60 replies to this topic

[kimster89]

Since its spring break and not much to talk about, lets do this. Please behave and bare in mind this is not the "which driver i like the most" question but which one do you objectively think is the best right now so put some thinking in before you vote.

 

I voted Lewis Hamilton because he seems to have the biggest edge on his not to bad team mate.

[Tourgott]

Alonso for sure.

[redraven9]

Alonso and Hamilton
Although we are yet to see Lewis in a bad car

[Quickshifter]

Alonso. What he did at Ferrari was even more impressive than his two world championships. What he has shown at Mclaren already where his work ethic and attitude has been super impressive. Rather than moaning and whining about an uncompetitive car he has shown he is a fantastic team man. Alonso has the speed, talent, experience, race craft and work ethic. There may be drivers who may be marginally better in one of the traits but when it comes to the overall package Alonso is far ahead of the pack.

[GreenTree]

Current champions Fighting for Podiums:

Pole to Flag: Vettel & Hamilton (unbeatable)
Come from behind: Alonso (great positioning)
Cut through the field: Raikkonen (no ones better)
Mixed Conditions: Button (6th sense for it)
.

Edited by GreenTree, 23 April 2015 - 09:12.

[Tsarwash]

Alonso. What he did at Ferrari was even more impressive than his two world championships. What he has shown at Mclaren already where his work ethic and attitude has been super impressive. Rather than moaning and whining about an uncompetitive car he has shown he is a fantastic team man. Alonso has the speed, talent, experience, race craft and work ethic. There may be drivers who may be marginally better in one of the traits but when it comes to the overall package Alonso is far ahead of the pack.

While I agree with what you say, I think that you can also say it about Button.

Best is a subjective word which could mean many different things. Does it necessarily mean, 'who is most likely to win the WDC on any given year?' Does it mean,'who is most likely to help a team win the WCC ?' In my mind the OP's question is not specific enough to answer.

[kosmos]

Alonso and Hamilton, but I think they are very close, they have their own strength and weakness but they are excellent at every aspect of being a F1 driver. Is easy to vote for Hamilton right know, so I guess he will win, understandably so.

[Cesc]

Current champions Fighting for Podiums:

Pole to Flag: Vettel & Hamilton (unbeatable)
Come from behind: Alonso (great positioning)
Cut through the field: Raikkonen (no ones better)
Mixed Conditions: Button (6th sense for it)
.

 

Well, when you have the best car that is easier. I guess someone like Bottas or Ricciardo could do similar with the car superiority they have/had.

After the last race Kimi seems to be again on people's mind, but to be honest, much better than him I see Ricciardo, Bottas and Button at least (apart from Hamilton, Alonso) and Vettel, a litle bit better.

Edited by Cesc, 23 April 2015 - 09:46.

[PlatenGlass]

How does Raikkonen make the list above Ricciardo?

I'd say Hamilton and Alonso based on a high level of performance over a number of years. Ricciardo hasn't proved himself over such a period, but is arguably in the same league. Vettel needs to rebuild his reputation after last year. Raikkonen - not a consideration for me since he joined Ferrari the first time. One race finishing ahead of Vettel does not undo the damage.

[Smile17]

Alonso and Hamilton, but I think they are very close, they have their own strength and weakness but they are excellent at every aspect of being a F1 driver. Is easy to vote for Hamilton right know, so I guess he will win, understandably so.

 

Out of the car Alonso is just that much better if you ask me.

[Nonesuch]

First of all, these are all fantastic drivers. The differences between them are very small and the balance between them changes mostly due to a whole range of external factors. They all have their ups and downs, and it has to be kept in mind that they can only showcase their skills to the degree that the cars (and Pirelli tyres) allow.

 

That being said, Hamilton might just be in the form of his life at the moment. Every one of the mentioned drivers would probably have a tough time matching him.

 

I voted for Alonso, not because I think he is The Best, end of story, but because of the drivers listed his on-track actions have most impressed and excited me. I think it's fair to take the latter into consideration, as we are not team principals worried solely about performance, but probably also want to be entertained when watching the races.

[GreenTree]

How does Raikkonen make the list above Ricciardo?

I'd say Hamilton and Alonso based on a high level of performance over a number of years. Ricciardo hasn't proved himself over such a period, but is arguably in the same league. Vettel needs to rebuild his reputation after last year. Raikkonen - not a consideration for me since he joined Ferrari the first time. One race finishing ahead of Vettel does not undo the damage.

1 season does not undo 9 seasons of brilliance as well. 2014 doesn't hold equal weight against 01, 03, 05, 07, 12 & 13 for a drivers career.

Edited by GreenTree, 23 April 2015 - 09:28.

