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Was Kvyat the right choice for Red Bull?


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Poll: Was Kvyat the right choice for Red Bull? (149 member(s) have cast votes)

Was Kvyat the right choice for Red Bull?

  1. Yes (47 votes [36.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.43%

  2. No (82 votes [63.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.57%

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#1 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:28

Was he? So far he's having a difficult time. Yes, he's had loads of issues, but also made some mistakes himself. Last year, his one lap pace kept him close to Vergne, but so far he's not showing that either.

 

I think Red Bull should have gone the safe choice and choose Vergne, who's got a lot more experience. He would be closer to Ricciardo than Kvyat is right now.



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#2 brr

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:29

Compared to Ricciardo, Kvyat is about as good as a quadruple world champion.



#3 rammsteinfan

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:30

I always thought they should have promoted JEV. Kvyat was not that impressive and JEV was very close to RIC in 2013. But they have chosen Kvyat clearly as a temporary runner and they thought he would be better. Although probably the RB11 and Renault are just awful to drive.



#4 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:35

We haven't even had a representative race comparison between Kvyat and Ricciardo, so this thread is highly premature. There seems to be a qualifying deficit, but nothing more that we can tell as of now. JEV was made to look silly too often by Kvyat to be considered seriously, especially having already been beaten by Ricciardo. I don't think we lost a potential champion there - time to move on.



#5 Risil

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:41

Bit early to say. But there was no rule that said they had to pick an internal candidate.



#6 Atreiu

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:44

The car is all around and his luck has been poor or rotten. Nobody else would have made such a difference.

 

I expect him to do much better as soon as the cars is reliable and dialed in.



#7 Andrew Hope

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:47

I don't remember much, but I'm sure Kvyat stomped JEV in qualifying more often than the other way around last year, ignoring the wet sessions where Vergne is always good. Hard to say he should be fired because he's not doing the same to Ricciardo 3 races into a new season with a new team with that Renault melting every other lap.


Edited by Andrew Hope, 18 April 2015 - 15:47.


#8 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:48

Placeholder for Max or Sainz, that was why he was hired.

#9 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:52

Is that why they've invested in his junior career since 2010? To be a placeholder for a season? Sounds like a bad investment to me.



#10 brr

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:55

Is that why they've invested in his junior career since 2010? To be a placeholder for a season? Sounds like a bad investment to me.

 

Maybe their crystal ball was made by Honda.



#11 Risil

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 15:58

Is that why they've invested in his junior career since 2010? To be a placeholder for a season? Sounds like a bad investment to me.

 

Meh, you make the investment to give yourself options. How many drivers did Marlboro used to back?

 

No one knows how well any of these drivers will do till they get out there.


Edited by Risil, 18 April 2015 - 15:59.


#12 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:01

Is that why they've invested in his junior career since 2010? To be a placeholder for a season? Sounds like a bad investment to me.

 


More than what Algesuari, Buemi, Vergne, Liuzzi received...

#13 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:07

The problem is, Kvyat's quality was his one lap pace on Saturday. He's not displaying that so far. And well, his racecraft has been poor last season, so he doesn't have anything going to him at the moment.



#14 ebc

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:08

He is still very young and has walked into a struggling team, it takes time for young drivers to get to a point where they can reach their full potential.  Kyvat needs to improve but that is normal for a 20 year old.  Lets give him a season before we can see the level he is at, even then he will still only be 21.



#15 superden

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:08

FFS ...

#16 quaint

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:11

Is this some kind of a local meme that threads with polls have oppositing questions in their title and the poll title, or why is it I see it so often around here? :drunk:


Edited by quaint, 18 April 2015 - 16:11.


#17 noikeee

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:11

This start of the season is not going well for Daniil, but it's too easy to bash him when he's just had a very bad qualifying session. Let's not forget he's still 20 years old!

 

Realistically he's under some serious pressure if the Toro Rosso guys can beat his results, but plenty of time yet for him to turn around this season. I do tend to agree with the majority though, that maybe JEV or someone from outside the Red Bull driver development program would be doing better in that Red Bull. On the other hand both Max Verstappen and Carlos Sainz Jr are looking very ready for F1, so if they had kept Daniil in the 2nd team and hired someone else for a season for the 1st team, there wouldn't have been a seat for one of them.

 

It's complicated, there was no obvious perfect decision when they decided with this lineup.



#18 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:14

Is this some kind of a local meme that threads with polls have oppositing questions in their title and the poll title, or why is it I see it so often around here? :drunk:

 

I've changed this - I suspect we would have otherwise got a unrepresentative result.



#19 jals99

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:14

Give him more time, it is hard to shine with problems in every session every race and against strong teammate



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#20 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:15

Kick him out, BUE all the way!



