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Senna versus Schumacher: book by TNFers answers the question “What if...?”


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#1 lustigson

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 08:49

cropped-sennaversusschumacher-wordpress.

 

On May 14, an intriguing e-book titled 'Senna versus Schumacher and Other Formula One Rivalries That Never Happened' will be released through several online outlets.

 

In the book, Dutch motorsport editors Christiaan 'Lustigson' Lustig and Mattijs 'Racer Demon' Diepraam try to answer the question what might have happened if the rivalry between Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher had come to full bloom. In three more stories, they go on to ask the same question about Alberto Ascari, Stirling Moss and Gilles Villeneuve and the competition they would have had with Juan Manuel Fangio, Jim Clark and Alain Prost respectively.

 

Lustig and Diepraam chose literary fiction for their quest, with reality as their starting point. In four short stories they explore the alternative motorsport history that could have come to pass had Senna, Villeneuve, Moss and Ascari not experienced their accidents or survived them. The Formula 1 heroes are presented as lifelike characters interacting with each other as well as other key figures from F1 history, such as Enzo Ferrari and Colin Chapman.

 

The book is the result of a question that has gripped Christiaan Lustig — the then F1 editor for Autosport.nl — ever since the nineties: what if Ayrton Senna had not been killed at Imola on May 1, 1994? How would he have dealt with an upcoming talent called Michael Schumacher? "It's a question that everyone has asked themselves at least once,” says Lustig. “How would the battle for that year’s world championship have evolved, and what about later seasons? By examining what might have happened we may in fact better understand what did happen."

 

To add more perspective to this question, Lustig invited a co-author to join his project: Mattijs Diepraam, motorsports editor at the Dutch edition of Octane magazine and single-seater reporter for Autosport.nl. Diepraam suggested to also put the rivalries between Ascari and Fangio, Moss and Clark, and Villeneuve and Prost into stories. "Personally, I was especially curious about whether the drivers would have developed their personalities through those rivalries. Would Senna have held his young rival accountable for his behaviour, even though he himself was the inspiration for those actions? Would Moss or Villeneuve eventually have become more interested in winning the world championship? Would Ascari have been able to put paid to his superstition?"

 

According to Lustig and Diepraam, the book should be seen as a tribute to four drivers whose careers — and in three cases lives — were cut short so abruptly. "Some people will say that this is sacrilege," says Lustig. "But the opposite is true. Everyone would want those accidents to never have happened. By considering how their sporting career had developed, we give extra colour to their greatness as sportsmen, and as men."

 

The four stories gave their British proof-reader Richard Armstrong so much inspiration that he wrote a story himself, about Dick Seaman. The pre-war Grand Prix driver was killed in 1939 at Spa and could therefore not interfere in the battle for the European title. The fifth story is included in the bundle as a bonus.

 

The foreword to Senna versus Schumacher was written by Kees van de Grint. The former Bridgestone engineer is currently vice chairman of FIA’s karting commission. He worked closely with Michael Schumacher in his championship years at Ferrari and was a close witness of the karting careers of both Senna and Prost. Drivers like Moss and Clark were his heroes when he visited his first Grand Prix at Zandvoort in the sixties. “These are fascinating stories to read. Sometimes I found myself lost between fiction and reality.”

 

Senna versus Schumacher is available from Thursday, 14 May 2015 as an e-book from outlets like Amazon, Smashwords, and iBooks. Lustig and Diepraam chose this moment in time not just because of the apt Ascension Day date but also because of the fact that the accidents that happened to Moss (April 24), Senna (May 1), Villeneuve (May 8) and Ascari (May 26) all took place in this time of year. People preferring a printed copy of Senna versus Schumacher may order one via Lulu.com.



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#2 E1pix

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:06

Cool idea, I love it... but, I can predict Mr. Villeneuve will beat all comers!

Seriously, sounds very interesting, Best of Luck!

#3 ensign14

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:22

Pfft.  I've already told you.



#4 Felix Muelas

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:46

Well, yes, you did, ensign14, last year, excellent stuff, and that is precisely why you will enjoy a lot the book!

I am a classic, couldn´t resist the temptation of having my copy in printed form!

 

3RciWv.jpg


Edited by Felix Muelas, 12 May 2015 - 09:48.


#5 Jovanotti

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:56

Great book cover!



#6 JoBo

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 17:48

cropped-sennaversusschumacher-wordpress.

 

On May 14, an intriguing e-book titled 'Senna versus Schumacher and Other Formula One Rivalries That Never Happened' will be released through several online outlets.

