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F1 race ending behind Safety-Car


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 07:50

I think we had that in a race in Monaco, too, but any other F1 races behind the safety-car?

 

And what do you think: Is it better to have a race break as IndyCar did last year two times and starting the race again for two laps?



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#2 tmekt

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 07:52

Brazil 2012. Did the Japanese GP last year end behind a safety car as well (before it was red-flagged)?

Edited by tmekt, 12 April 2015 - 07:54.


#3 KavB

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 07:53

Happened in Australia and Malaysia 2009. It seems to be a more common occurrence these days!

 

Edit: My bad. Malaysia ended with a red flag. I just remember Button not being able to race to the chequered flag on both events so I got it mixed up.


Edited by KavB, 12 April 2015 - 08:36.


#4 Dauemannen

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 07:53

Australia 2009, for one. You know, that whole controversy about Hamilton lying to the stewards about passing under safety car.



#5 Victor_RO

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 07:57

Canada 1999 was the first one I believe.



#6 hamilton10000

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 07:59

Crofty said its happened 5 times but didn't mention which ones

 

Edit - 5 before today, 6 now


Edited by hamilton10000, 12 April 2015 - 08:00.


#7 August

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:05

And what do you think: Is it better to have a race break as IndyCar did last year two times and starting the race again for two laps?

 

Depends on the situation. Excessively long SC periods should be red flagged, it's just wasting laps for nothing. And during the last 5 or maybe 10 laps, an automatic red flag and a rolling restart to avoid wasting the final laps.



#8 hamilton10000

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:20

And what do you think: Is it better to have a race break as IndyCar did last year two times and starting the race again for two laps?

Or they could go touring car style and add laps on to the end. But they may then have to put more fuel in the cars in case this happens



#9 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:24

didn't canada 2014 end under a safety car?

 

actually, did this race even technically end under the safety car if the safety car peeled off before the finish line.


Edited by SanDiegoGo, 12 April 2015 - 08:27.


#10 superden

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:31

Rights and wrongs aside, ending a race under a SC kills my interest in a GP stone dead. It's just a complete anti-climax, particularly when it's coupled with Chuckle Brother style marshalling.

Edited by superden, 12 April 2015 - 08:32.


#11 hamilton10000

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:34

BBC - 

 

Today's result marks the sixth time an F1 race has finished under a safety car.

The first occasion was at the 1999 Canadian Grand Prix (below).

A lengthy gap followed before the second at Australia 2009, since when we've seen them at Italy 2009, Monaco 2010, Brazil 2012 and Canada 2014.



#12 wingwalker

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:35

Today I thought for a second they will manage it with yellows all along the straight but I guess there was a possibility someone would be outsighted, change line and smash into Max's car.



#13 sportyskells

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:22

or just red flag it and call a result when its THAT close to the end of the race



#14 artista

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:43

I, personally, prefer the SC to the Red flag. With the SC, cars cross the finish line. Once the race finish is already ruined -I'm not saying Race Control ruined it, it was just the circumstances-, I prefer the people there on the stands watching the cars driving through the straight and the finish line, even if it's just a parade.

#15 Goron3

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 09:46

Why didn't they used the Virtual Safety car? The only battle we had upfront was between Kimi and Seb and just as Kimi gets the gap to about a second, they bring out the Safety Car.

 

Stupid decision.



#16 chrcol

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 15:32

what is funny is that the car was in a safer position than the problem at germany last year and this year we had a SC, but in germany we didnt.

 

I knew this would come up again, so to all those who said no SC in germany what do you think about this time?



#17 TheManAlive

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 16:07

I agree about the virtual safety car - wasnt this the perfect chance to try it out?



#18 artista

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 16:15

I agree about the virtual safety car - wasnt this the perfect chance to try it out?


I don't really know what the risks were, but maybe they thought that, given where the car was, there might have been necessary to drive through the pit-lane or, even, totally stop the cars somewhere else if the car started burning. These things are easier to do with the real safety car.

