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Maldonado... I won't budge for Palmer


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#1 Graveltrappen

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:08

Pastor says No to seat sharing....

The team will hope surely that all his extra seat time will mean he might start to match his team mate with some points scoring!

http://m.grandprix24...ice-for-palmer/

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#2 RedBaron

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:12

Better link for non-mobile browsers: http://www.grandprix...ice-for-palmer/
 
Pastor really needs to be a team player right about now. His funding source is going to run dry and his results so far are dreadful. He needs a reason to be kept on...

#3 oetzi

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:13

Good for him. It's not like he'll get to keep any money it could save his sponsors.

#4 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:17

for some of you this guy seems pretty interesting....

 

everyday a new Maldonado thread.

 

:wave:



#5 Graveltrappen

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:19

for some of you this guy seems pretty interesting....

everyday a new Maldonado thread.

:wave:


This is my first ever thread on Mr Maldonado, and indeed my first ever post regarding him.

Just so you can update your spreadsheet on posters posting habits :-)

#6 taran

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:56

Better link for non-mobile browsers: http://www.grandprix...ice-for-palmer/
 
Pastor really needs to be a team player right about now. His funding source is going to run dry and his results so far are dreadful. He needs a reason to be kept on...

 
Why?
 
Its not as if Lotus will keep him without sponsorship. Not because of lack of results but simply because they need money and will take any driver with a pulse and funding (and the pulse is optional). So being a good little team player will not gain him anything. Better to maximise his chances in the cockpit and let Palmer find/fund his own way into F1.

#7 Jon83

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:57

The fact that it seems it will only be Grosjean who makes way in FP1 confirms once and for all that Maldonado is only there because of his money.

 

Not that it was a secret of course!



#8 RedBaron

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:03

Why?

 

Its not as if Lotus will keep him without sponsorship. Not because of lack of results but simply because they need money and will take any driver with a pulse and funding (and the pulse is optional). So being a good little team player will not gain him anything. Better to maximise his chances in the cockpit and let Palmer find/fund his own way into F1.

 

Quite true, good point. He does have to look after number 1 right now.

 

It just seems without money this guy has nothing going for him. Unless it still counts to dine out on that lonely win years ago.



#9 Cyanide

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:07

This guy needs to go. He's been a trainwreck this season. 



#10 Buttoneer

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:20

I have edited a number of posts.

There seems to be some idea that it's terribly bad to refer to 'Alonslow' or 'Crashilton' but incredibly amusing to find all sorts of different ways to say how much you hate or resent Pastor by changing his name.

It is not OK. If you start a discussion in a disrespectful tone, that's the way it continues. If you strongly object to us ruining all your fun on this, then you'll need to also accept that it is open season on your favourite drivers too, and that's not a road we wish to go down on this forum.

It's prohibited at the top of our forum rules too. We don't like it, and reasonable people don't like it either. Those who wish to be unreasonable, should find another outlet.

If you're a bit confused about anything in this post, please PM one of the team. Do not discuss it here.

#11 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:22

The fact that it seems it will only be Grosjean who makes way in FP1 confirms once and for all that Maldonado is only there because of his money.

 

Not that it was a secret of course!

 

no, it only says he pays the money (to keep the team alive).

GRO lost backers (I think he doesnt bring any $ anymore),

so it's clear case tha MAL has the $ right to drive on Fridays

it's not unfair..

and he hopefully will bring in some points in BCN (the automatic engine shut-down in Bahrain was just bad luck inmo, bad programmed system imo)


Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 24 April 2015 - 10:23.


#12 Jon83

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 10:30

no, it only says he pays the money (to keep the team alive).

GRO lost backers (I think he doesnt bring any $ anymore),

so it's clear case tha MAL has the $ right to drive on Fridays

it's not unfair..

and he hopefully will bring in some points in BCN (the automatic engine shut-down in Bahrain was just bad luck inmo, bad programmed system imo)

 

Its the same thing. 

 

Since arriving in 2011, he's had a handful of decent performances. I don't think that can be disputed. He seems seldom able to manage a full weekend without making a mistake, which usually involves a broken front wing.

 

There are far better drivers not in F1, who could probably bring some decent money with them. 



#13 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:00

Its the same thing. 

 

Since arriving in 2011, he's had a handful of decent performances. I don't think that can be disputed. He seems seldom able to manage a full weekend without making a mistake, which usually involves a broken front wing.

 

There are far better drivers not in F1, who could probably bring some decent money with them. 

