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Champions since 1970 in -YOUR- words


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#251 RealRacing

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Posted 18 May 2015 - 22:43

The ones I've seen:

 

Senna: Naturally fast, one of if not the most naturally talented. Probably the best in the rain and over one lap. Apparently, sometimes took driving and racing outside the realm of sport. Very "jealous" when defending position but not that much different from others at that level. His passion clouded his judgement a couple of very important times. His untimely passing making him untouchable in the eyes of some.

 

Mansell: Courageous, spectacular when passing or pushing. Supposedly very bad luck if you believe in luck.

 

Prost: Fast and precise, analytical racer. Political. I remember there was a column in my local newspaper entitled, "Letter to the World" by Alain Prost, in which he explained what, in his view had happened after every GP. This was in the Senna era so you can imagine how interesting, if one sided, this column was. I found that to be pretentious.

 

Schumacher: Lots of natural talent, too coupled with tremendous work ethic and vision to put together the Ferrari team that rallied behind him all those dominating years. Controversial but in a similar way to Senna and other greats, meaning it comes with the territory. Gets a lot of unjustified hate.

 

Hill: Lucky to get a great car because of father and nationality but did not make the most of it.

 

Villeneuve: Also great car. Winning at Indy showed he had more than average talent then. But his performance afterwards kind of devalued the initial perception of talent level.

 

Hakkinen: Did not show IMO great speed or talent in his beginnings and some argue he had great cars to win his 2 championships. But he took it to MS and won which should count for something.

 

Alonso: Hard worker and headstrong. Not the fastest over one lap but very persistent and never gives up. Constant. Mentally weak after reaching boiling point, can't handle fast teammate very well. Controversial and vindictive. Greedy when it comes to team preference. Annoying.

 

Hamilton: Gifted, very naturally talented, especially over one lap. Very influenced by mental state outside of racing. Conceited when comparing to Senna or talking down Vettel. 

 

Raikkonen: Could be fastest when car and conditions right for him. Different level of care about F1 and winning than many of the others in this list; some would call it wasted talent. Unique, refreshing character for better or worse. The F1 outsider. 

 

Button: Similar to Hill. Otherwise, above average, below great. 

 

Vettel: Super fast, hard worker, nice guy, can be annoying. In the same wagon as HAM, ALO as regards to proving he's at the same level as the Prosts and Sennas. Gets a lot of unjustified hate as well.



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#252 travbrad

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 06:07

I'm surprised so many people still think Hamilton has a "fragile mind" and is easily influenced by outside factors.  I remember Hungary a couple years ago when everyone was saying he's in a terrible mood, it's going to be a disaster, etc.  Then he won the race in an inferior car (Vettel won the remaining 9 races that season).  Plus last year when he was behind in the championship right from the start (surely that didn't put him in a good mood) but fought back to win it.

 

I know the British press/pundits love to psychoanalyze Hamilton on a weekly basis, but I'm surprised so many people actually believe it.  Even the best drivers have some off days, but you don't need to come up with crazy reasons why.  Vettel looked very ragged in Bahrain this year, but people didn't start saying "Did his girlfriend break up with him?  Was he in a bad mood?  Did he eat the wrong breakfast?  Is he having a mental breakdown?  etc".  Because the reasonable explanation was just that he had an off day and/or the setup wasn't quite right for the race.


Edited by travbrad, 19 May 2015 - 06:08.


#253 Nemo1965

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 10:31

Niki Lauda: the riddle wrapped in an enigma

 

In my own words: Nemo1965. Part Four (and last...)

 

Any F1-fan, even the one that has started watching last week, knows who the somewhat oddly dressed (red racing-cap, colourful sweater, corduroy trousers) pot-bellied man in his sixties is, who is very regularly shown watching proceedings from the Mercedes-garage. Arguably he is shown just as often as Toto Wolff, the teamboss of Mercedes F1 and quite likely more often than Paddy Lowe, the engineer of Mercedes, and even more often than Lewis Hamilton's girlfriend of Nico Rosberg's wife... And that for someone who still bears just those scars that most people can't bear to watch in real-life: scars of third and fourth-degree burns. In the subway or train, if you would meet someone with lesser injuries than him, you would scarcely dare to look. With Lauda you can just stare right at him. You don't see the burns. You see Niki Lauda.

