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IndyCar driver practiced but never raced


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 08:24

Rocky Moran jr. practiced in Long Beach but after he suffered injuries he can't race. He has just a one-race-contract.

 

Are there IndyCar drivers with no races in their career but showed up in official practices?



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#2 Amphicar

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:05

After Jim Clark's death at Hockenheim on 7 April 1968, Colin Chapman asked Mike Spence to join the Lotus team for the Indy 500. Sadly Spence was killed during official practice on 7 May, when he touched the wall in the Lotus 56 turbine car and a front wheel hit his helmet, causing massive head injuries.

.



#3 ensign14

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:38

There are loads just from Indy alone.  Bob Cortner, George Metzler and Johnny Hannon are just for starters of those killed when trying to get into what would have been their first 500.

 

There's a list of Champcar drivers in order of starts here, so you can see how many never qualified.  Potsy Goacher gets the Claudio Langes record of zero successful attempts to qualify from 10 attempts.  Although whether Puffy Puffer is a genuine driver as opposed to a copyright trap is a question for others to consider.



#4 Risil

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:52

A few names from that list include Elliot Forbes-Robinson, Justin Bell, Aldo Andretti, Juan Manuel Fangio, Peter Collins, Chief Sun-Hawk (apparently born in Indian territory, now Oklahoma in 1879) and Pedro Rodriguez. No doubt people who know more than me will be able to explain whether they in fact count as "practised but never raced".

 

In conclusion if you ever see a historian of Indy-style racing, buy them a drink.


Edited by Risil, 19 April 2015 - 11:55.


#5 ensign14

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 12:00

Rodriguez practised at Indy in the sixties in a Cooper with liquid suspension.  Bell was there in the IRL days, same as Johnny Herbert.  Collins was entered in a Ferrari sportscar at somewhere (Trenton?) so may have been a DNA rather than a DNQ.  Fangio had a quick look at Indy in 1958 in a Walther car that Mike Magill eventually qualified.

 

I wonder whether Chief Sun-Hawk, if he truly existed, had about as much Amerinidian blood as me.  C.f. Joie Chitwood or the "Frenchman" Leon Duray. 



#6 ensign14

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 12:04

OK, here is the Chief, but still no idea how Native he was.



#7 Risil

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 12:07

Champcarstats.com has him entered in a race in Syracuse in 1931, sponsored by someone/something called Hawkeye. So I wondered if it was some sort of publicity stunt (Sun-Hawk, Hawkeye).

 

Looking at that photo I'm guessing it wasn't that usual for a driver in 1938 to put his own logo on the side of a car.


Edited by Risil, 19 April 2015 - 12:07.


#8 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 13:23

Ah, I'm glad someone asked this question.

 

Now - the question here is - Do I include Rocky Moran Jr. on my North American Racers list on Where Are They Now - http://www.oldracingcars.com/drivers/watn/?Category=IRL 

 

It's a somewhat loosely named category for all those who qualified or non-qualified for an IRL or Champ Car race since the formation of CART in 1980 BUT  who don't appear in any other category - i.e. F1, Indy 500 etc etc. Confused already?

 

Now, Moran won't attempt to qualify through no fault of his own. My rules for the Indianapolis 500 (although the earlier races fog the issue somewhat) and Formula 1 is that they needed to have at least attempted to qualify (what I mean by this, is that I don't include FP1 drivers like Jolyon Palmer, no serious practice appearance regarding race).

 

The question is, did Moran "attempt" to qualify by taking into account his apperance and subsequent injury in practice? Thoughts welcome



#9 Sheepmachine

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 13:26

Didn't Johnny Herbert practice for the Indy 500 in like 2002?

#10 Risil

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 13:34

Didn't Johnny Herbert practice for the Indy 500 in like 2002?

 

Yep, as mentioned by Ensign in post 5. :)



#11 Risil

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 13:41

Now, Moran won't attempt to qualify through no fault of his own. My rules for the Indianapolis 500 (although the earlier races fog the issue somewhat) and Formula 1 is that they needed to have at least attempted to qualify (what I mean by this, is that I don't include FP1 drivers like Jolyon Palmer, no serious practice appearance regarding race).

 

The question is, did Moran "attempt" to qualify by taking into account his apperance and subsequent injury in practice? Thoughts welcome

 

Tricky! If your goal was to exclude the practice-buyers like Chanoch Nissany -- who have very little to do with the sporting element of motor racing -- then I think Moran Jr can be included. "Attempt" here means something like "was a serious entrant". Coyne's intention to run him in qualifying and the race is documented, so for me he gets through on that score.


Edited by Risil, 19 April 2015 - 13:42.


#12 Sheepmachine

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 13:49

Yep, as mentioned by Ensign in post 5. :)

Oops :blush:

#13 prommer

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 16:40

Wonderful thread, which I'm sadly about to derail because I don't know where else to put this question: do you think Coyne refunded Moran Jr his money, or did he cash the check, as in, that's racing, sorry bud?  I would feel very sad for Moran if he paid six figures for what turned out to be about 14 minutes of practice time in a Coyne car.  Does anyone know how these things work?



#14 ensign14

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 16:57


The question is, did Moran "attempt" to qualify by taking into account his apperance and subsequent injury in practice? Thoughts welcome

 

You include Masami Kuwashima in the F1 list, so...



#15 Seth

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 18:51

My recollection is that Pedro Rodriguez practiced at Indy in 1963 with the same chassis raced by Jack Brabham there in 1961, with the frame lengthened and a 4.2 liter Aston Martin engine replacing the 2.7 liter Coventry Climax.  It did not have liquid suspension, as I recall--Cooper was the first to use that, also in 1963, in its Formula Junior car, as an option--the design took it into account, but not on the Indy car, whose older design did not.  The first use of the liquid suspension at Indy was in 1964, on the Huffaker MG Liquid Suspension Special.  They made a big deal of it being the first such application at Indianapolis, the year after Rodriguez was there in the Cooper, so I am pretty sure of my recollection. 

 

After the debacle in 1964, fuel capacity was limited, and a weight minimum was imposed, so any advantage of the liquid suspension would have been minimized, and I do not recall its being used again, despite Walt Hansgen's success with it in the race. 

 

To add to the list, sports car driver Billy Krause also practiced at Indy in 1963, in one of the Mickey Thompson roller-skate cars, failed to qualify, and was never heard from again.  To be fair, World Champion and later Indy 500 winner (as a rookie) Graham Hill also practiced in one of the Thompson cars in 1963 and failed to qualify, so that is no reflection on Mr. Krause's abilities.   Masten Gregory practiced in the fastest Thompson car, the red titanium-framed one, and failed to qualify--that same car was eventually put in the field by Duane Carter.  So some good drivers were unsuccessful with the same type of car as Krause used.  

 

As I recall,  Graham Hill was not a happy camper that year--I don't know if the car had anything to do with it, but he complained right and left about things at the Speedway.  He did say that the worst thing, though, was the lack of doors on the stalls in the men's room, so it seems like they were little niggling irritations, if that was the worst.  Of course, he did later win the thing.  I was not there in 1966, so I cannot compare the attitudes, but I assume it was all good.


Edited by Seth, 19 April 2015 - 20:02.