 

no, show them (and decent money is 10Mio Plus nowaday),

 

MAL is (raw speed) as good as GRO/PER/HUL and brings 40 Mio $

his race pace usually is better than GRO, also was better than BOT mostly....

 

But people hate him, for keeping Lotus afloat... get real! (and then say they are equally $ equipped Hamiltons out there)



#14 itsgreen84

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:01

Well he has every right to, if that is in his contract...



#15 hamilton10000

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:11

I am by no means a Maldonado hater but I would just like to point out that he has only managed 8 points finishes in 81 races and he has also retired from 22 of those races (he was also classifed in 3 further races that he didn't finish so kinda 25). Surely Lotus should think about putting Palmer in the car at some point soon because Pastor is getting no points which is obviously costing the team so much money and Palmer has some money to bring to the team as well.


Edited by hamilton10000, 24 April 2015 - 11:12.


#16 thiscocks

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:30

The fact that it seems it will only be Grosjean who makes way in FP1 confirms once and for all that Maldonado is only there because of his money.

 

Not that it was a secret of course!

And that hes a race winner.

 

Palmer is over rated anyway



#17 Gareth

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:41

no, show them (and decent money is 10Mio Plus nowaday),

 

MAL is (raw speed) as good as GRO/PER/HUL and brings 40 Mio $

his race pace usually is better than GRO, also was better than BOT mostly....

 

But people hate him, for keeping Lotus afloat... get real! (and then say they are equally $ equipped Hamiltons out there)

I don't hate him for keeping Lotus afloat.

 

I dislike the fact that F1's finances are in such a state that dollars are so much more important than talent.

 

I don't enjoy watching him spoil other peoples' races at a higher frequency than virtually any other driver on the grid.

 

I dislike the fact that he never, ever, takes responsibility for incidents that are clearly his fault, because all his $ means he can just stick his fingers in his ears and say "la la la la la, not listening".

 

I find the idea that one race win renders someone immune from criticism preposterous, and the frequency with which its pushed here surprising.

 

I think he can be quick enough at times to be deserving of a race seat on merit, but his $ means he never has to learn so doesn't learn, so rarely puts that speed together with racecraft over a full weekend.

 

 

I agree with you that there's no one else out there with both his kind of $ and his talent level.  I think there are plenty of people out there with greater talent.

 

I am (begrudgingly) glad he's on the grid keeping Lotus afloat.  I'd prefer and F1 that didn't require that.

 

I think he's perfectly within his rights to not give up FP time.



#18 Baddoer

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:45

If you make another 100 threads about Maldonado he won't go anyway. Get a life.



#19 Mohican

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 11:56

The lotus is a much improved car this year, and Maldonado always goes well in Barcelona and in Monaco; could be interesting.



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#20 FerrariV12

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:01

I'm not saying Pastor is a WDC in waiting or anything like that, but are people seriously suggesting Jolyon Palmer would be an upgrade? I'd understand if for instance they hadn't ditched Ocon from their program and he was waiting in the wings, but swapping out one pay driver who took 4 years to win GP2 for another doesn't exactly seem like a worthwhile move for me.


Edited by FerrariV12, 24 April 2015 - 12:02.


#21 Mohican

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:08

In addition, it is always good to see "universally" questioned drivers perform. Nobody liked Maldonado, and then he suddenly won Barcelona 2012.

Great for him - and of course three years later it remains Williams' most recent race win.



#22 Mohican

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:09

That he is sponsored by a repugnant government is something else altogether.



#23 Tsarwash

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:15

That he is sponsored by a repugnant government is something else altogether.

And something that belongs in the Paddock Club, not here.

#24 Mohican

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:26

I think it is highly relevant, actually. When was there last such an overtly government-sponsored driver or team ? 

 

Apart from the obvious Petronas backing at Sauber/BMW/Mercedes, I can only think of the Copersucar-backed Fittipaldis, but it may be that Copersucar was not state-owned.

Although maybe Petrobras qualifies; and Banco do Brasil - spot the pattern. Come to think of it, RBS at Williams...

 

The Pemex backing for Brabham in the early 80's ? maybe a thread of its own; government/public money sponsors of F1 teams.

As opposed to the tracks, of course.



#25 Dan333SP

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:28

The lotus is a much improved car this year, and Maldonado always goes well in Barcelona and in Monaco; could be interesting.

 

I get the Barcelona thing given his win, but where does this myth of him being particularly good at Monaco come from? His best qualifying there is 8th and he's never finished a race at that circuit...

 

Edit: Unless you meant GP2, where he has a couple of wins, but I still say that doesn't mean anything in F1 terms.


Edited by Dan333SP, 24 April 2015 - 12:31.


