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#1 racingforeveryone

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 00:48

Good day. I would like to get informed about the amateur racing culture, especially in United Kingdom. As far as i know, if you love racing you should buy a car for 1000£-2000£, modify it and race. I think it is expensive and i search for solutions to enable non-rich people to race on weekends with their friends(paying 30-50 GBP per 1 hour set by hiring a vehicle).As you probably understood, i am going to challenge current racing structure. After some computations i have found out that monthly costs for such business will be more than 200 000 GBP excluding track hire. And it is interesting to note that 90% of costs come from fuel,tire and braking consumption. Than is why, in order to reduce costs, in order to keep the racing spirit and fun on the same level and in order to enable people to pay less amount of money for racing, it is needed to find some technical solutions . For example:

1.using double size go-karts
2. using Jedi
3. using MX5 despite the fact that it is a saloon car and it is costly
4. building an own vehicle with reduced weight,rpm and bhp
5. using an electric drive that will totally reduce fuel costs
6. Using inside and outside roll cages that will reduce damage and thus,costs.

Please provide some more technical and maybe business solutions about my idea. Thank you  very much.

P.S I kindly ask you not to write about possible business drawbacks that i would face(financial,marketing,demand,track hire,etc). Because if there is no product(vehicle), there is no business. Thank you very much.


Edited by racingforeveryone, 05 April 2015 - 00:57.


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#2 Greg Locock

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 02:22

 200000/40=5000 chargeable track hours per month.



#3 gruntguru

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 07:41

http://www.hyperracer.com/



#4 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 12:42

Being an amateur racer, I can tell you that tire costs far outweigh fuel and brake costs.  I don't even think about fuel and brake costs.  I think about tires tho, a lot.  The sticky fast ones are expensive and don't even last one event.  The not sticky slow ones are expensive and last a couple of events.

 

The biggest cost is maintenance and repair.  Stuff breaks.  You need a vehicle that is cheap to maintain and has a plentiful supply of cheap parts.

 

 

CC



#5 scolbourne

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 14:47

Hill climbs are probably the cheapest form of motor sport. You can normally use any car including your daily driver. The short length means tyre wear will be minimal. You will get several runs in a day. and really you are trying to improve on your best time so it is competitive.

If you want to be on track with other cars, track days are a good place to start but as said above tyres will become a major expense.

 

To get around the tyre cost , racing on grass is fun, skilfull , cheap and will have less tyre wear.



#6 kikiturbo2

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 22:12

you have to translate the cost into GBP/km...

 

lets say that in 1 hour of car rental you will spend 30 min waiting in the pits for track time... so you have 30 min of driving time.. In 30 min you can easily do 40 km on the track... but lets say 30 km per 1 hr session.

At 40 GBP per hr hat translates into 1.33 gbp per Km... which is not much to run a car (incl tires, fuel, pads, maintenance and vehicle ammortization + profit for operator)

 

So, I think you are fooling yourself into thinking you can do motorsports at such a limited budget.. rental karts cost more..

 

Cheapest option for usual trackday fun is a cheap hatchback on used performance tires. More fun could be had in a cheap RWD gutted miata/bmw, with a welded diff and running used streed tires on dirt. I think that might be the cheapest of all forms of motorsport.. I think we are looking at banger racing on dirt... that would be it.. and could be fun..



#7 MatsNorway

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 22:19

In Touring car (RC car 1/10 scale) there has been and still is often spec tire races and sometimes classes. EFRA the biggest event organiser in EU often have spec tire. But the IFMAR world finals have been open traditionally i think.



#8 racingforeveryone

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 22:43

you have to translate the cost into GBP/km...

 

lets say that in 1 hour of car rental you will spend 30 min waiting in the pits for track time... so you have 30 min of driving time.. In 30 min you can easily do 40 km on the track... but lets say 30 km per 1 hr session.

At 40 GBP per hr hat translates into 1.33 gbp per Km... which is not much to run a car (incl tires, fuel, pads, maintenance and vehicle ammortization + profit for operator)

 

So, I think you are fooling yourself into thinking you can do motorsports at such a limited budget.. rental karts cost more..

