as me, and I am small, even for a woman. Danica is smaller still.

 

If you look at pictures of Depailler from the 1980 season, he had lost a lot of weight since his Tyrrell days, and was a bag of bones, as my Dad would say.

 

If two drivers of widely varying body mass had the same car and the exact same level of ability, however that can be measured, then the smaller one would be at an advantage. However, in real terms, this does not happen, and a bigger driver may well have better reflexes or more track experience, or some other advantage that compensates.

[Collombin]

Clark was given as a very precise (although not necessarily accurate) 5-7 and three quarters in a caption in the Dymock book. Stewart is certainly smaller than that.

I thought Villeneuve was 169cm-ish (sorry for switching to metric mid-post). The well known shot of him walking down a pitlane next to the 168cm-ish Mario would seem to tally with that.

[kayemod]

If two drivers of widely varying body mass had the same car and the exact same level of ability, however that can be measured, then the smaller one would be at an advantage.

 

It's déjà vue time again. No, no, a million times no, a small and light driver would have no advantage in F1, because driver weight is included in the stipulated minimum, so unless a driver is heavy, thus making his total weight higher than the minimum, every car on the grid weighs exactly the same, or to put that another way, NO ADVANTAGE FOR SMALLER DRIVERS. CART was similar to F1 in this respect, but driver weight isn't taken into account in the current Indycar, so a very lightweight driver like Danica Patrick would have an appreciable advantage over the rest of the field. DP currently races in NASCAR which does handicap smaller drivers to a certain extent, her car would have to carry some equalising ballast, but since the cars weigh over 3 tonnes (I think) this is hardly significant.

 

Read and digest what Justin Wilson is quoted as saying about this in post #43.

 

Please.

[TecnoRacing]

Of course there is an advatage - all other things being equal - of being a small and light driver. And it's becoming a major issue again in F1:

 

http://www.telegraph...ht-problem.html

 

Even in cirumstances where a car +heavier driver were comfortably under the weight limit, that same car +lighter driver would always have an advantage due to the ability to optimise the ballast positioning.

Edited by fer312t, 15 April 2015 - 02:27.

[Tomas Karlsson]

It was for Lancia/Autobianchi A112 Abarths. That model was chosen due to its popularity with female car-buyers.

Yes, of course. But without the Saab connection it probably would not have been Lancias. For some reason ladies have been connected with small cars. When the ladies cup started with Minis, the men raced in the Camaro cup.

[kayemod]

Of course there is an advatage - all other things being equal - of being a small and light driver. And it's becoming a major issue again in F1:

 

Even in cirumstances where a car +heavier driver were comfortably under the weight limit, that same car +lighter driver would always have an advantage due to the ability to optimise the ballast positioning.

 

You've been left behind by rule changes on that one. What you posted used to be the case, but with current rules the placement of ballast is restricted. When cars are weighed, including the driver's weight and even his helmet, a certain percentage has to be on the front & rear axles, from memory it's something like 54% rear and 46% front, though there is a small tolerance here. If for the sake of argument Danica Patrick lucked her way into an F1 seat, most of any ballast the rules forced her to carry would be under her bum, it couldn't all be added to one end to counteract under or oversteer. The only advantage her small size would give her would be a reduction in the height of the CG, which would be lower than that of a heavier driver, and would be useful. Yet again, apologies for the thread drift, but I think it's important to explain some of the success that Danica achieved against relatively handicapped drivers in Indycar racing. I'm not involved any more, haven't been for years, but ever more restrictive FIA rules are a nightmare for those who have to abide by them, all in the interests presumably of providing that elusive "level playing field".

[Michael Ferner]

It's déjà vue time again. No, no, a million times no, a small and light driver would have no advantage in F1, because driver weight is included in the stipulated minimum...

Maybe today, but certainly not when I was watching, and when the likes of Clark, Stewart and Villeneuve were active. Please, stop bashing Danica - it's not her fault, and she doesn't deserve it!

Edited by Michael Ferner, 15 April 2015 - 15:19.

[kayemod]

Please, stop bashing Danica - it's not her fault, and she doesn't deserve it!

 

I have absolutely nothing against Danica, whatever advantages she's had, she's clearly a pretty good driver, just trying to place her successes in a sensible  and realistic context.

 

With you at 6' 7" and Danica at 5' 2", you'd make a lovely couple. She'd be kissing your navel, and she'd have to stand on tip-toe for that..

[LotusElise]

Yes, of course. But without the Saab connection it probably would not have been Lancias. For some reason ladies have been connected with small cars. When the ladies cup started with Minis, the men raced in the Camaro cup.

 

There have been a few women in the Camaro Cup over the years, too - Laila Riis-Pedersen springs to mind.