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11 year old boy dies in race accident.


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#1 Tsarwash

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 09:37

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-32688797

 

 

An 11-year-old boy from Lockerbie is in a critical condition in hospital after a stock car accident at the weekend.

Keir Millar was injured in a race at Lochgelly Raceway in Fife on Saturday.

He was taken to the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh where police said his condition was critical.

The Dumfries and Galloway youngster took part in the Ministox racing series and last year won the Ninja Kart Championship in England.

I don't know any details of what kind of car he was racing or how fast he was going, or anything in fact, but eleven seems a painfully young age to be put at this kind of risk. Of course when I was eleven I would have jumped at the chance to do something like this, but I think at that age you're just not really aware of the consequences of these things. Thoughts ?


Edited by Tsarwash, 11 May 2015 - 09:37.


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#2 Lotus53B

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 09:49

It's tragic, but all sports have an element of risk, and there are many injuries - and unfortunately fatalities - in other sports, and I really don't think that motor racing is in anyway exceptional.  He is very young, but then again, many drivers start Karts at 7-8 years old, and without them, we wouldn't have the feeds into the other racing series. 

Let's just hope he recovers.



#3 Peat

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 09:50

Kids have raced karts/minibikes from 8yrs upwards for years an years. This is unfortunate and obviously very sad, but can we not go all:

 

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#4 Charterhall

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 10:01

I used to race Ministox when I was a kid. He"ll have been driving a 1 litre car, well reenforced with roll-cage and nerf bars. It's a contact formula, in common with many short oval series in the Uk so, whilst there is no ramming, contact between cars is part of the racing and a legitimate technique, it's common to lean on other cars or nerf them to make a pass. The required strength of the cars reflects this.

Ministox is a very common route into Motorsport for those who can't afford a Karting campaign and usually leads into the Brisca or Hot Rod championships for those who keep it up.

Very sad, without knowing the details of the accident, it must've been something beyond the usual level of a Ministox shunt. I hope Keir pulls through.

Edited by Charterhall, 11 May 2015 - 10:02.


#5 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 10:33

Very sad, without knowing the details of the accident, it must've been something beyond the usual level of a Ministox shunt. I hope Keir pulls through.

Indeed. From what little I know of Ministox it strikes me as a very safe category. Possibly some sort of major safety equipment failure like a sheared seatbelt anchor? The internal and external rollcages and nerf bars are pretty comprehensive.

 

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#6 ANF

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:13

Apparently, he is in a critical condition. A lot of media outlets have wrongly reported that he was killed. You can read about the confusion here: http://www.eurosport.com/allmotorsports/11-year-old-world-champion-keir-millar-dies-after-crash_sto4723141/story.shtml

 

Update: He didn't survive. Statement by the family: http://www.bbc.com/n...otland-32688797


Edited by ANF, 11 May 2015 - 18:17.


#7 Ian G

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:59

We had a 6 year old killed in Western Australia on the W/end when a rally car hit spectators,very sad.

 

http://www.smh.com.a...510-ggy2t8.html



#8 JHSingo

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:26

It's tragic, but all sports have an element of risk, and there are many injuries - and unfortunately fatalities - in other sports, and I really don't think that motor racing is in anyway exceptional.  He is very young, but then again, many drivers start Karts at 7-8 years old, and without them, we wouldn't have the feeds into the other racing series. 

Let's just hope he recovers.

 

Indeed. I think if you put an age restriction or whatever on this kind of thing, then it would ultimately do the sport more harm than good in the long run. As unfortunate as this clearly is, all areas of motorsport need young people to be interested and getting involved.



#9 pacificquay

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:54

Apparently, he is in a critical condition. A lot of media outlets have wrongly reported that he was killed. 

 

Because the promoters of the event wrongly said on their own website and statements that he had died.



#10 Tsarwash

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:59

Indeed. I think if you put an age restriction or whatever on this kind of thing, then it would ultimately do the sport more harm than good in the long run. As unfortunate as this clearly is, all areas of motorsport need young people to be interested and getting involved.

