3938 replies to this topic

[SR388]

Let's continue the quality conversation.

Who wants it more?
Who has that look in his eye?

Who has the EDGE?

Someone answer this.


Here's the count:

Edited by SR388, 11 May 2015 - 22:04.

[Ducks]

Monaco could really turn the season in one of two ways, If Hamilton beats Rosberg on what is probably his best track he's going to beat him almost everywhere.

[SR388]

Monaco is going to be a REALLY important Grand Prix.

[viceroy1]

I don't think Monaco is pivotal regarding anything. Methinks It's too early in the season either way to use Mónaco as some sort of definitive marker for either driver.

[Rickyf1]

How will Rosberg feel about Hamilton get the big bucks deal from merc? If the figures talked about are correct?

[Newbrray]

How will Rosberg feel about Hamilton get the big bucks deal from merc? If the figures talked about are correct?

 

Same way he has felt all these years that Hamilton earned more bucks than him I guess 

[Nemo1965]

How will Rosberg feel about Hamilton get the big bucks deal from merc? If the figures talked about are correct?

 

Before anyone is pinching himself with glee because of Rosberg's jealousy: I doubt that Rosberg cares much. He doesn't even own a car, I understand. Only a Vespa. And then: you can only waterski behind one luxerious motorboat at a time...

[Ducks]

 

Ill just put this in here too for anyone unsure on the score.

[robefc]

Before anyone is pinching himself with glee because of Rosberg's jealousy: I doubt that Rosberg cares much. He doesn't even own a car, I understand. Only a Vespa. And then: you can only waterski behind one luxerious motorboat at a time...

 

It's not necessarily about the money itself but more what it signifies, if a team are paying his teammate twice/three/pick a figure times what they are paying him what message does it send him? He may not care but that's usually the issue rather than whether they need the money or not.

 

On another note, why do we have 2 open threads?

Edited by robefc, 11 May 2015 - 22:04.

[Atreiu]

Keeping it simple.

Hamilton has been better this season, all the stats show it but Rosberg finally won a race halted Hamilton's momentum. The points difference can be managed but it's not enough to make Hamilton imune to DNFs and bad weekends. Vettel and Raikkonen might be factors in some races, as they were in Sepang, Bahrain and Barcelona, but they have no realistic title chance unless there is huge shift in form between Mercedes and Ferrari.

 

I don't believe Rosberg had slumped at all this year, it was a matter of Hamilton having a very strong and consistent run with no brainfades or mechanical issues.

 

The issue now is to see if Hamilton can avoid another mid season slump (as in 2014) and how much more the Ferraris will intefere.

[sennafan24]

If we go on momentum and previous form, Monaco should be a breeze for Nico,

 

Despite the ending to qualifying last year, Nico has been slick in Q3 sessions at Monaco. Last year, he put in the faster banker lap, and the year before he was quicker than Lewis during both runs in Q3.  However, as we know, F1 does not always work that way. Using the same logic, Canada 2014 qualifying should have been a breeze for Lewis. Instead, Nico sprung a surprise. You only have to at the previous weekend to see that performance can differ year on year. Lewis took pole by a few tenths at Spain 2014, whereas Nico returned the favour at Spain this year.

 

Monaco is perfect for Nico. Despite a marked improvement at overtaking at Bahrain, I am still not convinced that Nico can fend off Lewis. whilst the latter is directly behind him. However, my opinion will not be tested for a while. At Monaco, there is little scope for Lewis to attack if Nico gets pole. It's likely that the pole-sitter will obtain track position after the 1st corner, and the race will finish in grid formation.

 

For the first time since mid-2014, the outlook for Nico is improving. Whether that will be temporary remains to be seen.

Edited by sennafan24, 11 May 2015 - 22:36.

[TomNokoe]

eh I think you're all a tad premature with the caution. Monaco, excuse the pun, is a flip of the coin between this pair.

The qualifying positions very well should be the time difference come the chequered, as it is all that matters.

Less than a tenth in both years, in Q3 sessions that weren't exactly smooth. 2013 was damp to dry, and the run plan was unorthodox, and 2014 only contained one and a third of runs.

Coin toss.

All in on #44!