#19 Rakaman

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 16:18

The car was definitely in a dangerous position, but with Maldonado out of the race there wasn't really much of a chance of anyone crashing into it on the straight. Still better safe than sorry. 



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#20 HoldenRT

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 16:48

The car was definitely in a dangerous position, but with Maldonado out of the race there wasn't really much of a chance of anyone crashing into it on the straight. Still better safe than sorry. 

 

Ha..



#21 Fastcake

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 17:02

or just red flag it and call a result when its THAT close to the end of the race


If you red flag it, the result is taken from the order two laps previously.

In the event, had the marshals got the Toro Rosso crew to help out earlier, they would have cleared the track and given us one last racing lap.

#22 beute

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 17:19

what are yellow flags for?

The car was on the main straight, easily visible for everybody.

Double yellow would have been sufficient.



#23 Gyno

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 17:41

Why cant they just do like WEC does and have Yellow Zones?

So much easier and fully possible with todays Technology.

But then again this is F1, where senile old farts run the show.



#24 August

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 17:43

Why cant they just do like WEC does and have Yellow Zones?

So much easier and fully possible with todays Technology.

But then again this is F1, where senile old farts run the show.

 

Aren't those yellow zones in WEC only at Le Mans. Otherwise a full-course yellow which is basically the same as the virtual SC.



#25 sportyskells

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 18:48

i think a certain former F1/indycar racer has asked to find a way to stop races finishing under safety car/yellow 



#26 artista

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 19:20

But how? (serious question). The green-white-checkered system of NASCAR, for example, is only possible with refuelling.

Edit: oops! I had a brain fade and said the colours in the wrong order.

#27 BullHead

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 19:24

I don't see that there's a problem. It happens once in a while, pretty rare, part of the racing dice, like shortened / stopped races. No big deal.



#28 OO7

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 19:32

When is the last time there was a safety car in the first three races of the year and three consecutive races?



#29 Myrvold

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 01:04

Why cant they just do like WEC does and have Yellow Zones?

So much easier and fully possible with todays Technology.

But then again this is F1, where senile old farts run the show.

 

Yes, Virtual Safety Car...

F1 have it, they just don't use it.



#30 HeadFirst

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 02:16

Today's race ending under the SC was a disppointment, but understandable. At least the right guy won.



#31 Exb

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 10:26

BBC -
Today's result marks the sixth time an F1 race has finished under a safety car.
The first occasion was at the 1999 Canadian Grand Prix (below).
A lengthy gap followed before the second at Australia 2009, since when we've seen them at Italy 2009, Monaco 2010, Brazil 2012 and Canada 2014.


Well that doesn't add up BBC - that would make China 2015 the 7th.



#32 Brother Fox

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 10:32

Rights and wrongs aside, ending a race under a SC kills my interest in a GP stone dead. It's just a complete anti-climax, particularly when it's coupled with Chuckle Brother style marshalling.


If they'd played some Benny Hill music while that was going on its be good though

#33 Briz

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 10:59

The car was definitely in a dangerous position, but with Maldonado out of the race there wasn't really much of a chance of anyone crashing into it on the straight. Still better safe than sorry. 

 

In the not too distant future F1 could implement a "Virtual Maldonado" if a race gets too boring



#34 Alan Baker

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 11:02

If they'd played some Benny Hill music while that was going on its be good though

No, it should have been Bernard Cribbins' Right Said Fred. At least they didn't stop for a cup of tea.



#35 djned

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 12:20

Is it better to have a race break as IndyCar did last year two times and starting the race again for two laps?

 

definitely.  it would be great if f1 could find a workaround to add some excitement instead of this farcical situation where the safety car pulls in but cars aren't free to race.  of course all the teams would moan about fuel levels and so on but there has to be a simple solution here.

