48 replies to this topic

[kimster89]

In the other thread we started talking about the WDC chances of Alonso and Kimi and i was wondering if maybe we can discuss if someone of the older bunch of guys has the realistic chance to come into position to fight for WDC, when we know some people are in their prime right now (VET, HAM) and some very talented young drivers are coming there  aswell (RIC, VES), while we know the time is running out for the likes of Kimi, Button and Massa.

 

What do you think?

[ninetyzero]

None of them,  not in the near future anyway. Alonso and Button and in a car that is poor (at the moment anyway), Massa hasn't won a race since 2008 and the Williams isn't a title challenging package (though I'd love it if that changed) and Kimi is, well, Kimi.

[EthanM]

Out of Kimi, Alonso, Massa, Button?

 

Sorry to say but IMO none. If Ferrari win a WDC it will be Vettel. McLaren is IMO 2-3 years away from even being in the WDC hunt, I doubt if Button will be around that long. Alonso might get a shot, but by the same token I am not convinced no matter what fanbois preach, that Alonso will stick around for 2-3 years in midfield McLarens. Massa is done, yes Bottas is not shaming him, far from it, but I don't see Williams consistently beating Mercedes.

[KavB]

I think none of them will win another title. But out of the three I would say Kimi has the best chance. 

[OvDrone]

Even if I am a Kimi fan through and through I can't see him winning another title. More wins yes, title no.

 

Alonso and Button are in Honda purgatory right now, so no.

 

And Massa? Sadly nope. I would love to see a repeat of 2008 but it won't happen.

 

It's time for the Hamilton / Vettel / Rosberg generation.

[kraduk]

Alonso, but only if macca sort their car out and thats a massive IF, but the potential is there.

[Abranet]

Alonso has the potential out of the list but I don't see McLaren/Honda providing him with the car soon enough. Kimi has a chance if Ferrari continue their current form and get on par with Mercedes but I don't see Kimi beating Vettel or Hamilton over a season in comparable machinery.

 

So I voted none of them. 

Edited by Abranet, 16 April 2015 - 15:03.

[GoldenColt]

None of them is ever going to win a(nother) championship.

[Szoelloe]

the obvious answer is none of them.

[JAW97]

Alonso and Button are most likely imo, depending on how the McHonda package progresses. Can't see it personally, but it'd be foolish to completely write either off, with Alonso being the favourite of the 2. I think Massa is very underrated when he is confident as he is now, but can't see him in another championship contending car. Raikkonen I don't think will be a match for Vettel. He strikes me as someone not too committed which is why I suspect he's had an early peak/drop-off. Reckon he'll probably retire at season's end.

In short, I don't think any will.

Edited by JAW97, 16 April 2015 - 15:31.

[noikeee]

I think all of them are staying put for 2017 (with maybe the exception of Button making way for Vandoorne), but it's gonna be hard for any of them to get a title when Hamilton and Vettel are in the perfect position for attacking this season and the next few ones.

[DutchQuicksilver]

None of them. Alonso, Button and Raikkonen will retire before their team/car will have the best pace again. Massa is will not get in a top car again and is nearing retirement as well.

[MikeV1987]

Raikkonen, he might stick around for another year at Ferrari, who knows how strong the car will be next season.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

Alonso. Although the McLaren/Honda package appears to be a pile of manure at this time, it will definitely mature and improve. Honda got back into the game not because they want to participate, but have every intention of winning. Alonso is their chosen one, and eventually they will get it right and start winning.

 

Many fans and the media are extremely impatient, they expect immediate results. But that's not how it really works, it takes years and a huge financial commitment to get to the top. So far the McLaren/Honda have only three races behind them, One must take a longer viewpoint.

[sopa]

I don't give a good shot to any of them. However, were any of them really to win a title one day, the most likely possibility is still Alonso. Mind you, this may not happen in McLaren at all. He may switch teams in a couple of years time again, and somehow finally end up in the right car for once.

 

The problem with Raikkonen, Massa, Button is that they have trouble beating their team-mates, not to mention other top drivers. Which means they'll have trouble winning even if they have a top car. Certainly at this stage of their careers, even though all three participated in title fights during the period of 2007-2009.

[hamilton10000]

I think most likely it will be none of them but if anyone it will be Alonso, all depends how quickly that Mclaren gets good and if they can avoid throwing away a championship in a way on Mclaren could. Button is a great driver but would end up being overshadowed by Alonso if they had a championship winning car. For Raikkonen I think Vettel will be just too good for him and Massa won't ever have a championship winning car. 

[apoka]

Close call between none and Alonso. Kimi, Massa, Button will have some trouble beating their team mates. In addition, Button and Massa may not get a competitive car soon enough. Alonso isn't that old and performs well, so might still win one at McLaren or elsewhere.