 

That is to say: the accidental F1-fan knows his name. 'Oy, that is Lauda.' Not that they really know him, he is too complicated character to sum up in one sentence. But if you really try to, you can make a shallow but not altogether incorrect line: 'He almost burned alive in a F1-car. Then he won another two championships.' Those who have followed F1 a little longer - say ten years -  will add: 'Dares to speak his mind.' That would also be true. Lauda himself has even said he was hired by Mercedes, as non-executive chairman, for exactly that. To FIA quarterly magazine Auto he said: 'Sometimes management is pissed off with me because I tell them what's going to happen. We had a board meeting in Stuttgart (before Spa 2014, Nemo) with all our bosses there and I said: "They will hit each other". "How can you say this?" they asked. "Because I know." And he added some other things, amongst which a typical Niki-line: 'They find it very hard to convince me of things I don't think are right.'

 

F1 cognoscenti, guys (usually) who have followed F1 longer than 20 years (we are heading into anorak territory here) prick up their ears right here. 'Things I don't think that are right...' If one has followed Andreas Nikolaus (Niki) Lauda, one knows what that means, when Herr Lauda thinks 'things are not right'. He has often been nicknamed The Rat. 'The Donkey' would also be a good one, in those circumstances when the Austrian feels things are going in the wrong direction. Then he will stop, in the middle of the path taken, plant his feet and refuse to budge an inch. And you can drag, hit and yell, he will only stare at you with his sad but determined eyes. 'No. First change what I want to. Then I'll move.'
 
There is this terrific story about the 1977 season that.... Before that, a short pre-face. We all know, even the youngsters, how, when Lauda survived his fiery accident at the Nürburgring in 1976, how he came back after just four weeks, grabbed fourth place in the Italian Grand Prix, with wounds that were still bleeding under his helmet. We don't have to tell in detail how the 1976-title fight went to the wire in Fuji, Japan. How James Hunt grabbed the title by a third place and a dramatic late-race pit-stop. How Niki Lauda had gotten out of the car, shortly after the beginning of the race, because he considered the dramatic rain too dangerous to race in.
 
Already fewer people know that James Hunt, directly interviewed after the race, admitted Lauda had been right. It had been too dangerous to race. Even fewer people know - and again, we are moving into the terrible landscape of elderly men who, eagle-eyed, write down chassis-numbers of old F1 cars at auctions and venues like Goodwood - how that decision by Lauda set up the situation where for once a driver demonstrably won the world-championship of F1 in a car that was not the best of that season, not the second best, not even the third best car of that season. And a situation where a F1 driver won the title despite the machinations against him - by his own team.
 
We are talking about 1977. The revised Ferrari 312 t2 for that season had been developed further for that season - but in totally the wrong direction. Only later it was found out that in a search for more mechanical grip, partly to keep up with the first generation of groundeffect-cars by Lotus (which principle Lauda nor Mauro Foghieri, the car-designer of Ferrari understood, nor did anyone but Lotus at that time), the geometry overloaded the tyres. The car would be good here, but would be terrible there. More often terrible, than good, by the way. The car would understeer in one corner, and oversteer in another. As the Dutch say: with this car, one could not make chocolate. Gilles Villeneuve - who replaced Lauda at Ferrari and who was not a man who had problems with wrangling bad cars to decent speeds - said later: 'I can't understand how Lauda won the championship in this car. It was terrible.'
 
Anyway, there is this practice-session. Lauda drives out of the pits. At the end of the pitstrait he notices: 'Oh Scheisse.' He creeps around the track. Foghieri waits for him, with eyes as big as saucers. 'What-a-are-you-doing-ah?' 'I am not driving this piece of ****. It under-steers like crazy.' 'But you need a time! Your team-mate sets time, he is seventh!' 'Why would I set a time that is much too bad? The car should be sorted out first.' And whatever Foghieri did, stamp his feet, threaten with dismissal, Lauda stood in the pits, hands on his hips, watching him coolly. Why would he drive in a slow, understeering car?
 