[kernel]

If we go on momentum and previous form, Monaco should be a breeze for Nico,

Despite the ending to qualifying last year, Nico has been slick in Q3 sessions at Monaco. Last year, he put in the faster banker lap, and the year before he was quicker than Lewis during both runs in Q3. However, as we know, F1 does not always work that way. Using the same logic, Canada 2014 qualifying should have been a breeze for Lewis. Instead, Nico sprung a surprise. You only have to at the previous weekend to see that performance can differ year on year. Lewis took pole by a few tenths at Spain 2014, whereas Nico returned the favour at Spain this year.

Monaco is perfect for Nico. Despite a marked improvement at overtaking at Bahrain, I am still not convinced that Nico can fend off Lewis. whilst the latter is directly behind him. However, my opinion will not be tested for a while. At Monaco, there is little scope for Lewis to attack if Nico gets pole. It's likely that the pole-sitter will obtain track position after the 1st corner, and the race will finish in grid formation.

For the first time since mid-2014, the outlook for Nico is improving. Whether that will be temporary remains to be seen.

Lewis should have had pole last year but we all know what happened.

As for 2013, Lewis was fastest in the second and third sectors but he missed out on pole position because he missed his breaking point at the first corner.

It's not really an utter domination by Rosberg. Tight margins every year they have been teammates.

[robefc]

A rather different way of looking at Lewis's slow stop in Barcelona (courtesy of Mark Hughes)

The stop itself was quick but the mechanic on the left-rear noticed that he had cross-threaded the wheel-nut. Remaining calm, he removed and refitted it – but it had cost a vital extra couple of seconds. Had he not spotted his error, the driven wheel would have likely bounced off down the pitlane Mark Webber-style and Hamilton would have been an instant retirement.

http://www.motorspor...nish-gp-report/

Edited by robefc, 11 May 2015 - 23:06.

[TomNokoe]

A rather different way of looking at Lewis's slow stop in Barcelona (courtesy of Mark Hughes)

The stop itself was quick but the mechanic on the left-rear noticed that he had cross-threaded the wheel-nut. Remaining calm, he removed and refitted it – but it had cost a vital extra couple of seconds. Had he not spotted his error, the driven wheel would have likely bounced off down the pitlane Mark Webber-style and Hamilton would have been an instant retirement.

http://www.motorspor...nish-gp-report/

Slow stop is slow.

[robefc]

Or keep calm mechanic avoids hamilton DNF...

[OO7]

Or keep calm mechanic avoids hamilton DNF...

That is what concerns me the most about pit stops.  No that the stop is slow, but that after the stop a wheel comes flying off the car.

[MastaKink]

I'd have to congratulate the mechanic on this one I think, 18 points is a fair old chunk that could have gone bouncing down the pit lane.

 

Aye, he should have got it right in the first place but after it's done he could have panicked and sent Lewis out too soon or he could have made a right mess of rectifying the initial mistake and taken an age to get Lewis on his way but by the sounds of it he was lightning quick in spotting it and fixing it so i think that deserves some kudos.

[Markn93]

Classic glass half empty, half full case. Did well to recover an initial mistake.

Now don't do it again ;)

[RubalSher]

Lewis

[teejay]

New to these driver vs driver threads, in particular the one involving the Mercedes pair.

 

Good look to both the old chaps for a good old intra team stosh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

go lois.

[PAGATRON]

Slow stop is slow.

Slow stop better than no go.

[Retrofly]

Slow stop better than no go.

 

But fast stop it better

[FastnLoud]

A rather different way of looking at Lewis's slow stop in Barcelona (courtesy of Mark Hughes)

The stop itself was quick but the mechanic on the left-rear noticed that he had cross-threaded the wheel-nut. Remaining calm, he removed and refitted it – but it had cost a vital extra couple of seconds. Had he not spotted his error, the driven wheel would have likely bounced off down the pitlane Mark Webber-style and Hamilton would have been an instant retirement.

http://www.motorspor...nish-gp-report/

 

The guy is also a Mechanic for Nico - Just saying. And Lewis has had 3 bad pitstops on the left rear

 

FBI Investigation Please!!

[Riverside]

Nico slow stop - yawn.

Lewis slow stop - heart attack.

 

Nico's undercut to get Vettel - he's a lucky bastard. Leader should always get priority.

