85 replies to this topic

[mclarensmps]

Maldonado is a Grand Prix winner, his race-craft is wanting and questionable but he did have his day of days in Spain, without looking how many times have he crashed out of a race? Then look it up and see how relatively few it actually is. He is not my cup of tea, but a championship wining driver, winning races at the highest level. Ultimate talent much better than a lot of other F1 drivers through history.

 

 

I so badly want to spin this! . The state of F1 is such that a 17 year old is driving, and even Pastor Maldonado can win a race.

 

*puts on his flamecoat*

[Dan333SP]

Q: What did Pastor say to his team principal after the presentation of this season's new car?

 

A:

I so badly want to spin this!

[KWSN - DSM]

Retirement % is affected by car reliability, and Maldonado has raced in an era of unprecedented reliability.  So not really a fair comparison if you're trying to work out how often they bin it.

 

I actually looked at the number of retirements were due to 'accident', I found 9.

 

[KWSN - DSM]

I so badly want to spin this! . The state of F1 is such that a 17 year old is driving, and even Pastor Maldonado can win a race.

 

*puts on his flamecoat*

 

Plus ça Change, Plus C'est La Même Chose... F1 is what F1 have always been, only different.

 

[Atreiu]

Neither of which being Alesis fault....

 

 

 

 

All generations have their guys with one win and an incredible and near unbelievable collection of crashes and incidents.

[ionutf1fan]

[Dan333SP]

[sopa]

 

 

All generations have their guys with one win and an incredible and near unbelievable collection of crashes and incidents.

 

Apart from the fact of achieving one win Maldonado and Alesi are not comparable. Alesi was regularly in high positions and collected so many podiums I have lost count. Plus on many occasions he was in a race-winning position, but let down by the car. He was hired by Ferrari and Benetton, the front-running teams. And Williams was interested in him. He was among top 3 or top5 drivers on the grid for a while. And awesome in the wet.

 

Yeah, he was somewhat erratic and made some stupid mistakes. But not to the extent of Maldonado, plus he wasn't malicious, and his overall level was completely different.

[jcbc3]

Nobody EVER made a jump start like Alesi:
 
http://www.bing.com/...4F8760C368892B8

[HoldenRT]

Just goes to show that no matter what the subject is, there is always a positive spin you can put on anything.

[PayasYouRace]

Apart from the fact of achieving one win Maldonado and Alesi are not comparable. Alesi was regularly in high positions and collected so many podiums I have lost count. Plus on many occasions he was in a race-winning position, but let down by the car. He was hired by Ferrari and Benetton, the front-running teams. And Williams was interested in him. He was among top 3 or top5 drivers on the grid for a while. And awesome in the wet.

 

Yeah, he was somewhat erratic and made some stupid mistakes. But not to the extent of Maldonado, plus he wasn't malicious, and his overall level was completely different.

 

In addition, while Alesi was picked up by Benetton to be Schumacher's replacement (and was a championship favourite going into 1996), I really cannot imagine Pastor being chosen to replace, say, Vettel at Red Bull.

 

It should also be noted that Alesi outscored Gerhard Berger every year they were team mates except for one (1994).

[HeidfeldsBeard]

Meanwhile, Pastor Maldonado drops by Enstone to pick up his payslip and has a quick browse on the Autosport forum.

 

 

 

[Boing 2]

Nobody EVER made a jump start like Alesi:
 
http://www.bing.com/...4F8760C368892B8

 

 

OK, that's pretty funny, however, Alesi did make some stonking starts in his career.

 

 

 

 

Just to put that into perspective, that's Prost, Senna and Hakinnen ahead of him and  Schumacher beside him. 16 titles, all blown away by turn one.....  

Edited by Boing 2, 25 April 2015 - 12:46.

[Boing 2]

In addition, while Alesi was picked up by Benetton to be Schumacher's replacement (and was a championship favourite going into 1996), I really cannot imagine Pastor being chosen to replace, say, Vettel at Red Bull.

 

It should also be noted that Alesi outscored Gerhard Berger every year they were team mates except for one (1994).