In an ideal world, one would hope that the people at Ferrari would admire and respect Lauda's honesty and straightforwardness. But this is not an ideal world, and F1 has never been an ideal world, and the Ferrari-team, it is sad to say, is the least of the ideal world within F1. Ferrari - the man, the team - resented Lauda's decision back then, in Fuji, not to race. Or rather: that he had come back to race in the 1976 season at all. The Old Man said so himself. Once, Lauda showed up in Fiorano to test. Reutemann was there. Lauda got the word that Enzo wanted him to test in Paul Ricard. 'Excuse me?' Lauda called the Old Man. 'From now on, I will take the decisions,' Ferrari told Lauda. 'Really,' Lauda said, 'and why is that?' 'Because of Monza. It was the wrong decision to return after your accident. If you would have sat out the season, we would have lost the title optically in a different way.'
 
Lauda is not someone who screams easily. But that day he did. He shrieked into the phone: 'Perhaps it is good style for an Italian, to lie in bed and lose there! Optically, excellent! But if I have to fight, then I will fight and not lie in my bed. THEN I WILL FIGHT ON THE TRACK AND TAKE MY RESPONSABILITY! AUF WIEDERSEHEN!' And then he banged the phone on the receiver. It took a while to sooth over the relationship after that, but for Lauda, the bond was broken. He took the decision there and then to leave Ferrari. A man with principles, Lauda. But he could also be political. Because the car was so terrible, because Ferrari - the man, the team - treated him with suspicion, he told Enzo Ferrari a lie in 1977: 'I will never drive for another team than Ferrari.' As Lauda said: 'That was a lie. It was unfair. But I needed to bring calm in the team, to win the world-championship. It was sugar for the emotional lions.'
 
Lauda won the 1977 F1 worldchampionship. No other driver could have managed to do that with that car. Mario Andretti, the greatest allrounder of all time, had the best car in the first Lotus ground-effect car (the 78), but he made so many mistakes he threw away the title. Jody Scheckter was driving for a new team (Wolf), could have won, but could handle bad results much less than Lauda... Reutemann, Lauda's teammate, never had a chance. When Lauda was asked if he saw Reutemann as a teammate or a rival, he said, deadly: 'Neither.' James Hunt drove excellently, and Lauda afterwards said he could not say why Hunt had not won the title again. The only man who could have scraped results like Lauda had, was Emerson Fittipaldi, who drove for the weak Copersugar F1 team. But it is very questionable if Emerson could have handled the psychological pressure Lauda had been under. Especially when Lauda had told Ferrari he would leave the team after the season, the atmosphere at Ferrari became almost unbearable. Once Lauda described the things that Ferrari did, as thus: 'It is as if someone whispers to you, just before you start a F1-race: your favourite dog is dead.'
 
The 1977 season ended in a typical, Lauda-kind of way. When he had secured the championship, he sent a telegram to Ferrari. 'I am sick, I am not able to drive the last race of the season. Thank you for the opportunity to win two titles with Ferrari. Arrivederci. Niki Lauda.'
 
It was sort of similar to how he would end his (first F1 career). In 1979 he drove his second F1 season with Brabham. Bernie Ecclestone (yep, the same) was the owner of Brabham at the time. For months they battled about a new contract. Lauda wanted x million dollars. Ecclestone did not want to pay x million dollars. Ping. Pong. Ping. Pong. Anyone who knows Ecclestone knows trying to win a battle about money has to have more tenacity than a German general who wants to conquer Stalingrad. Bernie should have won, like he always does in money-deals. But now he lost. But when Lauda, happy about his victory, stepped into his Brabham F1 car for the first practice of the 1979 Canadian Grand Prix, he felt...nothing. He did not want to drive any more. He got out of the car and said to Bernie: 'I am quitting.' And Bernard Ecclestone, also typically, said: 'That is an important decision.' He did not try to persuade Lauda to drive on. With 'important' Bernie meant: this was the RIGHT decision.
 
Of course, everyone knows Lauda came back, in the seasons 1982-1985. He was outshone at McLaren by John Watson in the first two years, outperformed by Alain Prost in both years that they were team-mates, but still beat Prost for the 1984 title. His title-clinching drive from the midfield to 2nd place in the 1984 Portugal Grand Prix was one of the best races in his career. Probably, as he hinted, his best ever, because his car had technical problems as well.
 