 

Cheapest option for usual trackday fun is a cheap hatchback on used performance tires. More fun could be had in a cheap RWD gutted miata/bmw, with a welded diff and running used streed tires on dirt. I think that might be the cheapest of all forms of motorsport.. I think we are looking at banger racing on dirt... that would be it.. and could be fun..

 

Kiki, braking pads per set costs 60 GBP(just imagine) + tires + fuel + all overheads. That is why using saloon cars is not a solution(I was thinking about Golf MK2 but even such car is horrific for my idea). As you ve mentioned it is foolish idea(i wrote about that at the beginning if i am not mistaken). But what about finding a vehicle that will reduce costs? This is my question. Light vehicle with good aerodynamics, small engige, good gear box and maybe on electric drive. This was my question. What kind of vehicle would be better to use in order to reduce costs?


Edited by racingforeveryone, 05 April 2015 - 22:50.


#9 racingforeveryone

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 22:45

 200000/40=5000 chargeable track hours per month.

 

Yes, Mister. In order to reach it you should have 20 cars per hour and 8 hours a day. Tough challenge. That is why it is needed to think on vehicle choise



#10 racingforeveryone

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 22:48

Being an amateur racer, I can tell you that tire costs far outweigh fuel and brake costs.  I don't even think about fuel and brake costs.  I think about tires tho, a lot.  The sticky fast ones are expensive and don't even last one event.  The not sticky slow ones are expensive and last a couple of events.

 

The biggest cost is maintenance and repair.  Stuff breaks.  You need a vehicle that is cheap to maintain and has a plentiful supply of cheap parts.

 

 

CC

 

Mister, i have an idea of putting inside and outside roll cages that will prevent car damage, so it is not a main problem. Tires will be a problem(if not possible sponsorship with tire producers),fuel and braking will be. But if we could find proper vehicle, we could reduce these costs.


Edited by racingforeveryone, 06 April 2015 - 02:17.


#11 Greg Locock

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 08:26

"race on weekends" - Last time i checked there were 8 weekend days in a month, and you'd be lucky to manage 6 hours per car per day, so that's a fleet of 100  cars, not 20. Not too sure how your maths is working out.



#12 mariner

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 08:36

A quick plug for my UK club

 

www.750MC.co.uk

 

Join it and there are over a dozen classes, all at very low cost - and you get to race for 6 hours with your friends around the Silverstone GP circuit each year.

 

Oh yes and second plug ( I'm shameless) - the membership has contained at least 5 designers of Indy 500 winning cars.


Edited by mariner, 06 April 2015 - 08:37.


#13 Crazy Canuck

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 11:27

There is no cheaper form of motorsport than karting with spec tires and spec/sealed engines.  If you want a proper car then a I suggest a saloon rather than a true race car.  Saloons are much cheaper to maintain.

 

 

CC



#14 Fat Boy

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 16:38

If you must race, I recommend BMX. It's about the best bang/buck I've found. Anything with an engine on it is going to get expensive in a hurry.

 

 

 

(This is written tongue-in-cheek, but only kinda)



#15 racingforeveryone

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 17:00

"race on weekends" - Last time i checked there were 8 weekend days in a month, and you'd be lucky to manage 6 hours per car per day, so that's a fleet of 100  cars, not 20. Not too sure how your maths is working out.

No, Mr Locock. ''Race on weekends'' is kind of advertisement style meaning. Track should be open 7 days/ minimum 8 hours 



#16 racingforeveryone

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 17:03

A quick plug for my UK club

 

www.750MC.co.uk

 

Join it and there are over a dozen classes, all at very low cost - and you get to race for 6 hours with your friends around the Silverstone GP circuit each year.

 

Oh yes and second plug ( I'm shameless) - the membership has contained at least 5 designers of Indy 500 winning cars.

 

Mariner, it is too professional and i think it will require pit crew, motorhomes and your own car. I think that cars should be provided



#17 racingforeveryone

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 17:07

There is no cheaper form of motorsport than karting with spec tires and spec/sealed engines.  If you want a proper car then a I suggest a saloon rather than a true race car.  Saloons are much cheaper to maintain.