 

 

At the risk of turning this into an Alesi thread, if it wasn't for horrendous reliability in 95 he would have been a title contender. 

 

Also.........Pheonix.

[PayasYouRace]

Meanwhile, Pastor Maldonado drops by Enstone to drop off their payslip and has a quick browse on the Autosport forum.

 

 

 

FIFY

[ANF]

 

 

All generations have their guys with one win and an incredible and near unbelievable collection of crashes and incidents.

Always getting in other people's way.

[Boing 2]

how the hell do you embed vids here? youtubes embed code never works for me.

[ANF]

how the hell do you embed vids here? youtubes embed code never works for me.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whatever[/youtube]

It used to be that you could just paste the shortened share link from Youtube, but that changed some weeks ago.

Edited by ANF, 25 April 2015 - 12:13.

[Boing 2]

Excellent, cheers!

[xmoonrakerx]

Hopeless!

 

to be fair it was the mclarens fault for stopping there, so coulthards fault...the maldonado of the past

Edited by xmoonrakerx, 25 April 2015 - 13:45.

[thiscocks]

Always getting in other people's way.

Do you mean Diniz?

[HoldenRT]

He's such a skilled driver.  Everytime he steps into the car, you can't help but be awed by his awesomeness.

[Kristian]

He's such a skilled driver.  Everytime he steps into the car, you can't help but be awed by his awesomeness.

 

You're wrong. 

 

 

 

 

It's awesomnity ;)

[Guizotia]

When this thread started it said "Crashnator" in the title instead of Maldonado.  Is that right?

 

It should have been Crashnado as in Sharknado.  The beauty is that the end of his name really is nado.

[Nemo1965]

I would like to add something to the discussion. Yes, Maldonado drove brilliantly in Spain 2012, Alesi drove brilliantly in Phoenix 1990... One could argue that they showed their top-level there... or one could argue that the car in that race was so good to race, so easy on the driver, it was less difficult than other tracks, other days to keep it between the white lines.

 

Alesi had a spectacular debut in 1989 with Tyrrel at Paul Ricard. It was an underpowered car but with very sleek aerodynamics, and perhaps it was easy to drive, or perhaps it just fitted Alesi's style of driving. Clare Williams has stated (I believe on record) that Maldenado and Senna did not get the maximum out of the car in 2012. Perhaps that Williams was also very good to drive. And the Willams of 2013 was obviously much, much worse. Still: everytime a white and blue car left the track, 9/10 it was Maldenado. At the current Grand Prix, if a black car flies off the handle, you know: it is very likely Maldenado.

 

So we can munch on and on about that one win. But in the end: the number of crashes of any driver should always be compared with the team-mate. And in that comparison Pastor during his whole F1 career Pastor is  just not presenting a good case for his talent. Just like Alesi vs Prost and Berger.

[johnmhinds]

Always getting in other people's way.

 

But Diniz was the one that drifted into him while he was trying to make a pass?

 

That's the funny thing about videos, we can see what is going on in them...

Edited by johnmhinds, 27 April 2015 - 18:53.

[sopa]

I wonder, what is with this Alesi bashing in this thread. What counts, is overall performance. Alesi beat many of his team-mates, be it Berger or Herbert in 1998. 

 

It reminds me of Jackie Stewart telling to Ayrton Senna that "he had had more crashes than any other champion in the last few years." Does it mean Senna was a bad driver? Surely not. Same thing with Alesi. He may have had a crash or two more than some of his rivals, but he was still very good. Not comparable to Maldonado, who is in the bottom five certainly in terms of overall talent in the current F1 field.

 

I feel people are taking some things out of context in relation to Alesi. It is nowhere a carbon copy comparison to Maldonado. Almost insulting to such a quality driver. Almost like saying - but Michael Schumacher and, say, Patrick Friesacher had the same amount of spins in 2005, what does that mean? Not much.

[SealTheDiffuser]

I wonder, what is with this Alesi bashing in this thread. What counts, is overall performance. Alesi beat many of his team-mates, be it Berger or Herbert in 1998. 