#26 Arska

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:28

And that hes a race winner.

 

His next best result is 5th, third best is 8th. If one ever wanted to argue that the amount of wins don't determine how good a driver is, I can't think of a better example.



#27 Graveltrappen

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:46

If you make another 100 threads about Maldonado he won't go anyway. Get a life.

Noted. Id never equated posting a single topic on a formula one discussion forum, about a formula one driver with mylack of daily purpose. However you have truly enlightened me to the error of my ways, and I now look forward to discovering the meaning of life instead of frittering my life away by using 20 seconds every year posting my murmurings about Mr Maldonardo. I'm passionately looking forward to increased fulfilment in life thanks to you. I may perhaps even take up your wonderful example of criticising unknown 31 year old blokes from Scotland on the Internet, like you have demonstrated, as I know you have gained great respect from fellow posters for this and you have truly achieved something in life where I have obviously failed.

God bless you Sir. God speed in your mission to fix the internetz.

Edited by Graveltrappen, 24 April 2015 - 12:46.


#28 kraduk

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:48

Quite true, good point. He does have to look after number 1 right now.

 

It just seems without money this guy has nothing going for him. Unless it still counts to dine out on that lonely win years ago.

 

It is more than most f1 drivers get to do though



#29 Graveltrappen

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:50

I get the Barcelona thing given his win, but where does this myth of him being particularly good at Monaco come from? His best qualifying there is 8th and he's never finished a race at that circuit...

Edit: Unless you meant GP2, where he has a couple of wins, but I still say that doesn't mean anything in F1 terms.


The win clouds everything, but that season the wins were being handed out like raffle tickets at a bottle stall. Was it not 7 different winners in the first 7 races? He qualified on pole granted, but Barcelona is a traditional procession....

Interesting that these drivers with wads of dough in their pockets can force the hands of a formula one team in such a way. You'd think they'd make sure they bunged a few clauses in the contract.

#30 maverick69

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:51

The guy (IMHO) is off his head - but within his rights.

 

If they both had the same cash I'd have JP in the car all day long.

 

JP is not quite a Hamilton or  a Fred - but he'd bring in a lot more bacon to Team Enstone that PM. I'd actually bet my house on that*

 

 

 

 

*Has anyone got a tent I can borrow?


Edited by maverick69, 24 April 2015 - 12:51.


#31 Fastcake

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:54

I'm not saying Pastor is a WDC in waiting or anything like that, but are people seriously suggesting Jolyon Palmer would be an upgrade? I'd understand if for instance they hadn't ditched Ocon from their program and he was waiting in the wings, but swapping out one pay driver who took 4 years to win GP2 for another doesn't exactly seem like a worthwhile move for me.


Jolyon Palmer can actually finish a race without hitting anyone. He would most definitely be an upgrade.

#32 Baddoer

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:58

Jolyon Palmer can actually finish a race without hitting anyone. He would most definitely be an upgrade.

Then Max Chilton will be an upgrade too. 



#33 RedBaron

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 13:01

Then Max Chilton will be an upgrade too. 

 

 

He would.



#34 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 13:02

He would.

 

lol



#35 kraduk

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 13:16

then so would i just dont hold off your sunday tea until the gp has finished thats all



#36 SenorSjon

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 13:17

no, show them (and decent money is 10Mio Plus nowaday),

 

MAL is (raw speed) as good as GRO/PER/HUL and brings 40 Mio $

his race pace usually is better than GRO, also was better than BOT mostly....

 

But people hate him, for keeping Lotus afloat... get real! (and then say they are equally $ equipped Hamiltons out there)

 

Only his racepace tends to end before the race is over.

 

And that hes a race winner.

 

Palmer is over rated anyway

 

Yeah, Williams 70th birthday et al. It was his third points finish in 24 races. I feel it is a discredit to all other race winners in F1 he won that race.

 

 

But I do agree with him that he needs FP1. He needs all the time he can get to keep the car between the white lines.



#37 SpeedFanatic

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 13:36

Xenophoby in full force by the usual suspects.



#38 Dan333SP

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 13:53

Xenophoby in full force by the usual suspects.

 

ProTip: Expressing dislike for a particular driver is not necessarily indicative of a dislike for that driver's ethnicity/nationality.

 

I see that certain people are commenting on the state-backed sponsorship he brings, but I still don't see that as xenophobia. Let's just be careful before we throw terms like that around.


Edited by Dan333SP, 24 April 2015 - 13:55.


#39 Tsarwash

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 14:07

I think it is highly relevant, actually. When was there last such an overtly government-sponsored driver or team ? 
 
