122 replies to this topic

[Sanzx81]

Apologies if I mess this up, it's my first poll attempt.

Re:- DRS, I personally think it's awful and create "fake" passing. I'd rather they banned it, even if we have fewer passes as a result of it.

Do you agree or disagree?

[cjm321190]

All they need to do is get rid of DRS. They already use less fuel than the 100kg. So it you want to pass turn up the turbo and pass, in the 80's that is how it worked usually with an extra 200bhp or so. Trade off is reliability and fuel usage.

[Hyatt]

get rid of DRS and wings and all the overblown aerostuff .... back to groundeffect!

[Kristian]

I kind of like it, but maybe some tweaks.... for example, get rid of the need to be within a second, but a limit on the amount of times it can be used in a race - e.g. a percentage of the race length. Then drivers have a choice to use it to overtake, or make up some time on a lap to chase someone down, and it can be used strategically. 

 

Maybe - and I know this would be unpopular - there could be a grading scale of DRS usage based on championship position. e.g. 5% for the leader, 10% for 2nd place, 15% for 3rd.... 50% for 10th, then 60% for the rest of the grid. For example, the Championship leader in a 56 lap race with 2 DRS zones would be able to deploy it 6 times in a race, whereas his rival behind him in the championship can deploy it 11 times. The bottom end of the grid would be able to deploy it 67 times. Then the TV graphics can show how many deployments each driver has left. Its basically a kind of success ballast that doesn't affect the overall speed of the car. 

 

Just throwing out ideas for discussion ,really  

[Loops]

But are there more overtakes? Much is being made of dirty air, and it being impossible to overtake. I'm not sure how true that is, but Seb not overtaking Bottas for example. It looks like the whole thing needs to be reviewed.

[The Kanisteri]

Keep DRS.

[CountDooku]

For current rules, keep DRS.

 

If we go back to more ground effects, ban it as it won't be needed.

[Spillage]

I wouldn't like to see how few overtakes we'd have without it. One only has to look at the average DRS train to see how races might become processional. In an aero-dominated sport, I think DRS is a necessity.

[ConsiderAndGo]

DRS has to be kept.

 

In the current formula where tire saving is crucial (it sucks), DRS is the only thing that allows a car to follow another closely.

[Scotracer]

Wasn't expecting those results.

 

I don't like DRS. Never have. 

[TheRacingElf]

How can someone like those fake "overtakes"? Absolutely no skill needed, just press a button.. Why would you try an overtake at an unexpected place if you can just wait for the next DRS zone and drive past, it's really pathetic

[CountDooku]

Wasn't expecting those results.

 

I don't like DRS. Never have. 

 

It's a necessary evil with the rules now. I remember when Magny Cours, Silverstone (!!!), Hungary etc were impossible to pass on. With DRS at least you can race on these tracks now, though calibration can still be an issue.

 

Nothing beats a draft pass and late braking for excitement (HAM on RAI Monza 2007) but some tracks were simply terrible for racing in those days.

[Radoye]

Keep DRS bud get rid of DRS zones. Or in other words, allow movable aiero around the whole lap, without restriction, for defending as well as attacking.

[Majki2111]

Beeing nostalgic is stupid. To ban DRS would be a step backwards. Or deploy better zones or DRS active trough whole lap.

[Nonesuch]

'A' DRS is fine, this 'run by the FIA'-DRS not so much. Open up development, allow the drivers to use it wherever and whenever they want. Let them slide off if they misjudge. Allow a team to be the class of the field in DRS innovation. Get some competition involved.

[Mat13]

The above is my thinking too. DRS itself is a brilliant idea, perfectly suited on a racing car- it's just the way it's implemented that brings about the problems.

[TheRacingElf]

I could live with it if the car in front has the opportunity to defend. Use it like a push to pass, for example a driver can use DRS 10 times in a race or for an x amount of seconds and you are allowed to use it wherever you want. That way the car in front has atleast a chance to defend his position. 

[ANF]

Apologies if I mess this up, it's my first poll attempt.

Re:- DRS, I personally think it's awful and create "fake" passing. I'd rather they banned it, even if we have fewer passes as a result of it.

Do you agree or disagree?

Not only does it often create RIDICULOUSLY EASY overtaking; it KILLS the art of defensive driving, and the mere PRINCIPLE of PUNISHING a driver for being IN FRONT on the track is DISGUSTING.

[sergey1308]

I'm not sure definitely is it good or bad. But I dislike restrictions such as you should be  1 second behind and can use drs only in particular place. Formula 1 is needed other decisions to let drivers be closer each other and to raise number of overtakes.