#21 aramos

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:17

Ricciardo is very strong against every team mate in qualifying, he's never been beaten over a season. It's not really surprising Kvyat is a bit behind. The fact the Red Bull is barely a q3 car now means it's always Kvyat getting caught out.

#22 krobinson

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:19

Well, who would be better? Alonso certainly, but they won't hire him.

Buemi, Jamie, Vergne - quite similar guys who wouldn't amount to much, so better to take a risk on Kvyat.

In anycase, if he doesn't improve, Either Sainz or Verstappen will take over from next year.



#23 Imateria

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:28

He's an inexperienced driver in arguably the worst car Red Bull have ever produced, should it be any surprise that he's struggling a bit? I said at the time he was announced that it was probably a year too early for him, but Red Bull hadn't counted on Vettel jumping ship and it forced their hand to promote him early. Yes, they could have promoted Vergne instead, but that would be the very definition of a place holder signing and I've yet to see any evidence that he'd be doing a notably better job of it than Kvyatt currently is since Ricciardo thrashed him in the second half of 2013 anyway.

 

Overall, I don't think it matters much, the car isn't capable of fighting for more than minor points placings at the moment so Kvyatt has time to sort things out for himself.



#24 Lights

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:33

Not enough data yet. But don't forget that Ricciardo is really good. Vettel could not beat him, so I'm not sure what to expect from Kvyat in that regard.



#25 goingthedistance

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:34

Ricciardo blew Vergne away in 2013, in both quali and races (and very much so in tyre management). For some reason people only remember 2012 between them.

Vergne was not the answer. Kyvat's promotion was a very knee jerk reaction to Vettel's shock defection and it was arguably too early to promote him. Which is not to say he doesn't have a lot of potential, but he's looking a bit rough under the intense pressure of driving for the senior team. They should have looked at Alonso or Button, an experienced head to help with setup and to aid Ricciardo's development.

Red Bull have generally been very arrogant lately and not been willing to hire outside of their own little world. This is hurting them.

#26 Spillage

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:37

A difficult start, but it's too early to say. I was surprised they hired him in the first place, but wouldn't like to write him off just yet.

#27 dweller23

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:42

We haven't even had a representative race comparison between Kvyat and Ricciardo, so this thread is highly premature. There seems to be a qualifying deficit, but nothing more that we can tell as of now. JEV was made to look silly too often by Kvyat to be considered seriously, especially having already been beaten by Ricciardo. I don't think we lost a potential champion there - time to move on.

Fairly sure that Vergne scored 3 times more points than Kvyat. And just to be safe from "but Ricciardo beat Vergne comfortably in 2013" - it's true as well as the fact, that Vergne did the same to Ricciardo in 2012.



#28 aramos

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:47

Fairly sure that Vergne scored 3 times more points than Kvyat. And just to be safe from "but Ricciardo beat Vergne comfortably in 2013" - it's true as well as the fact, that Vergne did the same to Ricciardo in 2012.

 

Well thats not really true, or a fact. Ricciardo was still quite a way ahead of Vergne in races in 2012 and he was in the points more frequently. Its just Vergne got a few high points positions in wet races. Ricciardo beat him in head to head stats both seasons quite comfortably.



#29 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:52

Fairly sure that Vergne scored 3 times more points than Kvyat. And just to be safe from "but Ricciardo beat Vergne comfortably in 2013" - it's true as well as the fact, that Vergne did the same to Ricciardo in 2012.

 

I don't think anyone would dispute that JEV did better than Kvyat over the season, but with his experience he was presumably expected to do so. He did not do enough to warrant the seat - after the early flyaways he was a dead man walking.



#30 Kelateboy

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:55

Don't think so. Would rather have JEV to partner RIC.



#31 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:57

Red Bull have generally been very arrogant lately and not been willing to hire outside of their own little world. This is hurting them.

 

Not hiring outside of their world has also won them four world titles.



#32 GoldenColt

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 16:59

I think the guy is talented enough. He has the pace. However, the switch to RB came too early. At least one year too early.



#33 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:00

I said it at the time and I'll say it again: RB rushed into signing this guy. He's talented no doubt, but its a couple of seasons too early. They'd have been better getting Hulk, imo.



#34 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:03

More than what Algesuari, Buemi, Vergne, Liuzzi received...

 

JEV got three full seasons at Toro Rosso. Kvyat is in his second, albeit obviously having already been promoted to the senior team. Red Bull gave JEV more chances than they gave anyone else. They could easily have replaced him at the end of 2013.