Apart from the obvious Petronas backing at Sauber/BMW/Mercedes, I can only think of the Copersucar-backed Fittipaldis, but it may be that Copersucar was not state-owned.
Although maybe Petrobras qualifies; and Banco do Brasil - spot the pattern. Come to think of it, RBS at Williams...
 
The Pemex backing for Brabham in the early 80's ? maybe a thread of its own; government/public money sponsors of F1 teams.
As opposed to the tracks, of course.

As soon as you start calling national governments repugnant then you are entering Paddock Club territory, IMO. Talking about Petronas's sponsorship and the fact that they are wholly state owned is motorsport related, commenting on the state of human rights or corruption in the regime is not.

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#40 RedBaron

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 14:09

Xenophobia, really? 

 

Xenophobia

Intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries.

 

 

 

I didn't see anything like that in this topic. I just see people irritated that a good race seat is filled by a pile of cash that consistently doesn't perform well.

 

I rate Marcus Ericcson higher than I do Maldondo currently.



#41 Fastcake

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 14:13

Then Max Chilton will be an upgrade too.


Palmer's better than Chilton, so it's not really a comparison. Even then though, Chilton is very good at actually finishing races, which would mean that Lotus would be getting some points for a change.

#42 hamilton10000

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 15:03

The lotus is a much improved car this year, and Maldonado always goes well in Barcelona and in Monaco; could be interesting.

Barcelona - 14, 1, 1,15

Monaco - Ret, Ret, Ret, DNS

 

Definitely goes well at these tracks  :p



#43 RedBaron

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 15:10

Barcelona - 14, 1, 1,15

Monaco - Ret, Ret, Ret, DNS

 

Definitely goes well at these tracks  :p

 

That typo just gave him 2 wins, don't give anyone double the reasons to bang on about his victory   ;)

 

Barcelona - 14, 1, 14,15



#44 MrWorldwideJr

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 15:24

Palmer's better than Chilton, so it's not really a comparison. Even then though, Chilton is very good at actually finishing races, which would mean that Lotus would be getting some points for a change.

 

Palmer being better than Chilton is extremely debateable.  If he'd moved into F1 after his 3rd season like Chilton did he would have entered F1 with an extremely similar and probably slightly less impressive record.  I really never saw anything from Palmer that indicated he was anything more than an average driver who hung around long enough to get the best seat in the series and to his credit make the most of it.

The only difference between the two is that Palmer has somehow pulled off the PR feat of convincing people he's a talented driver who deserves to be in F1 and happens to have money rather than a pay driver with no hope of getting into F1 on his own.



#45 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 15:37

Good for him. Any driver who could do it would do it 



#46 ninetyzero

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 17:08

And that hes a race winner.

 

Palmer is over rated anyway

 

Let's just take a second to remember all the good results he's had since that win....

 

 

*sound of crickets chirping*



#47 Nemo1965

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 17:09

Xenophobia, really? 

 

Xenophobia

Intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries.

 

 

 

I didn't see anything like that in this topic. I just see people irritated that a good race seat is filled by a pile of cash that consistently doesn't perform well.

 

I rate Marcus Ericcson higher than I do Maldondo currently.

 

Well, I must say I find the antipathy against Pastor strange... I dislike him too, and I tried to analyse why. I have defended paydrivers on these boards often. I've never felt an antipathy against Andrea de Cesaris, Jean Alesi, Gilles Villeneuve, Vittorio Brambilla, Mario Andretti... all drivers that for long stretches during their career did stupid things on the track.

 

If I analyse it: Pastor gets on my nerves because he never thinks he did something wrong. Even when he divebombed Guttierez in Bahrain (?) last year, it was not his fault. Then this stuff about not helping the team by conceding some time on the track... Senna was like that also, of course, but he was a divine talent. Yeah, so that is about it. Pastor has the ego of Aerton Senna and the... on track behaviour of... Pastor Maldonado.



#48 MikeV1987

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 17:31

No doubt he won't budge, he makes so may mistakes that he needs all the seat time he can possibly get.


Edited by MikeV1987, 24 April 2015 - 17:34.


#49 Mat13

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 17:46

It sounds like he thinks he will end his career at Lotus, and will do anything to make the most of it. His right, but childish.

Disclaimer: Just my very quick two pennies, off the cuff. I don't think he'll be fired, and don't know when his contract ends, just hope it's soon.

#50 MikeV1987

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 17:49

I'll be VERY surprised if he's still in F1 next season.


Edited by MikeV1987, 24 April 2015 - 17:50.