[hamilton10000]

Not only does it often create RIDICULOUSLY EASY overtaking; it KILLS the art of defensive driving, and the mere PRINCIPLE of PUNISHING a driver for being IN FRONT on the track is DISGUSTING.

Bahrain 2014?

[MikeMM]

How can someone like those fake "overtakes"? Absolutely no skill needed, just press a button.. Why would you try an overtake at an unexpected place if you can just wait for the next DRS zone and drive past, it's really pathetic

 

Was it that easy for Vettel to overtake Bottas?

[redreni]

I voted ban it, although now that the moveable aero is on the cars there's no reason not to continue to use it. Just let everyone use it whenever they want, and deactivate it in the wet as happens now. So what I want banned is its use as an overtaking aid.

[noikeee]

Half of this board needs to spend an afternoon watching a couple random races from the 2000s from start to the end, then tell me with a straight face you're not bored to death.

[Rob]

They should man up and fix the aero instead of using the "putting a sticking plaster on a broken arm" approach that is DRS.

[Kristian]

Half of this board needs to spend an afternoon watching a couple random races from the 2000s from start to the end, then tell me with a straight face you're not bored to death.

 

Yeah the grooved tyre, refuelling era had some dire ones-  Hungary 1999 or 2000 was particularly bad I recall. Frequently back then we would have less than 5 legitimate overtakes on the track in a race. 

[TheRacingElf]

Half of this board needs to spend an afternoon watching a couple random races from the 2000s from start to the end, then tell me with a straight face you're not bored to death.

And now tell me with a straight face you get excited by a car driving past another car using an unfair advantage of being able to open his Super Mario flap. I get really bored of THAT, in the years 2000s you had less position changes but with every overtake I was on the edge of my seat!

 

I much prefer 4 real overtakes than 40 DRS overtakes, It's quality over quantity in my book

[Garndell]

I would like to see DRS banned but only after thay solve the turbulent air problems.  Right now just removing DRS would see probably 75% to 90% of the current overtakes gone with a lot of processional racing left over.  I can't see the FIA in it's current form doing anything other than more things like DRS though.

[Jacobss]

Half of this board needs to spend an afternoon watching a couple random races from the 2000s from start to the end, then tell me with a straight face you're not bored to death.

Not everyone has the same opinion as you. I watched F1 those days, I also re-watch races from 1998-2010 (have over a terabyte of recordings ) and im not bored at all. I watch them regularly (that V10 sound  - ofc i mean with that 98-05 years). To be honest, I can tell you with a straight face I was bored to death with races in 2014. So? I like to watch actions like Alonso vs Schumacher in Imola 2005 and 2006, where we had a fight for 30 laps and although we had not even one overtake, it was tousand times better to watch than 100 overtakes with DRS.

 

Also, how could anyone be F1 fan, if they were bored to death in the 2000s? Some examples: (yes, I know it didnt happen everytime, but I still love that more than entire DRS era)

 

 

 

I just prefer a good battle, instead of many easy overtakes.

 

I voted against DRS of course.

Edited by Jacobss, 22 April 2015 - 13:21.

[ViMaMo]

I think the DRS rule is fair. Get close enough, you can deploy. I see no issues. This is not i wanted but im happy to adjust to the present solution to lack of overtaking. 

[ANF]

Bahrain 2014?

Bahrain 2014 had Rosberg making three or four EASY passes into T1, but he kept overshooting the corner.

[Radion]

If it wasn't for DRS, we would not have this great display of driving. Just amazing how Lewis breaks, but Alonso reacts to it in a split second. THIS is real racing. MORE OF IT PLEASE! 

 

 

[Jon83]

If it wasn't for DRS, we would not have this great display of driving. Just amazing how Lewis breaks, but Alonso reacts to it in a split second. THIS is real racing. MORE OF IT PLEASE! 

 

 

But Alonso was always going to make the pass, probably in the main due to tyres - and in the end did it with the assistance of DRS. 

 

I don't see how not passing someone at the earliest opportunity and waiting to get DRS (or to avoid his opponent getting DRS) is "real racing" as you put it. It may be considered smart by some, but it just makes it even more fake IMO.

 

Spa 2013, Hamilton went wide in the first corner and it was later suggested he did this so he could use DRS on Alonso on the Kemmel straight. I don't know if that were true or not and he didn't simply make a mistake into T1, but if the theory was true, is that really what we are calling "real racing" now. If so, not for me. 

 

Apologies in advance if I have misread your post. 

[Jon83]

Also, some of these double DRS zones, such as in Malaysia where one car can pass into the final corner using DRS, only to then be re-passed into T1, again due to DRS, need to go. 

[MasterOfCoin]

DRS is an absolute must in this F1 era, it's effects can be seen when a driver is out of position, being able to fight their way back to the front, and getting some valuable points for the team. (ex...Massa in Bahrain).

