61 replies to this topic

[Graveltrappen]

http://www.motorspor...ed-bull-drivers

Surely he should be warning the staff at Redbull that the guys at STR are doing a better job than them?! Or maybe it's because Newey gets to dip in/out depending on how he's feeling and isn't 100% dedicated to the project despite Redbull having all their eggs in his basket

[keiichi]

The title is a bit over the top considering what Marko actually said. That said, if the car doesn't improve, I think Red Bull will pull a Perez on Kvyat, wich is to say, they will dump him, even though most of the blame lied on the fact the car was crap and then promote the best of the Toro Rosso pairing, wich I must say have been both mighty impressive so far.

[aditya-now]

Daniil, Carlos is faster than you!

Daniel, Max is faster than you!

[lbennie]

Totally out of context, he said that quote after Q on saturday. 

 

Ric has been alonsoesque with what hes doing with that POS.

 

The avarage Q gap between ric & kvyat is half a second. And he has almost always been the one finishing best of the rest behind the mercs/ferraris/willys (by no less than 20seconds last race).

 

Anyone who thinks max or carlos would be doing a better job in the RB11 is delusional

Edited by lbennie, 12 May 2015 - 23:46.

[loki]

Neither Sainz nor Verstappen  have the experience to wheel a car the way Riccardo does. Nor does Kvyat.  The car is a turd and how Riccardo finishes with it compared to Kvyat shows the experience and raw talent of Riccardo.

[aramos]

Ricciardo has thrashed the STR drivers and his team mate every race.

[CurbPainter]

Ricciardo has thrashed the STR drivers and his team mate every race.

 

That's a bit of an overstatement when Max was ahead of him in Malaysia and Max his engine blew in China with only 4 laps to go being also ahead of him.   

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

The message from Marko is clear:

 

For Kvyat, step it up or else you will lose your seat.

 

For Verstappen and Sainz, who does best will probably get a Red Bull seat in 2016.

[V8 Fireworks]

[lbennie]

Maybe Helmut knows Ric is talking to other teams .

 

Thats the only reason i can think of that would explain this strange outburst.

[surbjits]

 

Thats the only reason i can think of that would explain this strange outburst.

 

Marko is a strange man - strange men say strange things

[SPBHM]

it would be nice to see Ricciardo with a competitive car, RBR being behind STR with the same bad engines and massive difference in resources is very shameful, as is blaming the drivers.

[wonk123]

It mus be time to start DR to Ferrari for 2016 rumour: DR>SV>KR = DR replaces Kimmi

 

It must be time to start DR to Mercedes for 2016 rumour: DR>SV>MW>NR = Dan replaces Rosberg.

 

Yep you heard it here first. Ricciardo is so good he will be driving for both Mercedes and Ferrari next year.

[f1RacingForever]

Great job supporting your drivers there Marko. The drivers are not the problem. Perhaps the criticism is better directed at the design team who have created a dud.

[Brother Fox]

I don't doubt that Marko has very useful skills and experience of value to a racing team, but he should be specifically prohibited from talking to the press by RB.

[f1RacingForever]

I don't doubt that Marko has very useful skills and experience of value to a racing team, but he should be specifically prohibited from talking to the press by RB.

Yes. Can we add Bernie and Horner to that list too? Gold, silver and bronze in the whiner Olympics.

[BCM]

The message from Marko is clear:

 

For Kvyat, step it up or else you will lose your seat.

 

For Verstappen and Sainz, who does worst will probably get a Red Bull seat in 2016.

 

I think this is what you meant 

Edited by BCM, 13 May 2015 - 04:44.

[apoka]

The quote refers to qualifying in the Spanish GP. It was taken out of context to generate a clickbait headline. Ricciardo is one of the best drivers in F1 and has 25 points whereas the STR drivers combined has 14. It's more a question of whether RB can keep him rather than throwing him out.

[lbennie]

That's a bit of an overstatement when Max was ahead of him in Malaysia and Max his engine blew in China with only 4 laps to go being also ahead of him.   

 

RB had massive brake problems in malaysia, and Ric was in p18 after the first corner (and still went on to finish 9th) in china.

 

He out-qualified max both times in a slower car (by half a second).

Edited by lbennie, 13 May 2015 - 06:02.

[garoidb]

The message from Marko is clear:

 

For Kvyat, step it up or else you will lose your seat.

 

For Verstappen and Sainz, who does best will probably get a Red Bull seat in 2016.

 

Is that still such an attractive proposition? Maybe they could have better opportunities if they are not retained by STR or Red Bull.

[wj_gibson]

I feel quite sorry for Kvyat, I get the impression that, at the age of 20 and barely a season under his belt, Marko already sees him as surplus to requirements.

[BobbyRicky]

Both Verstappen and Sainz are more talented than Ric and Kvyat, so that statement makes sense.

[Jimisgod]

Both Verstappen and Sainz are more talented than Ric and Kvyat, so that statement makes sense.