Edited by apoka, 16 April 2015 - 20:57.

[jonpollak]

LOL @ the way posters find ways to come up with vague topics to big up Kimi...

 

Jp

[KingTiger]

Alonso is the only one that has any kind of a shot, if Mclaren can make a decent car for once, but that isn't looking likely. 

[weareracing]

To win a World Championship requires talent AND the luck of being in the right car at the right time.

Although some of the "veterans" can display the talent, none are currently in the right car at the right time.

[teejay]

Right now Kimi would be the best bet simply due to the car being close enough to the Mercs.

 

Button has one too many anyhow.

 

Alonso probably deserves a third already.

 

Massa... nah

[emmanuelrubi]

Mercedes Engine was flawless out of the oven, Honda is rubbish out of the oven no matter how it develops it will never beat the Merc and by the time it gets to Ferrari engine Level Alonso and Button will be long retired.

[Kelateboy]

None.

 

It will be mostly Hamilton and Vettel racking up the titles in the 1.6L V6 era.

[George Costanza]

Fernando Alonso. He's got plenty of time to do it, I would think.

 

If Nigel Mansell can win at 39-40, surely Fernando can do it in the right car.

[Jimisgod]

Raikkonen is a #2, so no. Unless the McHondas take huge leap in 2016 then it's unlikely.

[kosmos]

None or Alonso, if Alonso has the chance the next year, probably Button will have too but is hard to believe with Fernando as teammate, no chance at all for Kimi and Massa.

[Paincake]

Yes the Ferrari performs, but still no chance for Kimi tbh tbh, he was demolished by Alonso and I don't see him beating a young Vettel as teammate after that humiliation. Alonso and Honda have potential, but it stays at mere potential for now.

[MNader]

All/most of them.

 

If Raikonen gets his act together he may have a shot this year or the next.

 

Alonso and Button if the McL/Honda is developed correctly may have a shot next year (unless they somewhat dominate after Spain).

 

Massa,,,, No

[learningtobelost]

Short term (2015-2016) - Kimi has the best chance, no other driver on that list has a car capable of wins.
Longer term (2017 and beyond) - Alonso, maybe. Though I fear it will be too late for him by the time the car comes good.

Realistically - None of them, sadly. 

I feel like we are heading into an era of Sebastian vs Lewis... it was always going to happen folks, just took a little longer than we expected for it to be a 2 horse race.

[mzvztag]

I am not sure that any has.
Ferrari got better but they are at the level of 2012 or so. Can they make another step? Perhaps, the trend speaks for them.
McLaren needs to improve a lot.
Williams will hardly match the works teams.

[quaint]

LOL @ the way posters find ways to come up with vague topics to big up Kimi...

 

Jp

Now that's an interesting take on the posts that appeared before yours.

[f1RacingForever]

Alonso as there's still a chance he could switch to Merc. Slim one but it could happen.

[Donkey]

Alonso made the wrong career move...again.

 

Kimi is slower than Vettel in the same car. He doesn't care as long as he gets paid.

 

Massa has an ok car, but realistically Williams are not going to be winning the championship with their budget and none of the top teams are going to come calling for Massa when there are plenty of quick young drivers around.

 

Button is Coulthard/Webber 3.0.

[BARHonda006]

Alonso made the wrong career move...again.

Kimi is slower than Vettel in the same car. He doesn't care as long as he gets paid.

Massa has an ok car, but realistically Williams are not going to be winning the championship with their budget and none of the top teams are going to come calling for Massa when there are plenty of quick young drivers around.

Button is Coulthard/Webber 3.0.

How is Button Coutlthard/Webber 3.0?

[SilverArrow31]

I think Hamilton and Vettel are going to dominate formula 1 for the foreseeable future. So probably none of them. Alonso should have three, needs three really, but I don't think he will get it.

[Scuferrari]

Alonso has a good shot. He is 33 and he won't lose more than 1 tenth until age 37/38. If you are a great driver you will remain a great driver. Michael was still stellar in 2006 and he would have won the titel in 07 and 08 , 100% (age 38/39). Age is a factor, but a small one.

Don't you think McLaren can provide a championship winning car within 5 years?

[f1RacingForever]

Alonso has a good shot. He is 33 and he won't lose more than 1 tenth until age 37/38. If you are a great driver you will remain a great driver. Michael was still stellar in 2006 and he would have won the titel in 07 and 08 , 100% (age 38/39). Age is a factor, but a small one.
Don't you think McLaren can provide a championship winning car within 5 years?

Maybe but will Alonso stick around for that long? I say no. If Mclaren don't show real progress next year, then the count down will begin.

[Scuferrari]

Maybe but will Alonso stick around for that long? I say no. If Mclaren don't show real progress next year, then the count down will begin.

