18 replies to this topic

[GPevolved]

So, by trade, I'm a young attorney.  Although I am not a patent attorney, I generally have little difficulty digging up what I need when it comes to patents, with one exception--what I am actually interested in: the history of motorsport!

 

Almost certainly, patents were filed on behalf of great engine designers such as Gioacchino Colombo, Aurelio Lampredi, or Vittorio Jano.  I find it hard to believe that Enzo--however secretive--had no innovations worth securing by patent.

 

Basically, I have done cursory searches from time to time that have yielded little.  Of course, I am aware that there would be little motivation to patent motorsport technology.  But, as to roadcars being developed by companies with racing teams...wouldn't some of their innovations be protected by patent?

 

At the moment, I am just taking shots in the dark with names that might appear in the patent rolls between 1900 and 1950.  Granted, I am not looking for anything in particular.  However, I am surprised by the big pile of nothing I am turning up.

 

Usually, when this happens (in life), I am missing something really obvious.  Can anyone figure out what that is?

 

Thank you in advance for any thoughts you may have.

[john aston]

Not surprised at all ; the wheels of the law of the law can  grind exceedingly slowly , far slower than an innovative and fast moving racing car chassis or engine designing firm . Why waste time and money registering a patent when by the time it is registered it will  be yesterday's news anyway? Market forces are a factor too - if you invent a better mousetrap then patent it by all means but a blown diffuser or a four valve head ? Personally I found that motor sport was an antidote to my day job as a lawyer.

[ReWind]

That reminds me of the Arrows A2 from 1979 with "Patent Pending" written on it.

[Mistron]

I've never had any success finding the patent for a combined brake / accellerator pedal developed by John Houghton of Houghton / Coldwell in the mid '60s.

 

My understanding of it is that essentially, the pad of the brake  pedal was hinged, and flexing the ankle operated the throttle, pushing the lever with your leg operate the brake. This eliminated the time your foot was off the pedals and made heel & toe easier. It also would allow a narrowew pedal box

 

Did it work? well, it was fitted to both the Coldwell Mink and the works Biota. Sid Marler blamed the pedal layout for his crash 1st time out in the Mink, and I think the Biota was crashed when John offered a split entry to a rival in the Hillclimb championship final(1970?)

 

So out of curiosity, I'd love to see the patent (as a patent holder myself) and hope one day to see  an example 'in the metal'

 

Al

[Bloggsworth]

Finding patents can be a funny business, and very much depends on whether the relevant patenting authority has scanned old patents into a computer based archive. I can find my US patent, but not the British original, nor any of the other 10 or 12 countries the patent was filed. It also helps to have some knowledge of the rather arcane, and particular, language used in the patenting process such as "In this embodiment..." In my case "Paint mixing machine" brings up nothing, but "Paint agitating apparatus" does. Agitating, paint? They are not exactly concomitant...

 

You need to pick out peculiarities of phrasing which may exist in what you are looking for; for instance, Peugeot+Desmodromic will cut out all the sales brochures and other dross and take you straight to the original.

[john aston]

Biota ..a name which had drifted off my radar but now I remember the curious little device at Harewood . where I was startline marshalling. Blue ? Weird styling - almost like a 4 wheeled Bond Bug in some respects .  

[Peter Morley]

I've got a Biota that has been progressing very slowly for many years.

These websites should tell you more than you want to know about them and does feature the blue car

www.biotacars.com

www.biota-kitcar.nl

Edited by Peter Morley, 04 April 2015 - 09:23.

[GPevolved]

Thanks all for the tips.  I appreciate it.  I should have disclosed that it's not for any particular research purposes.  Rather, I'd like a photo-grouping of some old automotive patents for my wall in my office.

[Mistron]

Shame mine isn't old. http://www.veps.co.uk/patent.html

 

I've found searches such as Google Patent almost produce too much choice, and unless you know what you are looking for   it's impossible to narrow it down.

 

I did see the patent for Steve Mcqueens race seat in a book recently, but what surprised me was that he actually managed to patent it - it was far from inventive, and closer to something which might be registered as a design 

 

Al

[Michael Ferner]

Usually, when this happens (in life), I am missing something really obvious.  Can anyone figure out what that is?
 