Lewis gets priority to pass Vettel and Nico left out to ensure Lewis in front - but team screwed up, they should have done better in the pits. Where's the priority for the leader? 

 

Point is,  the double standards are thick.  Insinuations that Nico gets favoritism from Merc, Toto .. even sillier.  

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

Let's continue the quality conversation.

Who wants it more?
Who has that look in his eye?

Who has the EDGE?

Someone answer this.

 

[surbjits]

But fast stop it better

Finishing second or not finishing at all??

[sopa]

If Rosberg can win Monaco for the third year on the trot, it would be quite a remarkable achievement.

 

Yeah, in a way Monaco is just like any other circuit. But Monaco has some kind of tradition, so that people like to keep score. People know Senna is the most successful Monaco driver with 6 wins. They also know Graham Hill has 5 wins. But who has won most races on a random other circuit, who knows? I certainly do not count it.

 

Rosberg with 3 wins would not be up there with the legends yet, but it would be a statement. It doesn't mean his wins must have been convincing, as he held a train of cars behind him in 2013, and controversially won 2014. But Monaco is Monaco. It is different. Different strategies and even somewhat different skillsets/strengths of a driver lead to success there. The likes of Fisichella, Trulli, Webber were all brilliant Monaco drivers.

[HeadFirst]

How will Rosberg feel about Hamilton get the big bucks deal from merc? If the figures talked about are correct?

 

Given the fact Nico is paid an obscene amount of money to drive for the top team in F1, lives in a glamorous city and with his wife is expecting their first child, I think how much Lewis gets paid is far from being on his mind. Beyond the obvious, beating Lewis on the track (not the bank statement) is his focus.

[GoldenColt]

Scary to think that the last time we saw Lewis in the lead at Monaco was 2008. 

[MortenF1]

Monaco is going to be a REALLY important Grand Prix.

I won't discard the idea that if Rosberg wins again, it can have a bad effect on Hamilton. Hamilton MUST put the car on pole, and I think his desire to win this year is crazy.

 

Before anyone is pinching himself with glee because of Rosberg's jealousy: I doubt that Rosberg cares much. He doesn't even own a car, I understand. Only a Vespa. And then: you can only waterski behind one luxerious motorboat at a time...

Nah, Rosberg has got Mercedeses and an Audi RS4 or 6.

Edited by race addicted, 12 May 2015 - 20:02.

[Nemo1965]

I won't discard the idea that if Rosberg wins again, it can have a bad effect on Hamilton. Hamilton MUST put the car on pole this year, and I think his desire to win this year is crazy.

 

Nah, Rosberg has got Mercedeses and an Audi RS4 or 6.

I stand corrected. But my my point stays the same.

[Newbrray]

Before anyone is pinching himself with glee because of Rosberg's jealousy: I doubt that Rosberg cares much. He doesn't even own a car, I understand. Only a Vespa. And then: you can only waterski behind one luxerious motorboat at a time...

 

but I will still prefer to have a tenner than a quid

[apoka]

Monaco is going to be a REALLY important Grand Prix.

 

<INSERT NEXT RACE> is a very important Grand Prix. Everything seems more important before it happens.

[TF110]

Wonder if we'll hear "but I still have the points lead" from Lewis if he comes 2nd? I doubt it. Lets hope theres no parking in q3 this year.

[Nemo1965]

Lewis should have had pole last year but we all know what happened.

As for 2013, Lewis was fastest in the second and third sectors but he missed out on pole position because he missed his breaking point at the first corner.

It's not really an utter domination by Rosberg. Tight margins every year they have been teammates.

 

I don't want to nitpick but missing a braking point is a driver's mistake and not a circumstance beyond his control, like yellow flags (ouch, let's not talk about the war). So the 2013 purple sectors of Lewis mean zilch, IMHO.

[learningtobelost]

I don't want to nitpick but missing a braking point is a driver's mistake and not a circumstance beyond his control, like yellow flags (ouch, let's not talk about the war). So the 2013 purple sectors of Lewis mean zilch, IMHO.

 

I think his point was that the margin between Nico and Lewis at Monaco has been tiny. Lewis could well have had the pole/win in 2013 without the mistake and looked like he would be on course to the pole/win last year without Nico's mistake.