I'm not looking to put any restrictions on anything, and I am almost wholly ignorant of the type of racing he was enjoying. When a child dies in an accident, I do think people have the right to ask questions. 



#11 DS27

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 14:45

Because the promoters of the event wrongly said on their own website and statements that he had died.

 

That's pretty shocking.

 

The accident is very sad to hear, but I would say there is a lot more risk in racing a Kart than what this kid was doing, and how many thousands of kids race karts. Investigate the accident by all means, but to say kids shouldn't be racing is many steps to far. I'm sure there has been fatalities from falling off a horse, and many kids ride - should we ban that too?



#12 wrighty

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 14:46

**post edited, please see below**


Edited by wrighty, 11 May 2015 - 17:56.


#13 jals99

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 14:47

Hope he'll recover, fingers crossed



#14 Jimisgod

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 15:38

RIP.

 

However, accidents happen in every sport or activity. So long as the racers aren't racing against adults or driving anything too powerful I can't see any increased risk from being young. Ministox sounds concerningly more powerful than a kart so I'm not sure he should have been driving that series.



#15 Tsarwash

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:03

That's pretty shocking.
 
The accident is very sad to hear, but I would say there is a lot more risk in racing a Kart than what this kid was doing, and how many thousands of kids race karts. Investigate the accident by all means, but to say kids shouldn't be racing is many steps to far. I'm sure there has been fatalities from falling off a horse, and many kids ride - should we ban that too?

Nobody here has said that children shouldn't be racing, I don't know where you got that from.

#16 wrighty

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:04

Hi,

   With apologies, there has been a further clarification on the situation from Keir's brother. Please note, this is copy>pasted from Facebook and is not written in perfect Queen's english, so please do not post replies criticising grammar, spelling or punctuation. These are the words of the boy's older brother.

 


I would like to clear the air here as the news has been sayin he is critical, he is still on the life support machine but only cause for more checks, he is not breathing himself, it the machine that is making him breath, he is gone though, there is nothing we can do for him, his injuries are far to serious, his brain has stopped, I just want to clear this up, so people do not keep askin

 

As previously mentioned this is truly heartbreaking for Keir's family and friends of course, and our thoughts are with them at this terrible time. Announcements regarding his condition have not helped, and of course speculation has led to news agencies and many people from the short oval community to try and get information before it was available and clear.

Ministox are much much safer than this incident would suggest, but as we've seen on many occasions in the past motorsport will never be totally safe and tragic incidents like this can only remind all competitors, car builders, promoters and spectators alike to be vigilant.



#17 Prost1997T

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:31

RIP.
 
However, accidents happen in every sport or activity. So long as the racers aren't racing against adults or driving anything too powerful I can't see any increased risk from being young. Ministox sounds concerningly more powerful than a kart so I'm not sure he should have been driving that series.


If power-to-weight is a problem, then you should ask for sprints and midgets to be banned...

Edited by Prost1997T, 11 May 2015 - 18:32.


#18 anneomoly

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:39

That's pretty shocking.

 

The accident is very sad to hear, but I would say there is a lot more risk in racing a Kart than what this kid was doing, and how many thousands of kids race karts. Investigate the accident by all means, but to say kids shouldn't be racing is many steps to far. I'm sure there has been fatalities from falling off a horse, and many kids ride - should we ban that too?

 

Horse sports are more dangerous than motorsports, and there are certain disciplines you either have to have balls of steel or a screw loose to compete in. At least in motorsport the kart rarely takes a dislike to its owner and kicks it in the head...

 

But hopefully in this case the specific chain of events can be worked out and something can be tweaked so that the same thing doesn't happen again.


Edited by anneomoly, 11 May 2015 - 18:40.


#19 BillyWhizz

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:40

How tragic for his family.

 

RIP wee man.