 

It reminds me of Jackie Stewart telling to Ayrton Senna that "he had had more crashes than any other champion in the last few years." Does it mean Senna was a bad driver? Surely not. Same thing with Alesi. He may have had a crash or two more than some of his rivals, but he was still very good. Not comparable to Maldonado, who is in the bottom five certainly in terms of overall talent in the current F1 field.

 

I feel people are taking some things out of context in relation to Alesi. It is nowhere a carbon copy comparison to Maldonado. Almost insulting to such a quality driver. Almost like saying - but Michael Schumacher and, say, Patrick Friesacher had the same amount of spins in 2005, what does that mean? Not much.

 

Old Alesi fan here (me), MAL is better (faster).

 

and hurt so much?

 

who sit's in the glasshouse... dshouldN#t throw stones...

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 27 April 2015 - 19:03.

[johnmhinds]

Pretty sure the people who brought up Alesi weren't trying to put Alesi down, but instead trying to say that Maldonado is as good as Alesi was.

 

Which isn't even close to being true, other than his retirements (which were mostly mechanical issues) Alesi only finished a race outside the top 10 4 times in his first decade in the sport and only had 12 non top 10 finishes in his entire F1 career.

Edited by johnmhinds, 27 April 2015 - 19:07.

[jestaudio]

I actually agree, Maldanados balls are in fact so big he cant see cars, yellow flags, Marshalls etc due to his huge balls acting as a visual impairment

[Nemo1965]

I wonder, what is with this Alesi bashing in this thread. What counts, is overall performance. Alesi beat many of his team-mates, be it Berger or Herbert in 1998. 

 

It reminds me of Jackie Stewart telling to Ayrton Senna that "he had had more crashes than any other champion in the last few years." Does it mean Senna was a bad driver? Surely not. Same thing with Alesi. He may have had a crash or two more than some of his rivals, but he was still very good. Not comparable to Maldonado, who is in the bottom five certainly in terms of overall talent in the current F1 field.

 

I feel people are taking some things out of context in relation to Alesi. It is nowhere a carbon copy comparison to Maldonado. Almost insulting to such a quality driver. Almost like saying - but Michael Schumacher and, say, Patrick Friesacher had the same amount of spins in 2005, what does that mean? Not much.

 

I am not bashing Alesi - at all. And I am not comparing Maldonado to Alesi - that would be unfair, because Alesi was way, way, way better than Maldonado, IMHO. But... some drivers arrive with a bang at the scene (like Alesi), and never deliver on he early promise... or what seems like an early promise. Alesi came into F1 like a shooting star. His debut in 1989, scoring points on his first GP, when just the first six finishers got points. His second place in Phoenix in 1990, with that terrific fight with Senna. Surely here was a new star... but surely, slowly, during his career his blots on the page slowly covered the shiny parts... he still comes out way, way better than Maldonado... but still: unfulfilled promise in my eyes. And of course there are drivers who have really, really bad luck... look at Chris Amon. But though it will hurt some of Alesi's fans: his lack of achievements have to attributed to himself also.

 

Let us see Maldonado's career in that light. He came into F1, most perceived him as a pure paydriver... and he scored that very authoritative win. Well, he changed most people's perception about him. Perhaps he was a talent after all. Then, after that win he has really been the worst F1 driver in my book. Not only crashing a lot, but also always blaming others for those crashes.

 

He showed promise, now he shows menace. He has one year to show more, but I fear he won't.

Edited by Nemo1965, 27 April 2015 - 19:15.

[sopa]

Fair enough, Nemo.

 

Why Alesi was hyped up as a future star in 1989-1990... I think there are two reasons.

 

Firstly, his overall performance wasn't analyzed properly. Yeah, he had some impressive drives, and got two podiums in 1990 in Tyrrell. But he didn't add much to this point-score in other races. So he still had some inconsistency.

 

Anther issue was that F1 hadn't seen a highly promising rookie for a while. Aroun 1989-1990 the top drivers on the grid had been around for a while - Senna, Prost, Mansell, Patrese, Berger all had made their debut in 1984 or earlier. So there was a vacuum in up-and-coming talent. And of course any rookie, who impressed, is immediately stunning. F1 fans didn't know of Schumacher or Hakkinen yet, who would emerge just a year later.