Thank you in advance for any thoughts you may have.

John Aston has already covered the basics, as it's really a waste of time and effort. Even IF you could get the necessary paperwork done in time, how would you go about protecting your patent? The law covers your business interests, i.e. in practice it enables you to charge your competitor for profit in sales. But in motor racing, sales are not the prime motivator. I am not a lawyer, but how on earth would you go about prize money in a patent suit? Can't imagine that would work!

[GPevolved]

John Aston has already covered the basics, as it's really a waste of time and effort. Even IF you could get the necessary paperwork done in time, how would you go about protecting your patent? The law covers your business interests, i.e. in practice it enables you to charge your competitor for profit in sales. But in motor racing, sales are not the prime motivator. I am not a lawyer, but how on earth would you go about prize money in a patent suit? Can't imagine that would work!

[GPevolved]

Perhaps I was unclear in my last post, I merely want to print some technical pictures as an art-grouping for my office wall.

However, to answer your other comment, I would disagree that such litigation is entirely a waste of effort and time.

This is because, (at least in the US), 35 USCA 283 authorizes injunctive relief provided a number of conditions are met. (See also, 65 Causes of Action 2d 375 (2014); Apple Inc. v. Motorola, Inc., 2014 WL 1646435 (Fed. Cir. 2014)).

[john aston]

35 USCA ? We speak of little else where I live ......

[GreenMachine]

When you patent something, you publish something unique.  A racer would not normally publish his competitive advantage, he would try to keep it secret.

[Peter Morley]

Registered Designs might be worth looking into, a Patent has to be something new and unique a Registered Design can protect things like the shape and decoration which are more appropriate to cars.

[Emery0323]

Registered Designs might be worth looking into, a Patent has to be something new and unique a Registered Design can protect things like the shape and decoration which are more appropriate to cars.

 

The USPTO used to publish  a list of design patents, along with normal patents.  You'd typically see auto manufacturers publish drawings showing the distinctive shapes of cars, along with other companies publishing the look of calculators, applicances, etc.etc.,  I can certainly recall seeing passenger cars, concept cars, published in the USPTO bulletin, but in my limited experience, I don't recall seeing a racing car design published.

They were patenting a design (i.e., "if it looks like this, it's our idea") not patents on a  technical concept ("if it works like this, and/or contains these elements, it's our idea").

 

They might still publish it, but the IP business has gone electronic:

http://www.uspto.gov.../search-patents

[Mistron]

Aston Martin recently registered the design of various classic models, presumably to address the unauthorised replica market, as have Mercedes.

 

Protecting the brand's heritage, I suppose

 

Al

[john aston]

When a car maker starts talking about ' protecting the brand' it's time to get worried . If anybody is guilty of plagiarism it is Aston Martin themselves- the 90s DB7 was a pastiche of a DB5 and every one since(which are quite impossible to tell apart ) is a pastiche of the pastiche. A contrast to  Enzo Ferrari's cut 'em up and  throw them away philosophy . And now the cavallino rampante is a brand we are blessed with Ferrari World in Dubai - God help us.

[Peter Morley]

I think I saw one of the BRM F1 cars with something about being a Registered Design written on it.

 

The thing with Registered Designs is they have to applied for at the time and renewed occasionally (with various limits on how long it can last) so the idea that a manufacturer can rediscover their past and retrospectively register their designs is wrong.

 

Years ago a very famous Italian car company sold the rights to models of their cars to a large toy company who then started telling other companies they could no longer make models of old cars.

The more switched on makers asked what gave the rights holder the authority to stop them, at which point you suspect that management started querying why they had paid so much money for a licence that wasn't as wide ranging as they assumed.

One thing model manufacturers do need a licence for is the logo (e.g. badge and sometimes lettering) but on a tiny model where these things are unreadable that isn't a problem - logos and lettering seem to have the best protection of all.

 

Of course if a modern manufacturer were to reintroduce a model (or some continuation series of it) then they might be able to register that design and consequently stop unlicensed people making models of similar looking (e.g. older) examples... 

 

And then there is the issue of whether the Registered Design is recognised in the country of manufacture (of the copy) - as long as it has been made legally then it is hard to stop someone selling it elsewhere...