[Timorous]

Current champions Fighting for Podiums:

Pole to Flag: Vettel & Hamilton (unbeatable)
Come from behind: Alonso (great positioning)
Cut through the field: Raikkonen (no ones better)
Mixed Conditions: Button (6th sense for it)
.

All the drivers you name have had good showings in the categories you state.

 

Hard to decide between Hamilton and Alonso though. I expect both have gotten better since 2007 so using that as a basis of comparison is a bit flawed and if you do the best you can say is they are very evenly matched, which is about where I would put them now.

[robefc]

1 season does not undo 9 seasons of brilliance as well. 2014 isn't the benchmark against 01, 03, 05, 07, 12 & 13 for a drivers career.

You've only put forward 6 seasons, where are the other 3 seasons of brilliance?

[MikeV1987]

Hamilton 100%

 

i would welcome him to the red team

Edited by MikeV1987, 23 April 2015 - 09:34.

[robefc]

I don't know the answer but I would love to see any combination of Lewis, Seb and Fernando in the same team.

[GreenTree]

You've only put forward 6 seasons, where are the other 3 seasons of brilliance?

02, 04, 09. Seriously, people out here are bit stuck up lol.

[Nonesuch]

Raikkonen - not a consideration for me since he joined Ferrari the first time.

 

Finishing 3rd in the WDC in 2012 wasn't worthy of your consideration, nor was his impressive run a year later?

 

That's fair enough, of course, but Räikkönen has a solid reputation for a good reason, not just because he did a good job at McLaren in 2003.

[Redback]

I agree with Hamilton and Alonso, but last year we saw what Alonso did to Raikkonen and what Ricciardo did to Vettel.

 

Did you sleep through 2014?

[molpid]

HAM

[Cesc]

1 season does not undo 9 seasons of brilliance as well. 2014 doesn't hold equal weight against 01, 03, 05, 07, 12 & 13 for a drivers career.

It would if the driver was Alonso, as we are still reading about first half of 2004 and how Trulli beat him in qualis...

 

Sorry, but his level in 2014 was dismal. Similar at the worse level Massa ever showed against Alonso in their 4 years together. I was expecting much more from him. And the "car does not suit me" argument is laughable. The pairing many were expecting between the best two drivers of their generation was very disappointing after all. And before that, he has shown some ""switch off" moments quite weird like 2008, first half of 2009, seconf half of 2013...

Edited by Cesc, 23 April 2015 - 09:37.

[The Kanisteri]

Lewis Hamilton

Sebastian Vettel

Kimi Räikkönen

......

Max Verstappen

......

Pastor Maldonado

......

Fernando Alonso

[kimster89]

How does Raikkonen make the list above Ricciardo?

I'd say Hamilton and Alonso based on a high level of performance over a number of years. Ricciardo hasn't proved himself over such a period, but is arguably in the same league. Vettel needs to rebuild his reputation after last year. Raikkonen - not a consideration for me since he joined Ferrari the first time. One race finishing ahead of Vettel does not undo the damage.

Ricc had one stellar season where he beat unmotivated driver to whom the car didnt suit.  Not to mention Ricciardo didnt comprehensevly beat an average driver in JEV and they were very close. And u need a WDC as a condition to make it on that list. The only one that i was maybe unfair to left him off the list is  Jenson.

[GreenTree]

I agree with Hamilton and Alonso, but last year we saw what Alonso did to Raikkonen and what Ricciardo did to Vettel.

Did you sleep through 2014?

Maybe you slept through every other season apart from 2014 to base all your conclusions on 1 season.

Edited by GreenTree, 23 April 2015 - 09:37.

[RedBaron]

If I had a team I'd want Fernando Alonso in my car.

[Cesc]

Ricc had one stellar season where he beat unmotivated driver to whom the car didnt suit.  Not to mention Ricciardo didnt comprehensevly beat an average driver in JEV and they were very close. And u need a WDC as a condition to make it on that list. The only one that i was maybe unfair to left him off the list is  Jenson.

 

Are you suggesting that Vergne would have beaten Vettel last year as well in a similar way Ricc did?

 

And about the second bold part....why?

Edited by Cesc, 23 April 2015 - 09:42.

[maverick69]

At this point in time, in neutral environment, Hamilton would just about have the measure of Fred. Just about. And they are the two stand-out drivers for me. Two genuine greats who would stand out in any era.

[Radion]

Alonso.

Hamilton never really had an 'Alonso2012' season and I somehow doubt he could have pulled out what Alonso did back then in that Ferrari.

[Makrar]

Hamilton and Alonso for me. They are both drivers that just make stuff happen for them. I think a neutral season between them would largely come down to non driver related issues! I think Alonso is a touch better overall but its hard to say for sure since we cant really quantify how much they improved since 07. 

 

I really want to see them in the same team again! Would be amazing to watch 

Edited by Makrar, 23 April 2015 - 09:55.