 

Some thing happened to Button in 2000. He was hyped to sky heights, because no impressive rookie had entered in 1998-99, so in this context Button looked great. If you enter after a lean period of talents entering F1, you look comparatively impressive. Because, who is supposed to take over once the current greats finish their careers? In 1990 you'd think - Prost, Mansell, Patrese, Boutsen are already all over 35 years old. They will stop soon. Who will take over? And of course your first answer based on 1990 evidence would have been Alesi, because at that MOMENT there was no-one else there! 

[Dan333SP]

Fair enough, Nemo.

 

Why Alesi was hyped up as a future star in 1989-1990... I think there are two reasons.

 

Firstly, his overall performance wasn't analyzed properly. Yeah, he had some impressive drives, and got two podiums in 1990 in Tyrrell. But he didn't add much to this point-score in other races. So he still had some inconsistency.

 

Anther issue was that F1 hadn't seen a highly promising rookie for a while. Aroun 1989-1990 the top drivers on the grid had been around for a while - Senna, Prost, Mansell, Patrese, Berger all had made their debut in 1984 or earlier. So there was a vacuum in up-and-coming talent. And of course any rookie, who impressed, is immediately stunning. F1 fans didn't know of Schumacher or Hakkinen yet, who would emerge just a year later.

 

Some thing happened to Button in 2000. He was hyped to sky heights, because no impressive rookie had entered in 1998-99, so in this context Button looked great. If you enter after a lean period of talents entering F1, you look comparatively impressive. Because, who is supposed to take over once the current greats finish their careers? In 1990 you'd think - Prost, Mansell, Patrese, Boutsen are already all over 35 years old. They will stop soon. Who will take over? And of course your first answer based on 1990 evidence would have been Alesi, because at that MOMENT there was no-one else there! 

 

I'm not saying Jean was an all time great, but imagine what could have been if he'd gone to Williams in 1991 as originally intended. Mansell may never have returned to Williams, and Jean may have been the dominant force in 1992. That certainly would change our perception of him as a driver...

[Nemo1965]

Fair enough, Nemo.

 

Why Alesi was hyped up as a future star in 1989-1990... I think there are two reasons.

 

Firstly, his overall performance wasn't analyzed properly. Yeah, he had some impressive drives, and got two podiums in 1990 in Tyrrell. But he didn't add much to this point-score in other races. So he still had some inconsistency.

 

Anther issue was that F1 hadn't seen a highly promising rookie for a while. Aroun 1989-1990 the top drivers on the grid had been around for a while - Senna, Prost, Mansell, Patrese, Berger all had made their debut in 1984 or earlier. So there was a vacuum in up-and-coming talent. And of course any rookie, who impressed, is immediately stunning. F1 fans didn't know of Schumacher or Hakkinen yet, who would emerge just a year later.

 

Some thing happened to Button in 2000. He was hyped to sky heights, because no impressive rookie had entered in 1998-99, so in this context Button looked great. If you enter after a lean period of talents entering F1, you look comparatively impressive. Because, who is supposed to take over once the current greats finish their careers? In 1990 you'd think - Prost, Mansell, Patrese, Boutsen are already all over 35 years old. They will stop soon. Who will take over? And of course your first answer based on 1990 evidence would have been Alesi, because at that MOMENT there was no-one else there! 

 

That is an interesting analysis... the same happens with drivers who perish in their trade before they can deliver on their promise. Bellof, Hoetinger, but also in a way Villeneuve and Pironi. The last two were really crashonado's at the start of their career, seems to have gotten older and wiser... and then had unnecessary crashes... (Meaning: any sage driver would not have crashed at that time, at that place where they crashed because they would have known the risk they took gave no chance of results).

[charly0418]

Poor James Hunt, his quote got butchered by a terrible driver

[Nemo1965]

Poor James Hunt, his quote got butchered by a terrible driver

 

Well, I had forgotten about that. Indeed, James was called Hunt the Shunt. His reputation (and behaviour) was even worse than that of Maldonado before he entered F1!