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#20 blackmme

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 18:41

This is tragic my thoughts are with the family.
Sadly the words "Motor Racing is Dangerous" eventually manifest themselves from possibility to actuality.

My son raced karts and we as a family had a great time supporting him but he did have one very close call and a lad in another kart (both were innocent victims of someone else's accident) was badly hurt (he has subsequently made a full recovery). It was one of my worst experiences bringing him up.

If there are lessons to be learned then I'm sure the authorities including the MSA will uncover them but for now let us hope the family cope with such a terrible loss as best they can.

Regards Mike

#21 Coral

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 19:52

I saw this on the Scottish news. How tragic. RIP Keir. :(



#22 pacificquay

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 20:04

Police have confirmed tonight he died at 4pm today

#23 jals99

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 20:10

rip :(



#24 redreni

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 20:25

This is absolutely terrible.

 

Of course we don't want this to happen to anybody in our sport and, like all other serious incidents, this one will need to be investigated and lessons learned. Investigating and learning from this is just as important as learning from the F1 incident in Japan last year or any other serious or fatal accident.

 

On the question of the driver's age, without wishing to be insensitive to the family who are obviously going through hell at the moment, children die in accidents all the time. They die as passengers in road cars, they are knocked over on public roads, they fall off their bicycles, they fall off walls, they die on ski slopes - all sorts. You don't ban the activity because there has been a fatal accident. Parents need to weigh up the risks of their children's activities (as I'm sure the parents did, with love and sincerity, in this case), and then if they choose motor racing, the motorsport authorities need to do all they can to minimise the risks. The residual risk, which is inherent in the activity, is accepted, and this is the painful reality that comes from that. The boy and his family were just incredibly unlucky this happened to them.



#25 huisne

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 20:46

I feel terrible for the family, but as someone has pointed out, (fatal) accidents can occur in any sports. A few weeks ago a local 9-year-old boy died during a football (soccer) match when a bigger boy accidentaly kicked his head and it got hit against a goal post. Just terrible  - very unlikely to happen, but it did happen, just as it is very unlikely nowadays for kids to die in motorsport. When I was at school, a boy from my school died in a swimming pool (aged 10 or 11). He was a competition swimmer but he got a severe cramp, nobody was watching him and he couldn't get out of the pool in time.

 

Unfortunately, this things sometimes happen, no matter how unlikely they are. The fact that there is a thread on Autosport about a 11-year-old boy's shocking death just shows the fact how rare and unexpected this kind of accident is. Just like the accident on a football field or a swimming pool. And I haven't even mentioned some actually dangerous sports like skiing. Should we ban kids from sports then? Of course not. But we should learn something from every accident, I hope they make racing safer after Keir's death.

Rest in peace Keir, and thoughts with the family. Can't imagine what they're going through right now...  :cry:



#26 Peat

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 20:54

Yikes. Dreadful.

RIP.



#27 Vitesse2

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 21:08

It's a horrible cliche, but he died doing something he loved. I hope his family can eventually take some comfort from that thought.

 

RIP Keir.



#28 Doughnut King

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 21:22

Poor kid.



#29 ANF

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 21:37

Because the promoters of the event wrongly said on their own website and statements that he had died.

Except, I guess, by the looks of it (see #16), they already knew that all hope was gone. As did the person behind the R.I.P. Facebook page.



#30 YoungGun

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 21:47

I'm not looking to put any restrictions on anything, and I am almost wholly ignorant of the type of racing he was enjoying. When a child dies in an accident, I do think people have the right to ask questions. 

 

 

Fair question. Is this a common occurrence where more regulations and safety is required?



#31 chunder27

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 22:56

To clear things up a little for the uninitiated in stock cars.

 

There are two main types of Ministox. And they are a breeding ground for contact formulae in the two large promotions that run contact racing in the UK, ORCi and Brisca.