After his F1-career, and outside of his F1-career he took many monumental decisions as well. Lauda took the herculean task on himself to start an airline, Lauda Air - and that in a time when in Europe private entrepreneurship were strangled by state-owned companies. He made Lauda Air a success... but many who followed his career closely, wondered: did the success prove that Lauda took the right decision the first place? Did Lauda Air make him happy? Or was this just a man trying to wrestle with a mountain, taking the challenge because it was there?
 
The same applies for his job as team-boss for the ill-fated Jaguar F1 team in 2001. He was the right man in the wrong place, and was made redundant at the end of 2003. That he tried the Jaguar F1 car around Barcelona in the vast conviction modern F1 cars could be 'driven by monkeys' and that he could drive it fast around the track as the regular drivers Eddy Irvine and Pedro de La Rosa, showed that, perhaps, Lauda's judgement had taken some rust with the years. He embarrassed himself there, though he denied that, the same way he denied his divorce of Marlene Lauda (mother of his two children) or his fathering an illegitimate child was embarrassing or painful. But of course it was.
 
It is telling that Lauda is 'non-executive'-chairman of Mercedes F1, which is kind of an oxymoron. But anyone who has followed Lauda's career knows: this was a wise thing to do, the right thing to do. Lauda is an excellent pilot, someone who can navigate dire straits by himself and for himself. But to navigate hot waters for others, to be the captain outside of the cockpit, for that Niki Lauda is just not the right man. He is there to tell the truth, to sometimes confront with nonsense when he thinks that nonsense will work (Lauda has a wicked sense of humour). As he said in the aforementioned interview with Auto: "And the drivers know that I also defend them. I'm the only one who speaks the same language - being part of them and part of the management. So we have a very good relationship. They find it very hard to convince me of things I don't think are right."
 
And so he is.
 
END OF NIKI LAUDA, IN MY OWN WORDS, BY NEMO 1965.
 
Thanks to all the posters who were so nice to compliment me, on my long ramblings. And oh, as a post-scriptum: in the four parts, I often quoted the book Protocol, by Niki Lauda and Herbert Völker. That books is called on the English market: Niki Lauda, The Ferrari Years.

Edited by Nemo1965, 20 May 2015 - 09:20.


#254 mzvztag

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 11:36

Thank you so much, Nemo! Great read.

#255 oetzi

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 15:50

Nemo, have another compliment. Thank you.

Edited by oetzi, 19 May 2015 - 15:50.


#256 Nemo1965

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 16:26

Thank you both, much appreciated. I really enjoyed writing it, with all encouragements! :up:



#257 Atreiu

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 19:27

Stoner: fastest and most talented rider I believe to have ever seen (on TV). Unfortunately, his intolerance for the modern racer's PR committed life style cut short his career. Rossi's struggles on the Ducatis put Stoner's abilities into perspective.



#258 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 20:41

My problem in trying to be objective is that I've rooted for Brits for the most part since I started following F1. This was 1970/71 [I got Sir JYS's autograph in a Geneva dept store a few days before Tyrrell 001 was unveiled to the world] but the 1st races I saw were in 71. After JYS, it was Hunt, then Mansell, Hill, Hamilton & Button, even the Brits who came close like Watson [82] & Irvine [99]. So, I didn't like drivers like Lauda winning as it meant Hunt wasn't etc....that way, I was never a fan of Senna & Prost as I obviously I wanted Mansell winning. Ditto Schumacher v Hill. In hindsight, Hill probably didn't deserve the 94 Crown if he'd won it...he'd started the season as no 2 to Senna and was only in contention for the WDC as Senna was no longer around. Hamilton in 2007 & 8 then Button in 2009. But when they were team mates at Mclaren, I preferred JB over LH.....as neither was in contention 2010 onwards, I rooted for Webber. Then it got to last year, I didn't mind who won, LH or NR, which flies in the face of my previous support for the Brits....just that JB was my favoured British driver and that if he was in NR's car, I'd be rooting for him.

I think that if Mansell had triumphed in 86 and/or 87 [he really deserved the 86 title at least], he wouldn't have hung around to claim the 92 title....

Having said all that, Ronnie Peterson was my all-time favourite driver but was never in contention for a WDC [unless Mario had had lots of reliability issues in '78, gifting his wins to Mad Ronald]....