Some people are discussing Monaco as a 'Nico' track, but the reality of the situation is that this reputation has been created by two tiny errors, Lewis missing an apex at St Devote and Nico failing to break for Mirabeau. 

It's all still to play for.

[1Devil1]

I think his point was that the margin between Nico and Lewis at Monaco has been tiny. Lewis could well have had the pole/win in 2013 without the mistake and looked like he would be on course to the pole/win last year without Nico's mistake.

Some people are discussing Monaco as a 'Nico' track, but the reality of the situation is that this reputation has been created by two tiny errors, Lewis missing an apex at St Devote and Nico failing to break for Mirabeau. 

It's all still to play for.

 

Not again, tiny mistakes are part of Monaco, I can't hear it anymore, Rosberg only got this and that because Lewis made a mistake, Rosberg was seen as good Monaco driver before he partnered up with Lewis. I don't think he is good as previous drivers like Schumacher and Senna but it clicked for him before 2013. People refer to Nico as specialist because the opportunity to beat Lewis here is much bigger than on other tracks, not because they believe Rosberg could crush Lewis and dominate him. With his qualifying strength, and his previous record, it seems more likely to beat his team mate, and that's it 

[Nemo1965]

Not again, tiny mistakes are part of Monaco, I can't hear it anymore, Rosberg only got this and that because Lewis made a mistake, Rosberg was seen as good Monaco driver before he partnered up with Lewis. I don't think he is good as previous drivers like Schumacher and Senna but it clicked for him before 2013. People refer to Nico as specialist because the opportunity to beat Lewis here is much bigger than on other tracks, not because they believe Rosberg could crush Lewis and dominate him. With his qualifying strength, and his previous record, it seems more likely to beat his team mate, and that's it 

 

I agree. Unless there is a technical problem with the car, or say, a gust of wind, or oil on the track or a bastard-teammate that creates yellow flags (ahem), a missed apex or a missed BRAKING point (not breaking, dear friends, get it into your heads), is part of the failed achievement. See it this way. I am an avid amateur tennis-player and a qualified teaching pro, and if I really go for it, I can get to about 110 mph on my first serve. Which in most cases would be an ace. But the point is: I only hit 3 out of 10 in... and I ruin my shoulder. So if try to do it the whole match long I will hit many double faults and hurt my shoulder. And I lose my match. Can I say then: 'Well, if only 70 percent of my serve would have gone in and my shoulder would not have played up...'?

 

Of course not.

 

Mistakes are part of the game, also in racing. In 2013 Lewis made a mistake and Nico did not. And if Lewis has two purple sectors at Monaco 2015 and again makes a mistake in the last sector, and Nico doesn't, Nico will have won again. On merit.

[Kobasmashi]

Nico's undercut to get Vettel - he's a lucky bastard. Leader should always get priority.
Lewis gets priority to pass Vettel and Nico left out to ensure Lewis in front - but team screwed up, they should have done better in the pits. Where's the priority for the leader?

Point is, the double standards are thick. Insinuations that Nico gets favoritism from Merc, Toto .. even sillier.

While the more enthusiastic Lewis fans in this thread can justifiably be accused of double standards, I think what freaked them out in Bahrain wasn't necessarily the fact that Nico got the undercut, but rather the fact that it put him less than a second behind Lewis once he'd made his stop, wiping out whatever X second gap he'd built up. The undercut at Bahrain was stronger than everyone expected, whereas even with a smooth pitstop Lewis wouldn't have come close to troubling Nico's lead with an undercut in Spain.

[Ducks]

Maybe Lewis gets first dibs in qualifying this time and "locks up" down the escape road at Mirabeau?

 

If it did happen would Nico be in any position to complain?

[learningtobelost]

Not again, tiny mistakes are part of Monaco, I can't hear it anymore, Rosberg only got this and that because Lewis made a mistake, Rosberg was seen as good Monaco driver before he partnered up with Lewis. I don't think he is good as previous drivers like Schumacher and Senna but it clicked for him before 2013. People refer to Nico as specialist because the opportunity to beat Lewis here is much bigger than on other tracks, not because they believe Rosberg could crush Lewis and dominate him. With his qualifying strength, and his previous record, it seems more likely to beat his team mate, and that's it 

 

You're inferring a lot from my post. 