 

 

CC

 

Crazy Canuck, Saloon cars can not be cheaper as it is required to change tires, brakes and fueling before each session that will cost you nearly 200-500 GBP. How i can suggest vehicles with 50 GBP  price per set if the cost of it will be 200-500 GBP? That is why saloon car is not a good idea, i think.



#18 kikiturbo2

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 20:32

I tried to point out that your numbers are way off.. regardless of vehicle choice... Even using the cheapest option (low tech karts using spec  engines, and I am not talking about kart engines but those general use sub 10 hp engines that are used in rental karts) your prices are way too low.. and I have a friend that runs kart rentals so I know a bit about maintenance costs..

 

Electric is not an option... fuel costs are lower but you are looking at expensive battery changes down the line..

 

the only thing I can see working at this price level is banger racing on dirt..



#19 racingforeveryone

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 22:36

I tried to point out that your numbers are way off.. regardless of vehicle choice... Even using the cheapest option (low tech karts using spec  engines, and I am not talking about kart engines but those general use sub 10 hp engines that are used in rental karts) your prices are way too low.. and I have a friend that runs kart rentals so I know a bit about maintenance costs..

 

Electric is not an option... fuel costs are lower but you are looking at expensive battery changes down the line..

 

the only thing I can see working at this price level is banger racing on dirt..

 

If there will be light,small engine,low rpm, wide and low vehicle - it might work. Such vehicle will also be condescending to fuel consumption(cause it is light) and condescending to  tire consumption(cause it will not drift), i think.



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#20 gruntguru

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 22:46

That is already available at most Kart centres. Industrial 4 stroke engines and centrifugal clutches. Hard compound slicks, still fun.



#21 Greg Locock

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 23:53

So which of your other assumptions are just blather? Kinda hard to take it seriously (well OK I wasn't) if the information in your FIRST post is misleading.



#22 chunder27

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 17:55

Circuit racing int he UK is prohibitively expensive, and MSA motorsport is really!

 

If yu want to do something cheap try autocross, autograss, short oval racing etc or drag racing.

 

They might not be as fancy, but offer far more value for money and less of the endless payments, clubs etc that yoou get with MSA series.

 

Plus, you can probbaly find a track near you, you dont pay massive entry fees, you will always find someone to race with and the cars are cheap to run usually



#23 gruntguru

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 23:03

The OP doesn't want to go racing. He wants to start a business offering an affordable racetrack driving experience.



#24 kikiturbo2

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 06:37

nascar-racing-double.jpg

 

 ;)



#25 carlt

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 12:53

MOT failed cars in uk go for scrap price

buy them up , hire the circuit , run them till they expire , scrap them , get your vehicle cost back

cost is fuel + circuit hire

now all you need is a circuit prepared to hire out to a bunch of hooligans

oh yeh - and a good lawyer for the inevitable accident claims



#26 kikiturbo2

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Posted 08 April 2015 - 12:58

actually this is what I was thinking about when I wrote "banger cars on dirt"... hell, I'd pay for that...



#27 racingforeveryone

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 21:03

So which of your other assumptions are just blather? Kinda hard to take it seriously (well OK I wasn't) if the information in your FIRST post is misleading.

Everything is correct except this part. Just need in a proper vehicle that will stand between a go-kart and open-wheeler. Something small but still fancy. Small and wide buggy with 0 clearance? To put on it proper engine that will not let you drift and the chassis should be light for fuel and tire consumption. I am not good at mech. engineering but i think it is possible to build such vehicle, running costs that will be less that 50 pounds per hour to enable us to give this cars as a rent for racing for everyone.


Edited by racingforeveryone, 05 May 2015 - 21:46.


#28 Greg Locock

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 23:22

Suggest you try some other career, internet troll doesn't seem to be working too well.



#29 racingforeveryone

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 01:48

Suggest you try some other career, internet troll doesn't seem to be working too well.

 

I am pretty serious actually. It is interesting, where did you see the trick point? Isn't it possible to build a car that will be a bit better than go-kart but will bring a racing enjoyment as a real road cars?


Edited by racingforeveryone, 07 May 2015 - 02:05.