 

The ones Keir raced are largely called ORCI Minis. They are pretty standard when it comes to shape and style, fully bumpered inside and out and designed to withstand hits and the obvious clashes that occur. ORCi Mini drivers are encouraged to get a little physical without being OTT so no deliberate fencings and follow ins, but kids will be kids and often these things can still occur, but drivers who do it are severely reprimanded. The cars are not amazingly quick, but the tracks they race on are quite wide so these things can go at a decent rate. It teaches kids how to race closely, and to use contact to spin each other and use it as a defensive and offensive weapon in short oval racing.

 

Full Brisca Ministox are pretty hardcore, the kids racing them have to stop at I think 15 but can start at 10 its 11 with ORCi and they finish at 16. Drivers who go over the top face sanction by the governing bodies and there are rules about contact with lower graders and rookies etc. But as I say they are perhaps a little more physical, but the ORCi Mini;s offer closer racing and often closer grids as a result.

 

Brisca Minis are pretty intense. The cars are wider, lower and can be tuned a fair bit without going too far away from 998 Mini engines. Again, they race on full size adult tracks with plate fence or wire and rope fencing depending on where they race. There is more emphasis here on contact, the hits can be pretty hard and big and the last couple of years have seen some pretty amazing racing, girls and boys totally equal and the girls have been doing most of the winning.  There are injuries but the officials take a keen eye. Drivers HAVE to wear in ear raceivers at all times in the meeting, so they can hear direct from race control what is going on in the race and in the pits and they wear full safety gear, harnesses, seats, helmets etc. 

 

As I say contact here is encouraged a little more than in ORCi Mini's but the cars are fairly similar, the Brisca ones allowing things like a central seat for instance.

 

The safety record is very good as it is in all properly governed short oval formulae.

 

When it comes to safety, the cars are not going that quickly and on most tracks have a lot of racing room, incidents happen, and this is simply one that has. The lad was quick a regular winner and knew what he was doing, as did his family who were no doubt there with him. Just desperately sad for the sport and all concerned.


Edited by chunder27, 11 May 2015 - 22:58.


#32 bestF1

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 00:20

Another child racer death. So sad. If this boy's parents had made different choices on his behalf he would be alive today.



#33 ClubmanGT

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 00:35

Another child racer death. So sad. If this boy's parents had made different choices on his behalf he would be alive today.

 

Did his parents weld the cage or set the safety standards or procedures for the events or medical staff that subsequently tried to save his life?

 

Parents make choices on thier kids behalf all the time because kids aren't functional adults and they can't make choices. You choose which school they go to. You choose the colour of their underwear. You try and give them a chance to take part in a sport that will make them happy. That's what good parents do, and demonising them for it is either trolling, stupid, a basic lack of class or all of the above. 



#34 bestF1

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 00:40

"... because kids aren't functional adults and they can't make choices..."

 

 

 

Seems you got my point. We arrest parents for leaving their kids in a locked car in a parking lot. But strapping them in a steel cage and letting them hurtle around a race track with others is somehow okay?


Edited by bestF1, 12 May 2015 - 00:47.


#35 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 01:31

If I were 11 again, and my parents let me drive a race car, I would be a very grateful son.  And if I grew up to be older after being 11 again and racing cars, I would be grateful that they weren't idiotically protective of me, and let me have all the fun while they had all the worrying.



#36 teejay

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 02:44

We had a 6 year old killed in Western Australia on the W/end when a rally car hit spectators,very sad.

 

http://www.smh.com.a...510-ggy2t8.html

 

I am friend with the driver of the car.

 

An utterly tragic thing to be going through for all sides.



#37 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 02:47

Seems you got my point. We arrest parents for leaving their kids in a locked car in a parking lot. But strapping them in a steel cage and letting them hurtle around a race track with others is somehow okay?

Well ALL of the current F1 drivers were racing go karts at this age.  And go karts are not slow.