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 19 May 2015 - 20:54.


#259 Nemo1965

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:06



My problem in trying to be objective is that I've rooted for Brits for the most part since I started following F1. This was 1970/71 [I got Sir JYS's autograph in a Geneva dept store a few days before Tyrrell 001 was unveiled to the world] but the 1st races I saw were in 71. After JYS, it was Hunt, then Mansell, Hill, Hamilton & Button, even the Brits who came close like Watson [82] & Irvine [99]. So, I didn't like drivers like Lauda winning as it meant Hunt wasn't etc....that way, I was never a fan of Senna & Prost as I obviously I wanted Mansell winning. Ditto Schumacher v Hill. In hindsight, Hill probably didn't deserve the 94 Crown if he'd won it...he'd started the season as no 2 to Senna and was only in contention for the WDC as Senna was no longer around. Hamilton in 2007 & 8 then Button in 2009. But when they were team mates at Mclaren, I preferred JB over LH.....as neither was in contention 2010 onwards, I rooted for Webber. Then it got to last year, I didn't mind who won, LH or NR, which flies in the face of my previous support for the Brits....just that JB was my favoured British driver and that if he was in NR's car, I'd be rooting for him.

I think that if Mansell had triumphed in 86 and/or 87 [he really deserved the 86 title at least], he wouldn't have hung around to claim the 92 title....

Having said all that, Ronnie Peterson was my all-time favourite driver but was never in contention for a WDC [unless Mario had had lots of reliability issues in '78, gifting his wins to Mad Ronald]....

 

Well... I thought the point of this thread was NOT to be obective... I would be very interested in a personal story from you about one of your favourites... a memory about watching Ronnie race, for example...



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#260 kingofspa

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 09:27

I would post about the drivers i saw racing since i started watching i.e. 2005

 

Schumacher:I know i have missed the vintage schumi vs mika battles though i have seen them later in highlight programs and youtube.The thing about Michael that strikes me the most is his single minded dedication...almost robotic.That combined

with his supreme talent made him untouchable in his prime i believe.I was fortunate to see the glimpses of his greatness in the 2nd half of the 2006 season remeber China 2006,the race which schumacher was supposed to be suck at beacuse of the **** bridgestone tires in the wet.

That for me was the drive of the season.

 

Alonso:Admire the driver not the person....too many political incidents spygate,crashgate,Germany 2010,breaking gearbox seal US 2012

But great driver and proabably underrated in terms of raw speed

 

Hamilton:Fast and over the years has improved on the areas which people said were deficiencies like tire usage or lack of thinking during races...

In his initial days i always had the impression that he believed too much in his own myth that he was a senna reincarnation...now he is establishing his own brand as a gangsta :lol:

 

Button:smooth,sixth sense for changing conditions and really underrated...

he took on hamilton and is a WDC...you dont do that just by fluke

 

Vettel:Very fast...in his RBR days,he reminded me of the Mclaren Kimi...What impressed me most in the early years was he seemed to always learn from his mistakes and try not to repeat them.

One off year against Riccardo doesnot make his achievements any less worthy...he still had to beat his teamate who was driving an equal car(more or less)

 

Kimi:At one point considered the fastest ever driver..has lost some of that speed but none of the racecraft.



#261 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 12:18

Well... I thought the point of this thread was NOT to be obective... I would be very interested in a personal story from you about one of your favourites... a memory about watching Ronnie race, for example...

 

I 1st heard about Ronnie from reading Autosport & Motoring News as a schoolkid in '69....this was when he was winning in his Tecno in F3. I never saw him in F3 [he'd graduated to F1 by the time I got to see F3 [in 1970]]....it was 71 when I 1st saw him race...the '71 British GP, where he finished a distant 2nd to JYS. I still have the program with his autograph from that meeting. He was an exciting on-the-limit driver.He also competed in F2 that year, took a while to start winning but once he did, was virtually unstoppable, clinching the European F2 Championship. One of the F2 races was late August at Brands....Ronnie didn't just dominate, he smashed the outright lap record, this on a current F1 circuit....I watched that race on TV [not all GPs were televised then, BBC used to show other categories as well], I remember my housemaster at school being well impressed with him :drunk:  He showed his versatility by finishing 2nd in a Lola T212 in the '71 Martini International for 2 Litre Sports cars at Silverstone, having qualified behind most of the regular quick drivers in that category. His switch to the JPS Lotus team promised a lot and, as in F2, it took a while before he won. I remember the 73 British GP, spectating at Woodcote watching Ronnie oversteering through that corner.....and seeing him lead most of the re-started race only to lose the lead to Revson. After 73, Ronnie never had a WDC winning car until 78, when he played 2nd fiddle to Mario....and you know the rest. I rate Ronnie & Gilles in the same, spectacular to watch, category :drunk:   