 

Why do you think he will leave early? I think he has shown a lot of patience in Ferrari. It was an important experience. He isn't the guy he was in 2007 anymore.

If McLaren produce a midfield car the next 3 years, okay. But I think they'll at least build a podium contending car in 2016/2017.

 

He seems happy in driving a F1 car. And there are no other options besides McLaren. I think he will trust in his employer.

 

I'd say his chances are decent, not great but decent.

Edited by Scuferrari, 17 April 2015 - 08:31.

[Gorma]

Maybe but will Alonso stick around for that long? I say no. If Mclaren don't show real progress next year, then the count down will begin.

And at some point Alonso will have to team up with younger driver in his prime. 

[Gorma]

Why do you think he will leave early? I think he has shown a lot of patience in Ferrari.

Patience? He was second in the championship three times and he left after the worst year with the team even though he had a contract for another two years.

[lustigson]

Depends on the timeframe, really. If Alonso has a few years with McLaren and the Honda package gets up to speed with Mercedes and Ferrari, he should have a shot.

 

In the mean time, Räikkönen could luck into another title if Ferrari really get their act together and start beating the Mercedes', and if Vettel drops the ball somewhat.

 

I would say Button is very far-fetched, and Massa — sadly — was history after his 2009 accident and 2010 snub in Germany. In all honesty: I'd rather see Magnussen or Vandoorne in the McLaren alongside Alonso, and Hülkenberg or even Perez in the Williams.

[aramos]

Alonso.

 

Kimi isn't quick enough anymore and Button will have to go against Fernando should the car come good.

[Scuferrari]

Patience? He was second in the championship three times and he left after the worst year with the team even though he had a contract for another two years.

 

If you hear year after year " next year we'll be prepared" , it's normal that after 4 years (2013) you start to doubt if the team has the staff to produce a championship winning car. He then said to himself " okay, 2014 - new start, new chance" and they built the worst car in 20 years.

 

Do you think other drivers would not have lost confidence ? You say it as if leaving a team after 5 years where things actually got worse (mid 2013) with little or no sign of light at the end of the tunnel...as if it's unloyal or something like that. Something negative about a driver.

Do you think Vettel was unloyal to his team after their first bad year in 2014? Do you think Senna was ungrateful to McLaren with his move to Williams after 2 relatively uncompetitve years (92-93) ?

 

The answer should be. No, it's perfectly normal, no big deal. And it doesn't say something negative about the driver. Vettel needed a new challenge just as Alonso or Senna in '93.

[Fatgadget]

Fernando Alonso. He's got plenty of time to do it, I would think.

 

If Nigel Mansell can win at 39-40, surely Fernando can do it in the right car.

Yeah but that was in the dim and distant past before young hungry Turks the likes of Ricciado,  Bottas,Verstappan not to mention Vettel and Hamilton and Rosberg in top tier cars. IMO the youngsters have got the edge these days. 

[Amin]

Kimi Raikkonen. I think Ferrari will remain Mercedes closest challenger over the next two years and I don't think it's that unlikely that Kimi could beat Seb over a season if he stops making mistakes in qualifying. Although, considering his last three years, that's quite a big caveat. 

[aramos]

Kimi Raikkonen. I think Ferrari will remain Mercedes closest challenger over the next two years and I don't think it's that unlikely that Kimi could beat Seb over a season if he stops making mistakes in qualifying. Although, considering his last three years, that's quite a big caveat. 

 

If is always the key word when discussing Raikkonen's driving.

[sergey1308]

What do you mean by "near future"? 2, 5 or 10 years. I think Massa can't because Williams can't. I wouldn't imagine Williams to have the best car in peloton. Also I doubt is he so quick as was before his crash in 2009. Kimi have a little chances to beat Vettel. Alonso or Button perhaps can win the WDC when McLaren will be again quite fast to win races. But in general i vote for "none of them".

[Buttoneer]

Alonso and Button; no, or at least, too early to tell. The McHonda could all be a very big long-term mistake.
Kimi; shows no sign of beating Vettel, which is your first job if you want to win a WDC.
Felipe; Williams just not up there with the money so I hope they'll stay at the sharp end but it won't be championship winning.

The rider, as always, is the car.

[purplehaireddolphin]

If the Mclarens were competitive AND it was a great car, I'd Say Button could shave it over Alonso, but it would be close. If the car was competitive, but not a great car, Alonso would win over Button, cos he can drag a car round whereas Button needs it to be stable.

 

None of that really matters though cos the car could hardly be worse, if Manor hadn't been re-born, they'd be stone dead last.

Massa? Nah, even at his best, and in a good car, he'd never match Hamilton or Vettel now that Hamilton has more experience

Kimi? Not if he's in the same team as Vettel.

 

I'd say the top drivers are Hamilton Vettel and Alonso, with Button a smidge behind them, but both Button and Alonso have their hands tied