[PlatenGlass]

I'm surprised so many people have voted to keep it. Maybe it's the bit in brackets - "more overtakes are better". I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that bit! The problem is that it is a "quick fix" "sticking plaster solution", which is idiotic given how long the problem of lacking of overtaking existed before they introduced it. How long would you say it was a problem for? There's not an exact race where overtaking suddenly went from being possible to impossible, but I'd say it was a specific problem at least from 1994 - the start of the refuelling era. And DRS was introduced in 2011. So that's 17 years.

I could understand if a problem suddenly occurred and they decided they needed an immediate quick fix while they sorted it out properly, but waiting for 17 years does not fall into that category. There was no reasonable excuse for bringing DRS. People have been saying for years how to make overtaking more possible (e.g. less reliance on aero grip), but nothing was ever done about it and then suddenly in 2011 they urgently needed to bring in DRS. Total nonsense.

[tmekt]

Not everyone has the same opinion as you. I watched F1 those days, I also re-watch races from 1998-2010 (have over a terabyte of recordings ) and im not bored at all. I watch them regularly (that V10 sound - ofc i mean with that 98-05 years). To be honest, I can tell you with a straight face I was bored to death with races in 2014. So? I like to watch actions like Alonso vs Schumacher in Imola 2005 and 2006, where we had a fight for 30 laps and although we had not even one overtake, it was tousand times better to watch than 100 overtakes with DRS.

Also, how could anyone be F1 fan, if they were bored to death in the 2000s? Some examples: (yes, I know it didnt happen everytime, but I still love that more than entire DRS era)

https://www.youtube....h?v=FVoScgNlPNA

https://www.youtube....h?v=svBJRumK6Vc

I just prefer a good battle, instead of many easy overtakes.

I voted against DRS of course.

It's not that black and white. We do still get those kind of battles every once in a while (of which some are even created by DRS) but we on the other hand don't have to suffer through the 90% of the boredom that came with the never-ending Trulli trains, fuel strategy BS, etc.

Remember for example all the great overtakes we saw from Kimi in 2012-2013? Half of those wouldn't have happened without DRS. We wouldn't have gotten Bahrain 2014. DRS (and Pirelli) has produced interesting races in (dry) Hungary and even in Valencia. I'll take that over 2004 any day.

F1 has many problems but I don't think DRS is necessarily one of them.

...
EDIT: btw a nice way to get the poll results you want with that kind of wording

Edited by tmekt, 22 April 2015 - 15:01.

[wingwalker]

Half of this board needs to spend an afternoon watching a couple random races from the 2000s from start to the end, then tell me with a straight face you're not bored to death.

Seriously. Or just the 2010 Bahrain vs the last two ones.

[R Soul]

Overtake is a verb, not a noun. There's no such thing as 'an overtake'.

 

I voted for banning DRS, although I'm open to allowing a free for all. The main thing I dislike is that the driver ahead is defenceless despite his car having it's own DRS which is fully functional.

 

Someone said that DRS allows a fast, out-of-position driver to carve his way through the field, but think of the other view. It deprives us of David and Goliath battles when a midfield driver is higher up than normal because of a front runner having a problem early on.

[RealRacing]

The closeness of this poll shows why F1 is currently in the state it's in...

[Dan333SP]

Jarno Trulli during his Toyota years would be strongly opposed to DRS.

 

I, however, think it's a necessary evil given the aero sensitivity of the cars, and it adds to the show. It doesn't benefit any one driver more than another (now that the F-duct is gone), and once someone is passed they can use it themselves to latch back onto the driver that got by. My one DRS regret is MSC losing a podium spot in Montreal 2011.

[ANF]

I'm surprised so many people have voted to keep it. Maybe it's the bit in brackets - "more overtakes are better". I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that bit! The problem is that it is a "quick fix" "sticking plaster solution", which is idiotic given how long the problem of lacking of overtaking existed before they introduced it. How long would you say it was a problem for? There's not an exact race where overtaking suddenly went from being possible to impossible, but I'd say it was a specific problem at least from 1994 - the start of the refuelling era. And DRS was introduced in 2011. So that's 17 years.

I could understand if a problem suddenly occurred and they decided they needed an immediate quick fix while they sorted it out properly, but waiting for 17 years does not fall into that category. There was no reasonable excuse for bringing DRS. People have been saying for years how to make overtaking more possible (e.g. less reliance on aero grip), but nothing was ever done about it and then suddenly in 2011 they urgently needed to bring in DRS. Total nonsense.