 

In the book, Dutch motorsport editors Christiaan 'Lustigson' Lustig and Mattijs 'Racer Demon' Diepraam try to answer the question what might have happened if the rivalry between Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher had come to full bloom. In three more stories, they go on to ask the same question about Alberto Ascari, Stirling Moss and Gilles Villeneuve and the competition they would have had with Juan Manuel Fangio, Jim Clark and Alain Prost respectively.

 

Lustig and Diepraam chose literary fiction for their quest, with reality as their starting point. In four short stories they explore the alternative motorsport history that could have come to pass had Senna, Villeneuve, Moss and Ascari not experienced their accidents or survived them. The Formula 1 heroes are presented as lifelike characters interacting with each other as well as other key figures from F1 history, such as Enzo Ferrari and Colin Chapman.

 

The book is the result of a question that has gripped Christiaan Lustig — the then F1 editor for Autosport.nl — ever since the nineties: what if Ayrton Senna had not been killed at Imola on May 1, 1994? How would he have dealt with an upcoming talent called Michael Schumacher? "It's a question that everyone has asked themselves at least once,” says Lustig. “How would the battle for that year’s world championship have evolved, and what about later seasons? By examining what might have happened we may in fact better understand what did happen."

 

To add more perspective to this question, Lustig invited a co-author to join his project: Mattijs Diepraam, motorsports editor at the Dutch edition of Octane magazine and single-seater reporter for Autosport.nl. Diepraam suggested to also put the rivalries between Ascari and Fangio, Moss and Clark, and Villeneuve and Prost into stories. "Personally, I was especially curious about whether the drivers would have developed their personalities through those rivalries. Would Senna have held his young rival accountable for his behaviour, even though he himself was the inspiration for those actions? Would Moss or Villeneuve eventually have become more interested in winning the world championship? Would Ascari have been able to put paid to his superstition?"

 

According to Lustig and Diepraam, the book should be seen as a tribute to four drivers whose careers — and in three cases lives — were cut short so abruptly. "Some people will say that this is sacrilege," says Lustig. "But the opposite is true. Everyone would want those accidents to never have happened. By considering how their sporting career had developed, we give extra colour to their greatness as sportsmen, and as men."

 

The four stories gave their British proof-reader Richard Armstrong so much inspiration that he wrote a story himself, about Dick Seaman. The pre-war Grand Prix driver was killed in 1939 at Spa and could therefore not interfere in the battle for the European title. The fifth story is included in the bundle as a bonus.

 

The foreword to Senna versus Schumacher was written by Kees van de Grint. The former Bridgestone engineer is currently vice chairman of FIA’s karting commission. He worked closely with Michael Schumacher in his championship years at Ferrari and was a close witness of the karting careers of both Senna and Prost. Drivers like Moss and Clark were his heroes when he visited his first Grand Prix at Zandvoort in the sixties. “These are fascinating stories to read. Sometimes I found myself lost between fiction and reality.”

 

Senna versus Schumacher is available from Thursday, 14 May 2015 as an e-book from outlets like Amazon, Smashwords, and iBooks. Lustig and Diepraam chose this moment in time not just because of the apt Ascension Day date but also because of the fact that the accidents that happened to Moss (April 24), Senna (May 1), Villeneuve (May 8) and Ascari (May 26) all took place in this time of year. People preferring a printed copy of Senna versus Schumacher may order one via Lulu.com.

 

Well, thats one of this fantasy-thinkings!

 

Youth was on Schumacher s side.....sooner or later!

 

But both divers had one thing in common - they were both ruthless and so took no prisoners!

 

I know, I know  the English press and people didn`t like Schumacher - but 7 Championships does not care.....

 

JoBo


Edited by JoBo, 12 May 2015 - 17:49.


#7 kayemod

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 18:29


I know, I know  the English press and people didn`t like Schumacher - but 7 Championships does not care.....

 

JoBo

 

Well, I think he did care about the unenthusiastic way in which much of the world regarded him.

 

A lot.



#8 Mallory Dan

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 19:55

Is Mr van der Grint the same chap who did some FF racing here in the 70s? 



#9 jj2728

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 20:57

Doesn't do too much for me to be perfectly honest.....



#10 JoBo

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 22:31

Well, I think he did care about the unenthusiastic way in which much of the world regarded him.

 

A lot.

 

....and Senna was a Saint?

 

I am so tired to hear the endless canonization of Senna. He was rude, he ws egoistic, he was ruthless - and he was a great driver!

Schumacher had the same unpleasant characteristics - and was also a great driver.

 

JoBo


Edited by JoBo, 12 May 2015 - 22:36.