#262 sennafan24

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 14:55

Well... I thought the point of this thread was NOT to be objective

This

 

I always cringe when people say they are "neutral".  I think we are all a tad bias, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is not taken to ridiculous lengths.



#263 milestone 11

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 15:34

And more plaudits from me Nemo. Thanks, a great read. :up:

#264 Collombin

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 15:17

( bolded above)
  Did they really prove it was a slow puncture that was the cause of the crash ,Nemo ?  I always thought it was the rear suspension suddenly collapsing at 160 MPH causing the car to be swept sideways off the track and right into a tree trunk  , that was how Graham Hill who was following and saw the accident happen described it .


Tyre failure was deemed the most likely explanation by the expert investigator, and is the most widely accepted explanation to this day (not to suggest that the tyre company was at fault - there is a strong possibility of the puncture being caused by a small item of debris on the track).

Graham Hill most definitely did not see the accident.

#265 Nemo1965

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 15:28

Tyre failure was deemed the most likely explanation by the expert investigator, and is the most widely accepted explanation to this day (not to suggest that the tyre company was at fault - there is a strong possibility of the puncture being caused by a small item of debris on the track).

Graham Hill most definitely did not see the accident.

 

Correct. However critical I am of Colin Chapman (the title 'Wayward genius' is excellent) regarding the safety of his cars (and hence, drivers), he really had the accident of Jim Clark properly investigated, by an independent expert. Graham Hill did not see the accident. I believe no other driver did see the accident. The eye-witness account of what happened was of a marshal.



#266 jimmonson

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 19:30

Tyre failure was deemed the most likely explanation by the expert investigator, and is the most widely accepted explanation to this day (not to suggest that the tyre company was at fault - there is a strong possibility of the puncture being caused by a small item of debris on the track).

Graham Hill most definitely did not see the accident.

 

Correct. However critical I am of Colin Chapman (the title 'Wayward genius' is excellent) regarding the safety of his cars (and hence, drivers), he really had the accident of Jim Clark properly investigated, by an independent expert. Graham Hill did not see the accident. I believe no other driver did see the accident. The eye-witness account of what happened was of a marshal.

 

 Thanks for that clarification EB & Nemo . The news report that I saw at the time may have been misleading then , thats where I seem to remember Graham giving an account of what had happened . Quite possibly he had quoted the Marshall's account then. 



#267 Nemo1965

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 20:16

 Thanks for that clarification EB & Nemo . The news report that I saw at the time may have been misleading then , thats where I seem to remember Graham giving an account of what had happened . Quite possibly he had quoted the Marshall's account then. 

 

Well,  Graham Hill that day (and that year) turned kind of into the leader of Lotus. As I recall, Chapman was so destroyed by the accident, he was absolutely helpless. Graham went to the accident-site, secured the debris for the investigation, I believe he even went to the morgue. All I know for sure is that Graham Hill took it onto himself to be the spokesperson for Lotus that day about the accident. Hence it was 'logical' he explained to journalists what he knew about the accident. Again, from memory: the last who saw Clark drive the car was Derek Bell. Jimmy was driving slow, apparently having a technical problem, and he waved Bell past.

 

But there are other posters who can tell that story better than I can, from heart.



#268 sopa

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 13:19

This

 

I always cringe when people say they are "neutral".  I think we are all a tad bias, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as it is not taken to ridiculous lengths.

 

Yap.

Even if you are "neutral" and have no invested emotional interest in the competition and just observe it "on the fence", any opinion you might develop, still can easily side with one or another. Even subconsciously, while being uninformed of some additional information/facts.