#35 derstatic

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:04

I think it was premature to promote him but they didn't have much choice. Sainz and Verstappen were too good to ignore at Toro Rosso and with Vettel moving away a year earlier than expected what could they have done? JEV obviously but that would have been "place holder" as someone said before. He's a decent enough driver but not the new star they wanted. Kvyat might not be that either but when the decision was made he looked quite good, atleast on pace and calming down a 20 year old quick but wild driver to a competent racer has been done before. He's in a little over his head at the moment but I think we need to give him until the second half of the season before we throw him to the wolves.



#36 wj_gibson

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:05

Not hiring outside of their world has also won them four world titles.


It did, but I'm far from convinced that they're currently hiring the best young drivers further down the ladder any more. They missed out entirely on Vandoorne, for example, and have Gasly on their books in GP2 instead.

#37 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:36

I don't think anyone would dispute that JEV did better than Kvyat over the season, but with his experience he was presumably expected to do so. He did not do enough to warrant the seat - after the early flyaways he was a dead man walking.

And Kvyat did? The only reason Vergne isn't driving that Red Bull is because Marko for some reason holds a grudge against him.



#38 Kristian

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:37

I think its unfair to judge him on 3.5 race weekends in a very problematic car - he's come in at the wrong time (like Perez did at McLaren), and maybe a season too early (don't forget, they intended to give him two seasons at STR). 

 

In hindsight I think JEV would have probably been the better bet with a problematic car, but Kvyat needs to be given more time in order for us to make a good opinion. 



#39 HeadFirst

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:38

I'm not so sure Red Bull was right for Kvyat.



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#40 JosD

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:43

Placeholder for Max or Sainz, that was why he was hired.

 

While I am definitely impressed by Sainz, I cannot see anything else happen than ultimately Verstappen taking one of the RBR seats.



#41 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:46

While I am definitely impressed by Sainz, I cannot see anything else happen than ultimately Verstappen taking one of the RBR seats.

Perhaps both will, as I see Ricciardo ending up at Ferrari at some point, given his Italian roots.



#42 Zava

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 17:58

Placeholder for Max or Sainz, that was why he was hired.

yeah, placeholder for the guy he beat convincingly in gp3.

 

I would have also promoted Vergne if it was up to me, too bad for him that Verstappen's drive was introduced (and known) a month prior to Vettel's departure, thus he already had to make way for Max when it became clear that there's an opening as well.



#43 apoka

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 18:39

Much too early to judge (and it seems Ricciardo is still underrated even after possibly being the best driver in 2014).



#44 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 18:46

And Kvyat did? The only reason Vergne isn't driving that Red Bull is because Marko for some reason holds a grudge against him.

 

Sounds rather conspiratorial to me. The praise JEV gets reminds me of that Kovalainen got while he was at Caterham. There is a willingess to forgive for past failures yet this is a thread wondering whether another younger less experienced driver should be booted out after three inconclusive races. Perhaps RBR actually know what they're doing? Verstappen certainly attests to that.



#45 goingthedistance

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 18:46

Not hiring outside of their world has also won them four world titles.

 

No way. They picked up lots of people to build their dream team back after they took over Jaguar. People like Prodromou, Newey, Rob Marshall and a lot of lower level people. Over the past two years they've lost many key figures (the people that won them those titles) and have not recruited externally much at all. The same attitude has prevailed with their driver program. 


Edited by goingthedistance, 18 April 2015 - 18:47.


#46 Disgrace

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 18:48

No way. They picked up lots of people to build their dream team back after they took over Jaguar. People like Prodromou, Newey, Rob Marshall and a lot of lower level people. Over the past two years they've lost many key figures (the people that won them those titles) and have not recruited externally much at all. The same attitude has prevailed with their driver program. 

 

I assumed you were referring to drivers. My mistake.



#47 goingthedistance

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 18:49

I think its unfair to judge him on 3.5 race weekends in a very problematic car - he's come in at the wrong time (like Perez did at McLaren), and maybe a season too early (don't forget, they intended to give him two seasons at STR). 

 

In hindsight I think JEV would have probably been the better bet with a problematic car, but Kvyat needs to be given more time in order for us to make a good opinion. 

 

JEV was a car killer, he'd have been a disaster this year. 

 

I agree that it's way too early to judge Kyvat though - this poll needs a "it's too early to say" option. 



#48 MortenF1

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 18:59

Voted "No", and I believe I said so too when he got the gig. I expected him to be able to put in some good Q-laps, but generally not be very impressive.

He hasn't been at all so far. He has to improve, or the best one of Verstappen or Sainz will replace him next year, or perhaps even this year!


Edited by race addicted, 18 April 2015 - 19:00.


#49 MikeV1987

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 18:59

Give the guy a chance ffs.



#50 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 19:07

Just last race Kyvat :up: made many nice over takes on Ricciardo.. did people forget already!  :confused:

 

Although I think Verstappen will win more WDCs than Kvyat.