#38 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:34

Unfortunately we went/are going through this with a close family friend, we live in and ride the desert. My bud's son grew up riding and from years of riding with them, this kid could literally float his 250 and 400 across the desert at warp speed. Stunning to watch, a true MX/CC talent. He was signed by Honda at 16 for their pro team for long distance enduros. In his second race with them, the Baja 1000 he was +/- 20 minutes in front of the field, at night, and had a horrible crash. Other riders found him on course so no one knows what precisely happened. He partially severed his brain stem, and will never be the same again, although he's doing surprisingly well considering. Needless to say he won't be riding again. Racing is brutally dangerous, and always will be, no matter the age.

RIP, Keir.



#39 ensign14

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 08:09

Another child racer death. So sad. If this boy's parents had made different choices on his behalf he would be alive today.

 

You cannot possibly know that.  After all they might have saved the money from racing and ended up on MH17.  We are always a hearbeat away from the other side.

 

The reports suggest that he hit the wall and spun around into facing traffic, so was hit head-on.  The other driver must be feeling terrible even though there may be nothing he could have done about it.



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#40 chunder27

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:48

Some really rather unsavoury comments from people on here who really should know better, makes you wonder what they are like in real life.

 

You can be killed doing anything these days, playing darts, football, swimming.  And blaming the parents is borderline inhumane, how on earth would you feel if they read what you had written, you callous individual. You know nothing of them or Keir. Yet you are prepared to do a "Madeline McCann" on them and say it is all their fault.

 

Some people stagger me they really do. I can only hope you were in shock when you wrote that.



#41 wrighty

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:59

Another child racer death. So sad. If this boy's parents had made different choices on his behalf he would be alive today.

 

That's nice of you to say. For what it's worth they were a racing family where father and elder brother have both raced at the same tracks in the same cars (in the case of the brother) or larger 'adult' versions thereof in the case of his father Keith, so far from shielding their child from the horrors you seem to attribute them to, he was in fact following in the footsteps of a sibling and a father whom he clearly loved and respected.

 

RIP



#42 Rinehart

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:14

Another child racer death. So sad. If this boy's parents had made different choices on his behalf he would be alive today.

My kids participate in a number of sports and hobbies that have an element of danger about them.

I love them to pieces, but I can't keep them in a box full of cotton wool incase something happens can I?

The gift of live surely includes the opportunity to live it. At least that's what I believe. 

 

RIP to the kid. 



#43 Clatter

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:35

Don't know much about these cars but would hazard a guess that they are actually a safer environment to go racing in than karting is. People here are often quick to praise the top F1 drivers who often start their racing careers at a very early age.



#44 Tsarwash

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:38

Fair question. Is this a common occurrence where more regulations and safety is required?

I'm sorry, I don't understand you.

#45 Buttoneer

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:48

I would just like to remind everyone that this is a public forum, so friends and loved ones of the child may well see the discussion. Please remember to choose your words carefully and considerately in making your points.

#46 chunder27

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:03

A common issue about these type of things is that a lot of race fans have literally no idea what short oval racing is, that it gets big crowds, that is probably on your doorstep somewhere and that it is by far the cheapest way to get racing if you have a bit of space and time.

 

These Mini's are built to last, are equipped with full roll cages as I have said and also have armour welded around the bodywork and front and rear, and also built into the underneath of the car to both protect the drivers and make the cars able to withstand a certain amount of punishment. but also to promote the use of contact to make progress, you do not have to move over though some do, you are encouraged to nudge, spin, battle.

 

For those that do no understand contact racing, it is based on a grading system similar to handicapping, meaning continued success handicaps your starting places. There isno qualifying and most races other than the very biggest titles are started in graded order with the slower guys up front and the fastest guys at the back, with nocies behind them.

 

Keir was a very good driver, won lots of races and raced a kart based formula before Mini's and owuld likely hvae gone on into a career in Brisca F2, Superstox or Saloon Stock cars if he wanted to. All these formula's broadly offer the same cocktail of close racing in similar cars with strict rules on engines, weights etc. And strict rules on contact.