#11 john aston

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 05:41

I don't doubt the effort which went in to this but the basic premise-if this is to be  taken seriously- is flawed. Chaos theory( I think)  tells us that you cannot simply alter one fact without triggering a host of consequences , many of which are unforeseeable - so who is to know that in this parallel narrative it was Schumacher  who died, and not Senna  ; that Villeneuve survived Zolder but was run over by a bus the next day ? There is more than enough history to enjoy without inventing alternative narratives- and this one comes close to the kid's question of which would win the fight, a shark or a lion ? 



#12 Ralf Pickel

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 05:45

Is Mr van der Grint the same chap who did some FF racing here in the 70s? 

No idea about him racing FF, but I do guess he used to work for Bridgestone and has been with Schumacher/Ferrari as tire technician.

He uses a very nice Rene Bonnet in historic events nowadays.

 

Ralf



#13 ensign14

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 07:10

There is more than enough history to enjoy without inventing alternative narratives- and this one comes close to the kid's question of which would win the fight, a shark or a lion ? 

 

Depends on whether it's on land or at sea.



#14 E1pix

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 07:24

Not if it's a Tiger shark.

#15 Henri Greuter

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 07:38

Congratulations on getting your book ready and available.

 

Henri



#16 lustigson

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 08:09

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

 

Great book cover!

 

I'll forward the compliment to the designer.

 

Doesn't do too much for me to be perfectly honest.....

 

No problem. They're good stories, I feel, but they're just that: stories.

 

....and Senna was a Saint?

 

I am so tired to hear the endless canonization of Senna. He was rude, he ws egoistic, he was ruthless - and he was a great driver!

Schumacher had the same unpleasant characteristics - and was also a great driver.

 

JoBo

 

No, Senna wasn't a saint. Neither was Schumacher. And you'll read that we don't try to pretend they are in our stories. There is some interesting character development, however...



#17 Vitesse2

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 08:19

I don't doubt the effort which went in to this but the basic premise-if this is to be  taken seriously- is flawed. Chaos theory( I think)  tells us that you cannot simply alter one fact without triggering a host of consequences , many of which are unforeseeable - so who is to know that in this parallel narrative it was Schumacher  who died, and not Senna  ; that Villeneuve survived Zolder but was run over by a bus the next day ? There is more than enough history to enjoy without inventing alternative narratives- and this one comes close to the kid's question of which would win the fight, a shark or a lion ? 

I see your point of view, John. And if 'alternative history' isn't your cup of tea, that's fine. In some ways - especially from a TNF point of view, where even as individuals Messrs Senna and Schumacher have never exactly been flavour of the month - the title is unfortunate, but from the 'modern' fan's perspective it's the most eyecatching and most likely to sell the book.

 

However, a lot of work - and thought - went into all the stories and while each of them stands on its own they're also thought-provoking in the way they end. Liberties obviously had to be taken with what happened in the real world, but in general they stick pretty closely to reality - which is how the best alternative realities work.

 

As I pointed out in the book thread, the Kindle version will cost about the same as a pint. And last a lot longer. It might even give as much or more pleasure!



#18 kayemod

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 09:04

Depends on whether it's on land or at sea.

 

Yes, and whether either of them had a Kalashnikov.



#19 Glengavel

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 09:31

Depends on whether it's on land or at sea.

 

Hmm...

 

Sharknado_poster.jpg



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#20 Henri Greuter

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Posted 13 May 2015 - 11:05

 

 

 

No, Senna wasn't a saint. Neither was Schumacher. And you'll read that we don't try to pretend they are in our stories. There is some interesting character development, however...

 

We've discussed this at length already but if this story is the same as the one that was available on line for a while, I still think that you are too optimistic in the change of character you've let Senna go through.

 

Many have wondered what would have happened had Senna survived. And regretted the battle never taking place.

But I am glad that it has never come so far that we would have seen those two take on another

I am pretty sure it would have ended in carnage ever too often. A kind of like the stupidities between Hill and Schumacher one year later but then because of a bitter, deep rivalry between two top predators at the top of the pyramid, thriving on instincts instead of common sense.

I wouldn't have minded if they caused retirements to another and had accidents together. But it also could have involved innocent fellow drivers being at the wrong place at the wrong time. And when rivalry becomes so intense and/or thirst for revenge gets so strong that it results into acts that include danger for other, innocent fellow drivers on the track, then it has gone too far for me to see continuation of the rivalry.

Senna had proven beyond doubt that nothing was too risky and too low to avoid defeat or preventing things not going his way. Or in case of seeking revenge for the injustice within his egocentered, selfish world.

