71 replies to this topic

[plumtree]

http://www.fia.com/s...peed_trap_1.pdf
As for today's qualifying the speed trap data suggests he had some car issues. (confirmed) How many he's suffered from so far this season? Way too early to judge. He needs a working car and to have a few clean sessions first and foremost.

Edited by plumtree, 18 April 2015 - 19:34.

[Paincake]

Sorry to say, but I don't have too much pity for Red Bull these days. The way Jean Eric Vergne was never given proper chance to prove himself at higher level team, but a complete rookie such as Kvyat was. Ricciardio is fantastic and I love Red Bull's decision with Rici... but I'm willing to bet Vergne could possibly beat him several times and pose a challenge for him. What is odd is how Vergne beat Kvyat by bringing more then double the amount of points for Torro Rosso. Perhaps I'm just biased? I don't know...

[kimster89]

RBR has much bigger issues to worry about at the moment than Kvyats performance.

[goldenboy]

Bit early to write the kid off yet.

[anneomoly]

I said last year that Kvyat was too young to be promoted to a top team.

 

Thankfully that hasn't happened to him.

[David Lightman]

Oh god not again JEV this, JEV that. Bleurgh.

[Juan Kerr]

They should've gone with Sainz. I don't think they'll keep hold of Verstappen anyway and Kvyat will disappear.

[Eff One 2002]

We're only 3 races into the season. Too early to tell.

[Wander]

He's fine, but not the choice I would've made.

[sopa]

- Red Bull wasn't in an easy situation on the driver market after the sudden departure of Vettel. Probably Red Bull was buoyed by the success of Ricciardo, believing their young driver programme works well and it is worth to take yet another punt. So Dan's success helped other Dan. Leaving aside Alonso, there wasn't a very clearly better option at the time. Vergne could have largely been a step sideways.

 

- Kvyat isn't a star in the making, neither is he a weak driver, but probably he is among "weaker links" in top teams, which means he is under greater scrutiny and ready to get replaced if someone else comes along. The likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Ricciardo or Vettel are not under threat to get replaced. They are the "strong links" in top teams. That's what I mean.

 

- Every driver has better and worse periods of performance. Obviously Kvyat is going through a rougher period now, he has not adapted well to the car. Let's see how his performance fluctuates over a full year.

 

They should've gone with Sainz. I don't think they'll keep hold of Verstappen anyway and Kvyat will disappear.

 

Actually last year Kvyat performed very similar to Sainz right now. He made it into Q3 a few times in the Toro Rosso. Looking at their careers so far, I can't see evidence of Sainz being a better bet than Kvyat.

 

I can rather understand the point of promoting Vergne. He would have been a good experienced driver especially as a stop-gap. Driver, who sits there in Red Bull for 1-2 seasons and collects decent points. The thing was that Red Bull wanted to promote the driver with better long-term potential, not whether who would be better with immediate effect in the beginning.

 

---

 

Overalll.... Kvyat's situation reminds a lot of Perez in 2013. With every race weekend more and more.  Perez also struggled to adapt to McLaren, coming good only later in the season. In hindsight it has often been criticized that Hulkenberg would have been a better choice for McLaren. Well, let's see, who could have retrospectively been a better choice for Red Bull?!?!

[rpn453]

Give the guy a chance ffs.

This should be the third option on the poll.

 

I preferred JEV over Kvyat because he entertained me more on track.  I also thought JEV did enough over the years at what really counts - scoring points - to get the promotion.  But Red Bull has a lot more information than I about which driver is more suitable for their program, so I'm not going to second guess them this early in the season.

[aramos]

Oh god not again JEV this, JEV that. Bleurgh.

 

Its based on the common misconception that JEV outperformed Ricciardo in 2012

[sopa]

By the way, had Vergne got Kvyat's car, it is unlikely he would have scored any more points so far. Double DNF with car failures plus 9th place in Malaysia in front of Ricciardo. Who would have done better? 

[David Lightman]

By the way, had Vergne got Kvyat's car, it is unlikely he would have scored any more points so far. Double DNF with car failures plus 9th place in Malaysia in front of Ricciardo. Who would have done better? 

JEV is a racing god who transcends his machinery and would have 3 wins under his belt by now.

 

Or something.

[skc]

He usually comes good during the race

[DutchQuicksilver]

Well, what if Vettel's departure was announced before Toro Rosso had announced Verstappen? Could it be that Red Bull didn't choose Vergne because it would make them look bad? Like, he was ousted by Toro Rosso because of Verstappen's announcement, and it would make Red Bull look bad if they choose an ousted driver.

[zanquis]

yeah, placeholder for the guy he beat convincingly in gp3.

Yeah he beat him in the past but based on that you can not predict the entire future. Maybe the beating by kyvat and missing out on F1 made him more serious. Many young drivers trust in talent alone. Unyil beaten on talent and start realising that the need to add hard work. Schumacher became a lot better when he learned how his teammates could drive the Sauber car faster and making the tires last longer and use less fuel.he got his ass whooped in testing and as a result grew better. He realized more that he needed to drive smarter to go faster.

[sniper80]

This will be one year only... not impressive at all.

[MustangSally]

Just last race Kyvat  made many nice over takes on Ricciardo.. did people forget already! 

 

Although I think Verstappen will win more WDCs than Kvyat.

 

Yes, he has good moments. I just don't see him putting whole weekends together very often.

 

In Q, the final tally between Kvyat and Vergne was 12 - 7 . . . same as Hulk v Perez. But he never capitalised on the advantage, losing badly over the season on points. And his highest placed Q was only one spot higher than JEV, along with his average. 

 

Didn't see a convincing case for him being promoted . . . or either of them. 

[emmanuelrubi]

Worst choice by Red Bull in recent years this kid is not top team level and as soon as Max is ready RB is gonna sack him and they need to do that fast.

[Kristian]

I think its a bit harsh on him - he is still young and suddenly got thrust into a top team as its on the slide, like Perez at McLaren. I didn't exactly notice Ricciardo today either. I think Kvyat just needs some patience and more time; he's had a lot of bad luck this season. At least he looks like he's trying. 

[goingthedistance]

 I didn't exactly notice Ricciardo today either. I think Kvyat just needs some patience and more time; he's had a lot of bad luck this season. At least he looks like he's trying. 

 

Clearly, or you'd have noticed that Dan finished a whopping 40 seconds in front of Kyvat despite starting behind him and being on the exact same tyre strategy. Even worse almost all of that gap was accumulated while both were in clean air in the second half of the race. Kyvat's fastest lap was 0.7 seconds slower than Dan's, which also looks to be about the average a lap slower he was across the entire race. 

 

Now I seem to recall a few years back when Vettel beat Webber by 30 seconds all the commentators lauded the performance and said how amazing it was to beat one's team-mate by that sort of margin, but because this happened in the mid-field people like you don't even notice it. 

 

I was keen to say how Daniil matched up to Dan this year, but in the races I have seen no improvement yet. Is it too early? Maybe. What is clear is that at the moment in terms of race pace and tyre management Ricciardo is markedly better. If Kyvat does not improve by the summer break he will have to start watching his back as that sort of margin to your team-mate is not acceptable. And you can't blame reliability they have suffered pretty equally overall at this point. Indeed, in this race Daniel was the one that essentially missed all of P1 and P2, not Kyvat. 

Edited by goingthedistance, 10 May 2015 - 16:29.