#30 Catalina Park

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 08:36

Isn't it possible to build a car that will be a bit better than go-kart but will bring a racing enjoyment as a real road cars?

Have you ever raced a real road car?

#31 racingforeveryone

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 01:56

Have you ever raced a real road car?

 

Let's imagine that - NO. Just want to read what you want to say.



#32 NeilR

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 02:03

You are asking people to waste their time and you clearly do not understand the concepts here: "Isn't it possible to build a car that will be a bit better than go-kart but will bring a racing enjoyment as a real road cars?" - clearly you have not driven a gokart - they ARE enjoyable. In comparison to a road car they are a rocketship - there is no gap in the market as you propose. There are a lot of people more clever than you already in the business of motorsport looking for exactly such commercial ventures and they cannot make it work. Your costings are out by a factor of three, which makes me think you have no business background.



#33 Kelpiecross

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 05:19


It seems to be on this topic that it is becoming fashionable to be rude to RFE - but I think his heart and ideas are in the right place. That is; to propose a racing formula or class that real, everyday people can actually afford without risking financial disaster or depriving their families of food etc.

Sadly I don't think such a category exists or will ever exist. Even if there was such a form of cheap racing people who really wanted to win would find plenty of ways to make it expensive.

#34 NeilR

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:27

From a commercial exercise point of view I think he is suffering from instaurare asinum

The cost of venue, insurance, wages and then cars design, construction, maintenance etc etc

30-50GBP per hour is fantasy.



#35 carlt

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 13:34

The problem is when you want 'Racing' which involves Asphalt venue the cost is already high

There are already cheap 'racing' events on grass - Autograss 

There are plenty cheap motorsport events that don't carry the expensive 'racing' tag - Various forms of Trials, Autosolo, Autotest, Hillclimb/sprinting, etc ..



#36 racingforeveryone

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 15:51

My responce to the last 4 messages:

 

Kelpiecross, thank you for understanding

 

NeilR, i study Master of Entrepreneurship in the UK in Top 15 university of the world so i know what  business is. My question is about engineering part. I want to understand if it is possible to build a car that will be a bit faster than go-kart but with the same downforce and grip level as in open-wheelers. Target audience is people who want to race with 70-150 mph speed. Not 20-40 mph. So go-karting is not a best solution That is it! For your 2nd message: Costs per month=200 000 pounds. Break-even for months: 15 cars racing 8 hours per day, 30 days in a month= 6600 hours for 15 cars. Take 55 pounds per 1 hour and you reach break-even. And this computations are for Volkswagen Golf MK2 which requires high fuel,braking and tire expenditure. So for a new vehicle, price per hour can be set even less than 55 pounds.

 

carlt, i know about different cheap series but i believe that it is possible to build a car that will be cheap for running and also from the point of view of maintenance and with this car it will be possible to race on asphalt,as you said.

 

There was a message about hyperracer car, i have checked it with my formula student team of my university(we build a racing car and have a race on Silverstone this year,by the way) and my colleagues counted 7 problems of hyperracer this that will be difficult to use though it is cheap and affordable. And i continue to search for solutions.

 

 

 

 


Edited by racingforeveryone, 09 May 2015 - 16:01.


#37 gruntguru

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:59

 

Costs per month=200 000 pounds. Break-even for months: 15 cars racing 8 hours per day, 30 days in a month= 6600 hours for 15 cars. Take 55 pounds per 1 hour and you reach break-even. And this computations are for Volkswagen Golf MK2 which requires high fuel,braking and tire expenditure. So for a new vehicle, price per hour can be set even less than 55 pounds.

Those are very optimistic figures! . . . . (and inaccurate! 15 x 8 x 30 = 3,600 not 6,600.)

Think you can fill 15 seats every day of the week? 90% of customers will want to come on the weekend when they (and all their friends) are not at work. Will they all want to come when its raining? To have 15 cars on the track all week you will need a fleet of 25+ cars. There is maintenance, crash repair, time off the track during the day for tyres, brake-linings, fuel etc.

 

You should go out and talk to some of the many operators who run drive days already.



#38 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 09:05

There is no cheap racing,, the cheap classes have people spending too much money! 