 

This is NOT banger racing, neither is what Keir was racing. It is controlled, policed and the promoters and marshals are keenly aware of safety where these kids are concerned. There are probably over 200 of them racing all over the UK and this is the first incident for many years where someone has really been hurt badly.

 

The idea of Ministox is to allow kids who want to try contact racing to do so in a safer, learning environment where they can see if they can cope with it, like it. Rather than simply dropping them into the cauldron of an F2, F1 or Saloon stock car race at 16 or 17 with no experience.  It is also a very family based sport. A lot of the kids are sons or daughters of regular drivers and will be chomping at the bit to get racing as I am sure Keir was.



#47 Charterhall

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:15

A common issue about these type of things is that a lot of race fans have literally no idea what short oval racing is, that it gets big crowds, that is probably on your doorstep somewhere and that it is by far the cheapest way to get racing if you have a bit of space and time.

 

These Mini's are built to last, are equipped with full roll cages as I have said and also have armour welded around the bodywork and front and rear, and also built into the underneath of the car to both protect the drivers and make the cars able to withstand a certain amount of punishment. but also to promote the use of contact to make progress, you do not have to move over though some do, you are encouraged to nudge, spin, battle.

 

For those that do no understand contact racing, it is based on a grading system similar to handicapping, meaning continued success handicaps your starting places. There isno qualifying and most races other than the very biggest titles are started in graded order with the slower guys up front and the fastest guys at the back, with nocies behind them.

 

Keir was a very good driver, won lots of races and raced a kart based formula before Mini's and owuld likely hvae gone on into a career in Brisca F2, Superstox or Saloon Stock cars if he wanted to. All these formula's broadly offer the same cocktail of close racing in similar cars with strict rules on engines, weights etc. And strict rules on contact.

 

This is NOT banger racing, neither is what Keir was racing. It is controlled, policed and the promoters and marshals are keenly aware of safety where these kids are concerned. There are probably over 200 of them racing all over the UK and this is the first incident for many years where someone has really been hurt badly.

 

The idea of Ministox is to allow kids who want to try contact racing to do so in a safer, learning environment where they can see if they can cope with it, like it. Rather than simply dropping them into the cauldron of an F2, F1 or Saloon stock car race at 16 or 17 with no experience.  It is also a very family based sport. A lot of the kids are sons or daughters of regular drivers and will be chomping at the bit to get racing as I am sure Keir was.

 

Hear hear, spot on. 

 

I learned far more about handling a car and racing in traffic in Ministox than I learned in Formula Vee.  It's a very good learning environment, good, friendly competition, and is close knit and supportive community.  This is hugely unlucky and very tragic, blaming anyone for anything is abhorrant.  A racing accident is a racing accident, regardless of the outcome for the people involved.


Edited by Charterhall, 12 May 2015 - 12:16.


#48 Sheepmachine

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 12:58

Very sad. Thoughts go out to his family. :(
RIP keir.

#49 chunder27

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 13:20

I gather the incident was a part of the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 today, and a certain Paul Hines, a prominent F1 Stock car driver was a guest talking about the issue.

Can't think of a better representative for our form of motorsport (other than the fact he never drive Mini's).

 

A difficult time yes, but we should not be hiding. Our sport has prodiced generations of drives from Ministoc's without major incidents. And long may it continue.



#50 Kelly391

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 13:45

Well said Chunder - I was trying to think of a post to explain about ministox but you have said everything I wanted to say.

 

As Paul said on the Jeremy Vine show, the safety record is very good and thankfully these incidents are very few and far between.  I have been going to BriSCA F1's since I was a baby (40 years ago) and I wouldn't want to be doing anything else with my weekends.  I too have been taking my son along since he was a baby, we couldn't afford a ministox for him but I would have let him have a go if I could.   

 

RIP Keir - my thoughts are with your family and friends at this sad time.