People said it was difficult to overtake in 1992 as well, and sure enough, when Patrese stopped for tyres in the German GP, he lost positions to drivers who were on a non-stop race and had to fight very hard to get them back: first against Schumacher for P3, then against Senna for P2. For me, watching battles like these go on for ten or fifteen minutes is EXCITING. Watching a driver open the rear wing and breeze past on the straight is NOT.

[hittheapex]

I don't buy the argument about DRS being good for helping drivers "out of position." They're usually out of position because they, their team or engine supplier made a mistake. Tough. Do a better job next time. You had your chance to be at the front in qualifying and you blew it. Even worse if you blew when at the front. Occasionally you'll get bad luck but you will get good luck another time.

 

If I want to see a formula that is only about pure speed and doesn't place a lot on racecraft or strategy, I'll watch rallying or hillclimb racing. That's not to look down on rallying or hillclimbing, but they are different to F1.

 

If DRS has to stay, make it strategic, give each driver the same number of uses during a race. Like an "eco friendly" boost button. Right now it's possible to get a situation where Driver A dominates the race, there's a safety car at the end of the race and he gets done thanks to Super Mario Flap.

[SirVanhan]

Keep DRS until they fix aerodynamic. Then ban it forever. DRS is good for the current state of the sport, as without it we wouldn't have many overtakes, we would still be in the pre-DRS/Kers borefest era. The problem is they will never fix aerodynamic for good.

[Jerem]

I'd rather see DRS-assisted passes than one driver sitting behind the one ahead, not even trying to get close, because it will damage his tyres and he will never be able to pass anyway. Which is what would happen in most cases nowadays.

 

I'm also happy that DRS helps them try different strategies that they would have no hope to make stick without it... one more stop with the need to pass many cars on track while being faster is exciting, but nobody would do it with the prospect of getting stuck forever behind a much slower car and no chance to get past.

 

So yes, it sometimes look too easy (sometimes it also looks useless, btw) and that you can't defend... but even with DRS you usually have to be smart to make it stick, and you can defend if you're quick enough. Plus it makes non-DRS passes even better! Your opponent expects you to attack in the DRS zone and you do it somewhere else, outsmarting him...

 

Overall I feel we're better off with it than without.

Edited by Jerem, 22 April 2015 - 15:36.

[quaint]

DRS has to be kept.

 

In the current formula where tire saving is crucial (it sucks), DRS is the only thing that allows a car to follow another closely.

 

But DRS doesn't really do that. It does nothing to help a car follow another in corners.

 

It may be set up to give the following car a tenth or two in a DRS zone, or it may give a free pass to anyone with even the slightest bit of traction advantage off the corner leading to the DRS zone. When set up perfectly (and note, this is very rare) it gives us those braking battles into corners after the DRS zone, but most of the time all it does is to completely negate the advantage of track position, thus removing many alternative strategies from play.

[Tourgott]

"And if you no longer go for a chance to push the button, you are no longer a racing driver"

[Enzoluis]

I would only make two changes 1) Allow to use it when the follower car has passe two times ate less than 1 second in the detection zone. 2) Do not make DRS zones where there is natural overtaking curve. Like a hairpin after a long straight. 

[MasterOfCoin]

Overtake is a verb, not a noun. There's no such thing as 'an overtake'.

 

I voted for banning DRS, although I'm open to allowing a free for all. The main thing I dislike is that the driver ahead is defenceless despite his car having it's own DRS which is fully functional.

 

Someone said that DRS allows a fast, out-of-position driver to carve his way through the field, but think of the other view. It deprives us of David and Goliath battles when a midfield driver is higher up than normal because of a front runner having a problem early on.

Actually what we see with DRS is when the cars are similar, like Vettel and Kimi at this years race in Bahrain it's very difficult to overtake similar cars, while another competitors cars might have less traction or less horsepower so those passes seem easier. as for the "David and Goliath" battles i just like to see the best man/car win. 

[R Soul]

But you'll see that in the next race or two when Goliath's car doesn't have a problem at the start, or David's team doesn't make a get a fluke result after taking a chance on strategy.

Edited by R Soul, 22 April 2015 - 16:54.

[SenorSjon]

Overtake is a verb, not a noun. There's no such thing as 'an overtake'.

 

I voted for banning DRS, although I'm open to allowing a free for all. The main thing I dislike is that the driver ahead is defenceless despite his car having it's own DRS which is fully functional.

 

Someone said that DRS allows a fast, out-of-position driver to carve his way through the field, but think of the other view. It deprives us of David and Bernoldi battles when a midfield driver is higher up than normal because of a front runner having a problem early on.

 

 

Watch Monaco 2006 for a lesson why DRS should go. Schumacher passed ihis way to 6th or 7th on a track where you cannot overtake. It is a driver skill to be a good overtaker and that is taken away.