 

Karts can be quite cheap, but for a big person you are always at a disadvantage.

Is there any real cheap dirt racing left??  Some classes cost far less but see my first line. Plus associatons wanting/ needing you to buy new equipment,, helmets, suits, bloody HANS devices and the like every year or two. And where you used to get tow money now you pay,, often way too much and your crew has to pay too.

IF you do not wish to win  a trophy every event doing a Supersprint or hillclimb is the cheapest. Though to do any motorsport 'properly' cost a fair amount. Running your road car is fraught with danger, for a casual try maybe but to be remotely serious you need a specialised car,, you may still drive it on the road occasionally but by the time you put decent brake pads, sticky tyres, harness, decent seat it is not very nice, practical or often legal for the street. And really then you have to tow your prepared car to the venue.  

 

IF as I have done sporadically over the decades run a road car in road trim at a hillclimb you still must remember it may break and then you have to get it home. Luckily I have never been caught but many have. I always had at least a ride home teed up before I even leave. And then have to go back and pick up the dead car. And I have seen several expensive cars trashed at hillclimbs and insurance does not cover the repairs.

Though doing those events with a lap sash belt, road seat etc is still scarey.



#39 racingforeveryone

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 14:32

Those are very optimistic figures! . . . . (and inaccurate! 15 x 8 x 30 = 3,600 not 6,600.)

Think you can fill 15 seats every day of the week? 90% of customers will want to come on the weekend when they (and all their friends) are not at work. Will they all want to come when its raining? To have 15 cars on the track all week you will need a fleet of 25+ cars. There is maintenance, crash repair, time off the track during the day for tyres, brake-linings, fuel etc.

 

You should go out and talk to some of the many operators who run drive days already.

 

I consider all factors you have mentioned above. I know about it. And it s a mechanical mistake with 3600. Result is the same = 55 pounds

 

Also, please read my pilot message again. I will copy and paste for you :

 

''P.S I kindly ask you not to write about possible business drawbacks that i would face(financial,marketing,demand,track hire,etc). Because if there is no product(vehicle), there is no business. Thank you very much.''

 

In this thread i ask people to help me with vehicle, not with business. It is a technical part of forum. 



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#40 MatsNorway

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 17:15

Cheap and fast? Buy junkyard cars and fit a rollcage to them. Then ziptie the lexan frontshield in place once the original breaks.

 

And instead of track day races you organise it as hill climbs. One car at a time, less crashes that way, and less stress for the drivers.

 

Then you run cheap China tires on them. Less speed less violent crashes and still fun for everyone.


Edited by MatsNorway, 10 May 2015 - 17:20.


#41 carlt

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 18:37

There is no cheap vehicle 

if there was it would be available to buy now 



#42 kikiturbo2

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 19:13

I have recently experienced a Formula Predator.. an italian made, super simple openwheeler with bike engine inside... Fast and super fun..

http://www.predators...cts/Pc010K.html

 

Local rent is about 150 EUR per 15 min session, so not your numbers, not even near.. As a engineering platform, it is as simple and cheap as possible while not being a kart..



#43 racingforeveryone

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 21:15

There is no cheap vehicle 

if there was it would be available to buy now 

 

I am thinking about building now, not buying. Something as simple as possible.



#44 racingforeveryone

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 21:17

I have recently experienced a Formula Predator.. an italian made, super simple openwheeler with bike engine inside... Fast and super fun..

http://www.predators...cts/Pc010K.html

 

Local rent is about 150 EUR per 15 min session, so not your numbers, not even near.. As a engineering platform, it is as simple and cheap as possible while not being a kart..

 

Wow, it is a major league. 600 euro per hour  is 12 times higher than my objective. Meaning that if i am going to build a car,  it will be needed to sacrifice in speed, in design, in components, etc. I dont know...


Edited by racingforeveryone, 10 May 2015 - 21:18.


#45 Greg Locock

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 22:44

So, somebody has done more or less what you are proposing, and it costs 12 times as much as you're aiming at.

 

What did your business degree from a top 15 (yawn) university say to do in those circumstances? Nickel and dime their approach?



