7 replies to this topic

[mac miller]

In the 60s, everyone was familiar with the names of the Indy race car designers. Frank Kurtis, A.J.Watson and Epperly roadsters.... The Gurney/Len Terry Eagles... Chapman/Terry Lotus..   Brabham/Ron Tauranac...Eric Broadley Lolas... Granatelli/Wallis Turbine...  Halibrand/Norman Timbs Shrike... etc.

 

 One of the really good customer cars of the 60s was the American made Gerhardt monocoque.  The Gerhardts were a long time racing family producing racing products including OFFY engine starters motors and race car trailers. I was a fan of the Gerhardt cars and I liked the way they assembled their chassis with the big headed round rivets. Looked very industrial and, probably, the same rivets they used to assemble their race car trailers.

 

  I have never heard of any established designer connected with the design of these very well made cars.  Do any of the esteemed historians on this forum have any information about who was involved with the design of the Gerhardt chassis???         It wouldn't surprise me if Fred Gerhardt, himself, was the designer. He was a very clever fellow.

 

      mac miller in INDY

Edited by mac miller, 03 April 2015 - 15:02.

[ray b]

lotus copy by way of brahbam  but built stronger

 

http://www.trackforu...hardt-Indy-Cars

 

http://artpollard.tr...67gerhardt.html

 

above link list mr G as the designer

Edited by ray b, 03 April 2015 - 15:23.

[Allen Brown]

Although these don't directly answer the question, I'm going to put them up as they will give some useful pointers as to how the design evolved:

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/64/

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/65/

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/66/

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/67/

 

The last of these has never previously been published because I wasn't sure it was ready, but as I am amongst friends here, I'll risk it. 

[Henri Greuter]

Although these don't directly answer the question, I'm going to put them up as they will give some useful pointers as to how the design evolved:

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/64/

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/65/

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/66/

http://www.oldracing...om/gerhardt/67/

 

The last of these has never previously been published because I wasn't sure it was ready, but as I am amongst friends here, I'll risk it. 

 

 

I know that feeling Allen!  Allow me to share that corner with you.

 

 

In a preview on the 1967 Indy 500, Roger Huntington wrote that Andy Granatelli and his brothers had developed a roots blown version of the Novi V8, to be fitted within a Gerhardt chassis. But such a car never appeared at the Speedway though I think the entry for it was made as ben the STP #59, the given engine specs match the values for the Novi V8.

Difficuly with this entiy is of course that as far as I know and the entire world has seen, (Apart from sponring Lotus another year) Granatelli had all his own eggs in the nest that eventually hatched the Turbine #40. Thus it remains a mystery how serious this plan was.

The reason I dare to bring this story up is that it is written about by Roger Huntington and he was, to my knowledge, a writer with a reputation to loose  Being fooled by the Granatellis too this time?

 

Henri

[Allen Brown]

Henri, I'd be very interested to see that preview.  What was it published in?  Hot Rod?

[mac miller]

I know that feeling Allen!  Allow me to share that corner with you.

 

 

In a preview on the 1967 Indy 500, Roger Huntington wrote that Andy Granatelli and his brothers had developed a roots blown version of the Novi V8, to be fitted within a Gerhardt chassis. But such a car never appeared at the Speedway though I think the entry for it was made as ben the STP #59, the given engine specs match the values for the Novi V8.

Difficuly with this entiy is of course that as far as I know and the entire world has seen, (Apart from sponring Lotus another year) Granatelli had all his own eggs in the nest that eventually hatched the Turbine #40. Thus it remains a mystery how serious this plan was.

The reason I dare to bring this story up is that it is written about by Roger Huntington and he was, to my knowledge, a writer with a reputation to loose  Being fooled by the Granatellis too this time?

 

Henri

 

 

   I think that Andy had talked to Cooper and Brabham as early as '61 or '62 about a rear engine NOVI, but with dim prospects of finding a suitable transaxle and a probability of, at least, a 70% rear weight bias, Cooper and Brabham excused themselves from the  deal.  

  By luck or divine provenance, Andy came upon a layout with much more potential in the Ferguson 4WD chassis.  I believe this was a much smarter direction for the NOVI than any rear engine car would have been. 

 

  mac miller in INDY

[Henri Greuter]

Henri, I'd be very interested to see that preview.  What was it published in?  Hot Rod?

 

 

Allen,

 

I found it.  It is published in Autocar, dated 25 May, 1967, title: "They are not complaining this year...."

I have Xeroc copies of the article and only one of them includes the page number. But it is a four page article and the second page is page number 24 within the magazine. The referring to the Novi going into a Gerhardt can be found on the first page of the article, on the very last page page he mentions that the Novi was fitted with a roots blower instead of a centrifugally blower as the Novi had used since its inception.

 

The Novi fan (Dare I call myself historian????) in me regrets that there are no further details about both these projects: the change of blower as well as being built into a rear engined chassis. And I never had the opportunity anymore to speak people about any of these projects to find out what happened and why (eventually not....).

 

One reason why not however may be given by Huntington himself already. Right after he mentions the plans for the Gerhardt-Novi Huntington writes:

"But-let's face it-the gas turbine car is causing such a stir throughout the whole U.S. racing sport that the Gerhardt-Novi is getting little attention. Andy is a promotor and he's sticking with the iron that draws the attention."

 

I have some suspicions about the but I hardly dare to speak these out.

 

Allen, I hope this is of some help already? If more is needed, them PM me and we''ll see what I can do.

 

Best regards,

 

Henri

[Henri Greuter]

   I think that Andy had talked to Cooper and Brabham as early as '61 or '62 about a rear engine NOVI, but with dim prospects of finding a suitable transaxle and a probability of, at least, a 70% rear weight bias, Cooper and Brabham excused themselves from the  deal.  

  By luck or divine provenance, Andy came upon a layout with much more potential in the Ferguson 4WD chassis.  I believe this was a much smarter direction for the NOVI than any rear engine car would have been. 

 

  mac miller in INDY

 

 

Mac,

 

I do not entirely agree with your view on what was the wisest move to make with the Novi. As long as it remained centrifugally supercharged, then a front engined lay-out was indeed having one single advantage that was impossible to achieve on any rear engined chassis.

But with some changes (that without doubt would have made the engine loose its typical Novi features) then a rear engined option could have been very tantalizing.

But as you rightly state: finding a gearbox that could cope with the power and torque of the Novi, that was a nightmare.

 

If I ever can find the right place and the needed cooperation, I could tell so much more about the last years of the Novi then what George Peters and I did some 20 years ago in Novi Vol2. Some stories and rumours are too wild to be true but all combined make up a story.

But regrettably, with the average age of Indycar fans diminshing rapidly, the interest for the Novi is diminishing just as fast, if not faster, so I fear that I'll never find the right place for it anymore to justify the work I need to do for it and for the editor I need to correct my work language wise.

 

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 04 April 2015 - 09:48.