Much of that was proven in the future to be valid for Schumacher as well if it came to straight fights for position and titles at stake.

A longer overlap of their careers in time, it makes me shiver to think about what the consequences could be.

Having said that, this doesn't mean at all that I am happy with and about the chain of events and the reasons why the rivalry eventually did came to an end.  I was definitely not happy with and about that.

 

 

 

 

Of all the stories you incluced, I'm the most curious about GV vs AP, and the role Piquet and Lauda may have had in such a story!

 

 

henri


Edited by Henri Greuter, 13 May 2015 - 11:07.


#21 rl1856

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Posted 19 May 2015 - 18:25

Fangio over Ascari    Fangio was just better and more consistent.

Clark over Moss        Very close here and would depend on the car.  But Clark in a Lotus, in top form I think would be smidgeon better than Moss.

Villeneuve over Prost    Villeneuve was the better, though more mercurial driver.  We were robbed of seeing him mature into a more consistent driver.  Until that point, Prost would have been better.     

Senna over Schumacher   Senna had more natural ability.  Personalities aside, Schumacher was able to mold a full team around him and his driving style.  Absent that advantage would he have been as good?  Senna did not care- he just drove.



#22 Sharman

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:39

Just retitle it. "Fairy ales for the easily amused"



#23 George Costanza

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 01:47

Senna would have beaten Schumacher fairly easily in 1995.



#24 E1pix

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 01:51

Just retitle it. "Fairy ales for the easily amused"


Your insult would have more bite without talking about 'fairy ales.'

#25 GMACKIE

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 02:05



#26 Sharman

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 06:23

Funnily enough I did typo edit but didn't check it again, but it was not an insult. I just think it is impossible to "what if" things like this, I saw both Senna & Schumaker just as I saw Ascari, Fangio, Farina, Collins, Hawthorn, Brooks, Moss. Comparisons are odious, the only thing possible to say is that, on his day each could be unbeatable.



#27 lustigson

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 14:42

I just think it is impossible to "what if" things like this

 

No it's not. We did it.

 

Whether anyone agrees to our views/stories, that's an other matter. 

 

 ;)



#28 Sharman

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 15:26

No it's not. We did it.

 

Whether anyone agrees to our views/stories, that's an other matter. 

 

 ;)

and there was I thinking that there was no commercial advertising on TNF :evil:



#29 RStock

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 16:37

I've always hated "what ifs".



#30 Henri Greuter

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 18:02

I've always hated "what ifs"

 

 

Sometimes it can be fun to do studies on "what ifs"

 

I once compiled a story about the Indianapolis exploits of Ferrari and I must admit that eventually I ended up with little substatials as to appear at the Speedway over the years but when you looked into what was daone and then had another view on the period of time it took place and thus, when you began th think about: "If you know this, then what if...."

I must be honest, it was a lot of fun to work out all of that, but it does not of course change history at all.

And something I didn't do either, think far ahead in the future, the projects I dealt with, I only looked at them as for a one year deal only.

 

So to some extends I do understund Lustigson's efforst but as he knows from private correspondence already, I think he is too hard on MS in his work while at the same time he made Senna too mellow as I don't believe Senna could mellow so far as he did. In his career I ahven't seen the evidence that he could change so much as Lustigson made him change.

 

But "what ifs" they surely can be fun.

And they are almost always much nicer that the truth....

 

Henri



#31 lustigson

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:08

I was wondering whether anyone has read the book, and what they thought of it. #curious



#32 427MkIV

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 20:57

Could you also write a book in which Senna leaves the politics of F1 in 1995 and goes to CART, leading Tony George to realize an Indy 500 with Senna is bigger than the IRL would ever be? And Senna then takes CART to worldwide supremacy over F1? Now that's a "what if".



#33 lustigson

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 06:57

Could you also write a book in which Senna leaves the politics of F1 in 1995 and goes to CART, leading Tony George to realize an Indy 500 with Senna is bigger than the IRL would ever be? And Senna then takes CART to worldwide supremacy over F1? Now that's a "what if".

 

It sure would. Although I doubt I'm the right author for such a story.



#34 ToxicEnviroment

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 12:20

I do not like it.

1) the name and the cover suggest AS and MS are main story and other 3 are there just to fill blank pages. Utterly unfair to Villeneuve, Ascari, Moss, Clark, Prost...

2) If you want to write fiction. Write the g....d.... fiction the way the fiction should be written. Make up characters too. It is unfair to take RL characters and place them in fiction. I love fiction. But characters have to be fictional too.