#46 kikiturbo2

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 23:41

My responce to the last 4 messages:

 

Kelpiecross, thank you for understanding

 

NeilR, i study Master of Entrepreneurship in the UK in Top 15 university of the world so i know what  business is. My question is about engineering part. I want to understand if it is possible to build a car that will be a bit faster than go-kart but with the same downforce and grip level as in open-wheelers. Target audience is people who want to race with 70-150 mph speed. Not 20-40 mph. So go-karting is not a best solution That is it! For your 2nd message: Costs per month=200 000 pounds. Break-even for months: 15 cars racing 8 hours per day, 30 days in a month= 6600 hours for 15 cars. Take 55 pounds per 1 hour and you reach break-even. And this computations are for Volkswagen Golf MK2 which requires high fuel,braking and tire expenditure. So for a new vehicle, price per hour can be set even less than 55 pounds.

 

I think you need to revisit your math teacher, but I will bite again and just throw numbers...

 

if your target vehicle should race at 70-150 mph, on a racetrack, we are talking about a vehicle that will be in the 300-400 kg wet weight and 100-140 hp.

Lets presume that your AVERAGE speed is 70 mph, for the sake of argument.. no, lets say 100 km/h.

In a race situation, that car will use, 15 l/100 km... @1.2 GBP per litre... for one hour of "racing" that is 18 GBP just in fuel.

Tires... if you want grip, you will need some track friendly tires.. for our imaginary car 13" will do, and you will be buying in bulk so lets say 30 GBP per tire? 120 GBP per car, and those will last.. ohh, 4 hours of racing.. so 30 GBP per hour.

BRakes.. our imaginary car is super light so ordinary Fiat pads will do.. 32 GBP per car, should last 8 hours, so 4 GBP per hour...

Car... well, we find an incredibly talented designer and his company builds us a super cheap 300 kg, 100 hp car.. let's say he charges us 10000 GBP for the car... NOw, I assure you, that after 50000 Km of RACING that car will be ready to be thrown in the bin. So, the original investment of 10000 GBP will have to be amortized over 50000 km of racing.. .which is 500 hr.... coming down to 20 GBP per hour..

 

SO, this back of the napkin approach got us to 72 GBP per hour, excluding track fees, support, tax and profit... So the answer to your question is NO.



#47 NeilR

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 04:29

NeilR, i study Master of Entrepreneurship in the UK in Top 15 university of the world so i know what  business is. My question is about engineering part. I want to understand if it is possible to build a car that will be a bit faster than go-kart but with the same downforce and grip level as in open-wheelers. Target audience is people who want to race with 70-150 mph speed. Not 20-40 mph. So go-karting is not a best solution That is it! For your 2nd message: Costs per month=200 000 pounds. Break-even for months: 15 cars racing 8 hours per day, 30 days in a month= 6600 hours for 15 cars. Take 55 pounds per 1 hour and you reach break-even. And this computations are for Volkswagen Golf MK2 which requires high fuel,braking and tire expenditure. So for a new vehicle, price per hour can be set even less than 55 pounds.

 

I find many aspects of this difficult to believe and clearly you have failed the most basic of entrepreneurial rules - be informed at least a little before asking questions. The VAST majority of your customers will not be capable of driving a 150mph car. Most will not be capable of over 100mph in anything but a straight line, however you are also apparently ignorant of Karts too - look up superkarts and see how fast they are. You also could not hope to run a car for 8 hours per day.

Simply put your knowledge and numbers do not stack up and you are wasting your own and others time.



#48 desmo

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 13:37

The language has the oddly formal illiteracy of a Nigerian scam email as well.

#49 Fat Boy

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:58

In all fairness, I think the promo material that he's come up with is top knotch.

 



#50 Fat Boy

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 19:03

I think you need to revisit your math teacher, but I will bite again and just throw numbers...

 

if your target vehicle should race at 70-150 mph, on a racetrack, we are talking about a vehicle that will be in the 300-400 kg wet weight and 100-140 hp.

 

 

Not really. You're looking at a Formula 3 or Formula Mazda at that point. More like 500-600 kg and 240-250 HP.

 

Completely doable for an untrained novice at 50 pounds an hour. All you Negative Nellies need to calm down.