 

schumacher being stripped of that position in monaco was a joke.  f1 should not punish drivers for racing - and then regulate against it!



#36 TimRTC

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 12:49

Virtual safety car would make no difference, the race would still have ended with them running slowly and in fixed positions as there was little to no time left after the car was cleared to restart it.

#37 TimRTC

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 12:51

definitely. it would be great if f1 could find a workaround to add some excitement instead of this farcical situation where the safety car pulls in but cars aren't free to race. of course all the teams would moan about fuel levels and so on but there has to be a simple solution here.

schumacher being stripped of that position in monaco was a joke. f1 should not punish drivers for racing - and then regulate against it!


You cannot pass until they cross the start finish line, it would be stupid if they allowed this on last lap restarts as it would lead to NASCAR style carnage on the final corner. Completely changing a race result.

#38 Dan333SP

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 13:21

Lucky me, I've attended 2 of the 6 GPs that have finished under SC. :(



#39 redreni

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 14:51

or just red flag it and call a result when its THAT close to the end of the race

 

In the past, the reason this wasn't done was because it could lead to odd results on countback. I.e. any position changes that happened just before the SC came out wouldn't be reflected in the result, because they had to go back quite a long way, often the best part of two laps, to take the classification from the end of the last lap that had been completed by everybody on the lead lap before the red flag.

 

Now, they will go back to the last point at which the positions of the cars can be established, no matter which timing beam it is (they have something like 18 or them all around the track) so it's not such a problem.

 

Personally I don't see what would have been wrong with leaving the car where it was and covering it under local yellows for two laps, then moving it after the race had ended. If it had caught on fire, fine, stop the race or bring out the SC to protect the marshals that would have needed to enter the track to put it out, but as that didn.t happen, I don't see why the race couldn't have continued. Waiting until after the race to recover the car might have spared the marshals' blushes a bit in any case - they made pushing a car through an access gap look like a particularly difficult level on tetris!



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#40 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 17:50

You cannot pass until they cross the start finish line, it would be stupid if they allowed this on last lap restarts as it would lead to NASCAR style carnage on the final corner. Completely changing a race result.

 

Did they change it back? Last time I checked you cannot pass until you cross the SC line, which is usually near the pit entry/last corner.



#41 Rob

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 17:53

If you're going to make the call to finish a race under the safety car, at least have the guts to keep it out for the finish. It looks like you're trying to pretend it wasn't really there...



#42 BullHead

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 18:23

Yeah, it's the only silly thing about it for me... Just let it cross the line. If the drivers want to pull back a bit for the photo finish win, then let them.

#43 Nathan

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 23:44

F1 races have a set number of laps.  When they are completed the race is done.  No need for a green flag finish.



#44 josepatches

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 00:06

In the last race to end behind the safety car wasnt at bad decision because the race was nearly over and it wouldnt be fair to start a new race destroying what they built all the race

I would like a solution like the speed limit in the pits so instead of safety car the drivers can drive at the same slow speed keeping the gaps between them.

#45 alfa1

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 05:24

schumacher being stripped of that position in monaco was a joke.

 

The big joke was (as usual) the farcial writing of the rules by the FIA.

 

For those who didnt see it,

- the drivers and teams were informed the safety car would be coming in

- the lights went out on the safety car

- the safety car came in

- green flags were displayed on the start/finish straight

- no safety car boards were displayed on the start/finish straight

...or in other words, ALL the events that take place when a safety car normally comes in after being out and the track goes green racing again.

 

Michael overtook Fernando, but was penalized when the FIA produced a rule that said "whilst the safety car is deployed..."

Everyone else said "wtf? the safety car was not deployed!!!"

to which the FIA said "we're right, you're wrong, penalty stands, you can't even appeal it."


Edited by alfa1, 15 April 2015 - 05:25.


#46 ElJefe

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 05:28

Well, the alternative would be even worse: a NASCAR style green-white-checkered finish...