13 replies to this topic

[EvDelft]

Hi everybody...

 

I know, it's been quite a while since I have been here for the last time... Been sort of busy...

 

Any way, my F1 database is gradually growing and progressing, and now I am reaching the point of starting with the year 1960. 15 years done, 56 to go...   Anyway...

 

The year 1960 opens with the East London GP in South Africa, as it seems a loner, a race on it's own... But then, at the end of the year, there are 2 races shortly following each other: the Cape GP in Killarney on Dec 17th, followed 10 days later by another race in East London.

 

My question: is this the start of the 1961 South African championship?

[D-Type]

I find this a bit puzzling.  Chris Ellard's Long Forgotten Races has no reference to any 1960 non-Championship F1 races in South Africa.  Were they perhaps national rather than international races?

 

However, he does refer to the 1961 Springbok Championship as comprising 4 races (all with an international field):

Rand GP  9th December 1961  Jim Clark

Natal GP  17th December 1961  Jim Clark

South African GP  26th December 1961  Jim Clark

Cape GP 1st January 1962  Trevor Taylor

[Doug Nye]

In effect a Libre race - http://www.silhouet....0/1960.html#sa2

 

DCN

[EvDelft]

In effect a Libre race - http://www.silhouet....0/1960.html#sa2

 

DCN

Yeah, that is my source, too...
So, all this three races are FLibre?

[Rob29]

As far as I recall these races contained mainly F2 cars-not sure what rules ZA ran in those days? South African GP was unusual in that it was held twice in same  calendar year.Jan 1 & dec28 1960?

[Ray Bell]

Austin-Jaguar? Austin-Riley?

What strange devices were these?

It seemed to me, newly looking at international race reports in 1962, that South Africa had seriously embraced the 1.5-litre F1. A lot of cars were powered by Alfa engines that were of that capacity, there were former F2 cars and there came to be cast-off F1 cars.

While we went for what was effectively an extension of the 2.5-litre F1 in Tasman and both Australian and New Zealand racing, South African countries continued with F1 through the change to 3-litres.

We were seemingly always behind the 8-ball.

[D-Type]

I believe the South African 1.5 litre F1 was restricted to 4-cylinder cars.  I'm not sure of the years it ran for.

[zakeriath]

The 1961 championship ran from 17 Dec 1960 (Cape Grand Prix) until 30 November 1961. there were ten races in total.

The SA Drivers' Championship rules for 1959, 1960 and 1961 specified scratch races for F Libre cars. ONLY THE FIRST SIX SCRATCH PLACES COULD EARN POINTS COUNTING TOWARDS THE CHAMPIONSHIP. Points were awarded 8-6-4-3-2-1. Only a driver's best three race results counted for the championship. The 1960 calendar initially comprised of ten championship races and one non-championship race. Unfortunately three championship races were cancelled and a second non-championship race was added. The championship races were: SAGP, False Bay 100, Fairfield race, Rand Autumn Trophy, Coronation 100, Union Day Handicap, Border 100. The two non-championship races in 1960 were the Transvaal Summer Handicap and the Rand Winter Trophy.


All information given to me by Marius Matthee - Hieronymus, who is no longer on this forum

[zakeriath]

[EvDelft]

The 1961 championship ran from 17 Dec 1960 (Cape Grand Prix) until 30 November 1961. there were ten races in total.

The SA Drivers' Championship rules for 1959, 1960 and 1961 specified scratch races for F Libre cars. ONLY THE FIRST SIX SCRATCH PLACES COULD EARN POINTS COUNTING TOWARDS THE CHAMPIONSHIP. Points were awarded 8-6-4-3-2-1. Only a driver's best three race results counted for the championship. The 1960 calendar initially comprised of ten championship races and one non-championship race. Unfortunately three championship races were cancelled and a second non-championship race was added. The championship races were: SAGP, False Bay 100, Fairfield race, Rand Autumn Trophy, Coronation 100, Union Day Handicap, Border 100. The two non-championship races in 1960 were the Transvaal Summer Handicap and the Rand Winter Trophy.


All information given to me by Marius Matthee - Hieronymus, who is no longer on this forum

Zakeriath,
Thanks for your reply.
So, basically, if I want a database of F1 races, including the national championships, you are telling me to leave this 1960 / 1961 out, because actuatlly it was not F1 but FLibre..? Am I understanding well? (just double-checking...)

[zakeriath]

Yes.

Edited by zakeriath, 30 April 2015 - 14:37.

[EvDelft]

Yes.

And that counts for all 3 races in1960, I presume?

[Rob29]

Certainly only non championship F1 races in 1960 were in england-at Goodwood,Silverstone,Brands Hatch ,Snetterton & Oulton Park.F.Libre races containing F1 cars were at Cordoba & Watkins Glen ;also New Zealand & Australia I think.South Africa ran to local rules that contained no 2500cc F1 cars.maybe should be added to F2 database? 

[EvDelft]

maybe should be added to F2 database? 

I don't run an F2 database, only F1. Thanks anyway, I leave them out...