[The Kanisteri]

I agree with Hamilton and Alonso, but last year we saw what Alonso did to Raikkonen and what Ricciardo did to Vettel.

 

Did you sleep through 2014?

 

Right hand scissor user tells scissor Factory designers to make product more left handy for him though he is right hander. Fellow right hand scissor user teams up with the first one and he has to use left hand scissors for his cutting also. Both will make reasonable crap cutting, new guy even worse. New guy even whines he wants right hand scissors for his cutting style. It takes some time though, says scissor Factory. Due bad cutting quality, The Factory will launch employee co-operation negotiations. First scissor user gets sacked, though he lets understood he changed workplace for new challenges. Some of Factory workers are fired due bad decisions following ex-scissor users wishes. New guy eventually gets right hand scissors to use and his new workmate also. They both are doing good job with their right hand scissors now.

 

That's what pretty much happened at Ferrari.

Edited by The Kanisteri, 23 April 2015 - 09:51.

[PlatenGlass]

1 season does not undo 9 seasons of brilliance as well. 2014 doesn't hold equal weight against 01, 03, 05, 07, 12 & 13 for a drivers career.

I was impressed with Raikkonen up until 2006. But even though he won the title in 2007, I didn't think it was a particularly brilliant year from him. He wasn't much better from Massa, and it was the start of the whole "Raikkonen isn't that brilliant at qualifying but he's a great racing driver" excuse. In 2012/2013, he benefited greatly from the inconsistency of Grosjean. The Lotus was a very good car and I think some other drivers would have won more with it than he did.

[kimster89]

Hamilton and Alonso for me. They are both drivers that just make stuff happen for them. I think a neutral season between them would largely come down to non driver related issues! I think Alonso is a touch better overall but its hard to say for sure since we cant really quanity how much they improved since 07. 

 

I really want to see them in the same team again! Would be amazing to watch 

Agree. Id pay a good money to see Ham and Alo in the same team again. Cmon Bernie make your magic to kick Rosberg out merc in bring in Alo.

[Gyno]

Amazing that Vettel and Kimi  gets any votes.

Both needs cars that are perfect for their sensitive style or else they are playing in the midfield while their team mates are figthing for podiums.

That is not a sign of a great driver.

A great driver are one that takes any car he is given and out drives it and takes it places it doesn't deserv to be.

Like Alonso.

[YoungGun]

Vettel's 4 WDC's makes him the best on the grid.

[bazil]

I agree with Hamilton and Alonso, but last year we saw what Alonso did to Raikkonen and what Ricciardo did to Vettel.

 

Did you sleep through 2014?

 

Ricciardo vs Vettel was far more damaging for Vettel than Alonso vs Raikkonen.

 

Ricciardo came to the team and beat Vettel who had just won 4 titles in a row.  Raikkonen came to a team entirely focused and built around Alonso - there was very little Raikkonen could have done (given what seems to be his sensitivity to a car's characteristics, especially apparent in qualifying, single lap pace) to have an edge over Alonso; he would never have been able to get the team to make the significant raft of changes that would suit him.  The situation was also often exacerbated by the fact that Raikkonen very rarely had clean Friday/Saturday practice sessions.  Furthermore, if we look closer than simply points/results; race day lap times actually tell a very different story - Raikkonen almost always matched or beat Alonso after the initial laps of a stint.  The characteristics of 2014 were quite similar to 2008 - poor qualifying and then the first handful of laps of each race stint being quite average, but then began to set pace; this was a very consistent feature of his 2008 season, and we saw it again in 2014.

 

While his lack of ability to make the car work for him in qualifying and initial race laps is clearly a fault of his, it is something that explains why he was unable to unlock his true pace during the crucial moments of a Grand Prix weekend.

[redraven9]

Top drivers in detail:

 

Kimi: great when the car suits him, even incredible, but is overshadowed in a bad car (and has tremendous bad luck)

Great when charging through the field, and picking strategies.

 

Vettel: Exceptional in the best car, but mistake prone in weaker cars, and when the pressure is on. Really good in qualifying.

 

Lewis: Great all around, probably the fastest man on the grid, but tends to do mistakes on pressure (last year)

Really great overtaker.

 

Fernando: All around package (race-craft, opportunity, speed, mistake-free, starts) but marred by underperforming car all the time

 

Button: Similar to Fernando, but often struggles with the car (bad setup)

[Redback]

Maybe you slept through every other season apart from 2014 to base all your conclusions on 1 season.

The two drivers in question actually had some genuine competition in 2014, - and they were found wanting, - desperately so!

 

A truly great driver doesn't drop the ball as appallingly as Raikkonen did last year.

 

Vettel, I'm prepared to grant some leeway to as he needed to "relearn" his technique after the EBD era, but Raikkonen had no such excuse.  He was woeful!