My point is simple. In 2013 Lewis made an error, and that made the difference. In 2014 Nico made a mistake and that made the difference. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's as clear cut as some (on both sides) are suggesting.
 

[PAGATRON]

Maybe Lewis gets first dibs in qualifying this time and "locks up" down the escape road at Mirabeau?

 

If it did happen would Nico be in any position to complain?

He won't have to because the FIA would punish Lewis.

[1Devil1]

You're inferring a lot from my post. 

My point is simple. In 2013 Lewis made an error, and that made the difference. In 2014 Nico made a mistake and that made the difference. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's as clear cut as some (on both sides) are suggesting.
 

 

Fair enough, Lewis needs no excuses - last year we had posters that claimed Rosberg did not beat Hamilton once on merit because Lewis gifted him poles and wins

[1Devil1]

Maybe Lewis gets first dibs in qualifying this time and "locks up" down the escape road at Mirabeau?

 

If it did happen would Nico be in any position to complain?

 

Firstly, Lewis needs to be in the position to pull of this trick, being fastest after the first shot in q3. We will never see this again, FIA would punish it immediately 

Edited by 1Devil1, 13 May 2015 - 10:52.

[RubalSher]

Firstly, Lewis needs to be in the position to pull of this trick, being fastest after the first shot in q3. We will never see this again, FIA would punish it immediately 

 

Why?

[RubalSher]

Fair enough, Lewis needs no excuses - last year we had posters that claimed Rosberg did not beat Hamilton once on merit because Lewis gifted him poles and wins

 

No, only you are claiming that this year by changing the narrative. You are confusing reliability with Lewis.

[f1supreme]

Nico slow stop - yawn.

Lewis slow stop - heart attack.

 

Nico's undercut to get Vettel - he's a lucky bastard. Leader should always get priority.

Lewis gets priority to pass Vettel and Nico left out to ensure Lewis in front - but team screwed up, they should have done better in the pits. Where's the priority for the leader? 

 

Point is,  the double standards are thick.  Insinuations that Nico gets favoritism from Merc, Toto .. even sillier.  

if you add up all the time lost in the pits,lewis has lost 9 seconds in total to nico.which means for some reason his pitstops are consistently slower.it was similiar at mclaren for some reason.

[f1supreme]

Nico slow stop - yawn.

Lewis slow stop - heart attack.

 

Nico's undercut to get Vettel - he's a lucky bastard. Leader should always get priority.

Lewis gets priority to pass Vettel and Nico left out to ensure Lewis in front - but team screwed up, they should have done better in the pits. Where's the priority for the leader? 

 

Point is,  the double standards are thick.  Insinuations that Nico gets favoritism from Merc, Toto .. even sillier.  

after lewis was pitted in bahrain didnt he come out just ahead of vettel and nico,eventhough he had had a comfy lead before then.nico was never in danger of the same happening to him in spain.also why did they make lewis use the 2014 clutch,when he was happy with the 2015 clutch.then he goes on to have his worst start in a while.

[f1supreme]

I agree. Unless there is a technical problem with the car, or say, a gust of wind, or oil on the track or a bastard-teammate that creates yellow flags (ahem), a missed apex or a missed BRAKING point (not breaking, dear friends, get it into your heads), is part of the failed achievement. See it this way. I am an avid amateur tennis-player and a qualified teaching pro, and if I really go for it, I can get to about 110 mph on my first serve. Which in most cases would be an ace. But the point is: I only hit 3 out of 10 in... and I ruin my shoulder. So if try to do it the whole match long I will hit many double faults and hurt my shoulder. And I lose my match. Can I say then: 'Well, if only 70 percent of my serve would have gone in and my shoulder would not have played up...'?

 

Of course not.

 

Mistakes are part of the game, also in racing. In 2013 Lewis made a mistake and Nico did not. And if Lewis has two purple sectors at Monaco 2015 and again makes a mistake in the last sector, and Nico doesn't, Nico will have won again. On merit.

the point is,it was very close in 2013,less than a tenth.and in 2014,we dont know if lewis would have got pole,because of what nico did.so only once did nico beat lewis fairly in monaco quali,and that was only less than a tenth difference.