 

I've seen all the pathetic excuses, - "Kimi didn't like the front-end, Kimi didn't like the back-end, Kimi had his hair parted the wrong way, Kimi doesn't do well when the wind is from the south", etc, etc.

 

One half-reasonable result on an optimal strategy and the fanbois conveniently forget how he was so comprehensively exposed as an also-ran...

[aramos]

Why would you include Sebastian Vettel, but not Daniel Ricciardo, a driver who dominated him?

 

Why is Kimi Raikkonen even on the list?

[aramos]

My heart wants to vote Hamilton, but my head voted Alonso. Its been a while since we've seen him in a winning car but I still think he's got it.

[bazil]

Amazing that Vettel and Kimi  gets any votes.

Both needs cars that are perfect for their sensitive style or else they are playing in the midfield while their team mates are figthing for podiums.

That is not a sign of a great driver.

A great driver are one that takes any car he is given and out drives it and takes it places it doesn't deserv to be.

Like Alonso.

 

I can't really argue with that.  It's frustrating as hell to see Kimi unable to find a solution to a problem he has carried for many years that is fundamentally costing him huge points hauls!

 

But then Alonso's 2007 suggests that, at least at the time, this idea that "Alonso would be doing much better" is a bit of a far fetched suggestion - that was a championship capable car, but he made so many errors and he was off the pace quite a few times where Hamilton was out at the front.  Bahrain was pretty embarrassing for him.

[kimster89]

Why would you include Sebastian Vettel, but not Daniel Ricciardo, a driver who dominated him?

 

Why is Kimi Raikkonen even on the list?

The drivers who are on the list are there because I putted them there and because this is MY thread. If you dont like it open another thread and put yours selection on the poll list.

[Seanspeed]

I question anybody's agenda who doesn't vote for either Alonso or Lewis, honestly. Vettel, I can *maybe* forgive, but I still don't think if you owned a team, you'd honestly pick him over Lewis or Alonso if you had the choice. Kimi, well, some people can never let the myth go obviously.

[The Kanisteri]

well, some people can never let the myth go obviously.

Same stands for Fernando Alonso.

[Redback]

Right hand scissor user tells scissor Factory designers to make product more left handy for him though he is right hander. Fellow right hand scissor user teams up with the first one and he has to use left hand scissors for his cutting also. Both will make reasonable crap cutting, new guy even worse. New guy even whines he wants right hand scissors for his cutting style. It takes some time though, says scissor Factory. Due bad cutting quality, The Factory will launch employee co-operation negotiations. First scissor user gets sacked, though he lets understood he changed workplace for new challenges. Some of Factory workers are fired due bad decisions following ex-scissor users wishes. New guy eventually gets right hand scissors to use and his new workmate also. They both are doing good job with their right hand scissors now.

 

That's what pretty much happened at Ferrari.

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses...

 

None of it holds water when your team-mate scores 3 times as many points as you and out-qualifies you 16-3.

[Seanspeed]

Same stands for Fernando Alonso.

He'll go down as one of the greats, unquestionably. Well, questioned by some bitter people, but hey, like I said 'those without agendas'.

[The Kanisteri]

Räikkönen was bad in 2014 and so was Alonso. But developing direction they had it's all fault of Alonso.

[Jon83]

I question anybody's agenda who doesn't vote for either Alonso or Lewis, honestly. Vettel, I can *maybe* forgive, but I still don't think if you owned a team, you'd honestly pick him over Lewis or Alonso if you had the choice. Kimi, well, some people can never let the myth go obviously.

 

People are entitled to a different opinion to yours. 

 

 

In this form, I don't think anybody would beat Hamilton. 

[bazil]

I question anybody's agenda who doesn't vote for either Alonso or Lewis, honestly. Vettel, I can *maybe* forgive, but I still don't think if you owned a team, you'd honestly pick him over Lewis or Alonso if you had the choice. Kimi, well, some people can never let the myth go obviously.

 

The problem is, the one time Alonso raced in a competitive team where he wasn't clear number one, he didn't really fair *greatly*; he didn't trounce the opposition as many think he could do these days with a competitive car.  If you made a list of points earned through others' misfortunes - he'd undoubtedly top the list.

[bazil]

Räikkönen was bad in 2014 and so was Alonso. But developing direction they had it's all fault of Alonso.

 

"Fault" of Alonso?  The fault of him being able to influence how a car is developed?  I think that's a good quality, whichever way you look at it (excluding "was it the right direction?")

[kosmos]

Räikkönen was bad in 2014 and so was Alonso. But developing direction they had it's all fault of Alonso.

 

 

How was the development direction of the Ferrari engine by Alonso?. You are bitter and can't be objective with Alonso, no need to hide it.

Edited by kosmos, 23 April 2015 - 10:24.