 

Hmmm yep, the 17 year old is better han the guy who beat Vettel.

[Requiem84]

Talent does not imply he already is as good as he can become.

Ricciardo did a stellar job last season, and looked much better because Vettel didn't get to grips with the car. Against JEV, Ricciardo just looked marginally better (apart from qualifying).

Kyvat was strong in qualifying last year, but I don't recall particular good races by him? Does anyone have an example?

MV and CS so far are solid, but need to up their game in racetrim, or make the team focus on racesetup ratger than on Q. Last two races the TR was ridiculously bad in racetrim.

[Zava]

Ricciardo has thrashed the STR drivers and his team mate every race.

Especially in Malaysia, where they overtook him left, right and centre... Twice.
Other than that race, I'm sorta ok with your statement, Kvyat is far from matching Dan, a bit harder to assess if he trashed the Toro guys or if the rb11 is a better race car than the str10, but he's been best of the rest mostly.

[aramos]

Especially in Malaysia, where they overtook him left, right and centre... Twice.
Other than that race, I'm sorta ok with your statement, Kvyat is far from matching Dan, a bit harder to assess if he trashed the Toro guys or if the rb11 is a better race car than the str10, but he's been best of the rest mostly.

 

If you look at Kvyat's results they're rarely better than the Toro Rosso guys. So it could well just be Ricciardo who is the top of that bunch. Kvyat, Verstappen and Sainz's results are quite comparable overall.

[1Devil1]

He never would have said that with Vettel on board. This man is not trying to pretend to be objective at all. And a guy like this takes the decision on up coming drivers. If he doesn't like the face of someone, despite the performance of the driver, he will ignore him or talk bad about him in public. Who doesn't remember his outburst against Alguersuari? I am happy Vettel is at Ferrari, this attitude from Marko always reflected bad on Vettel as well. 

[V8 Fireworks]

 Against JEV, Ricciardo just looked marginally better (apart from qualifying).
 

 

If JEV is so good why is JEV not racing in F1? 

[1Devil1]

If JEV is so good why is JEV not racing in F1? 

 

Why is Dan not racing a Ferrari or Mercedes when he is so good? I guess you know how business works in F1

[ensign14]

The message from Marko is clear:

 

It would take someone called Blinky McSquinty to interpret Marko...

[stewie]

The question should be, will the 2016 Red Bull be any good...

[rhukkas]

If JEV is so good why is JEV not racing in F1? 

 

... because he couldn't front the cash like most drivers who aren't in F1.

Once you scratch the silicone veil you see the black holes within. F1 isn't about hiring the best drivers (well, with budgets in karting starting at 250k some of them don't even get the chance to race at all), they don't have to to survive. 

[Kao18]

I think it's a bit to early to write off Kvyat. The RB is hardly a car to excel in at the moment and while Ricciardo seems to be doing better he also has one year more experience in that car and more experience in F1 overall.

 

Nothing wrong with a bit of pressure on these guys to keep them sharp in my view though. Especially for Ricciardo it must be demotivating at times to drive that car when you probably expected to be able to compete for podiums. 

[Black Widow]

Helmut has finally worked out the difference in spelling between Austrian and Australian.

 

Took him a long time to work that out with Webbber....  Ricciardo had him totally bamboozled (and no, that is not the Spike Lee Movie)....

[Seanspeed]

This was said after qualifying, and he only said that the STR drivers did a better job there, not that they are generally better drivers.

[Denaris]

If JEV is so good why is JEV not racing in F1? 

'Generic Verne' his name says it all really!

[PassWind]

Did he give a stern warning to the STR drivers after the race? Or did he actually work out that those two youngsters haven't a clue on how to setup the car for race trim yet and the STR just happens to have a decent single lap pace with the setup the duo are leaning towards. 

[Seanspeed]

Did he give a stern warning to the STR drivers after the race? Or did he actually work out that those two youngsters haven't a clue on how to setup the car for race trim yet and the STR just happens to have a decent single lap pace with the setup the duo are leaning towards.

Probably more of a car thing than a driver thing considering it was both drivers who were affected. It's not like the Toro Rosso guys haven't shown respectable race pace earlier in the season already.

[givemeabettercar]

Guys like Kobayashi and Perez gets load of crap on this boards, but their results are some light years ahead of Kvyat, who doesn't get a tenth of crap these two guys get. Kvyat points per race record is worse than Maldonado, and he still has a long way to be better than Petrov who had worse cars.

 

The warning shouldn't apply for Ricciardo, he is a top 3 driver in F1.

[ViMaMo]

Ric get the hell out of there..... but to where? 

[Brother Fox]

 Kvyat points per race record is worse than Maldonado

 

Take the one bizarre win out of Maldonado's record and redo the calcs for us

[givemeabettercar]

Take the one bizarre win out of Maldonado's record and redo the calcs for us

That day, Pastor was perfect, something Kvyat hasn't been at any point during his f1 career.

[goingthedistance]

The full interview is on AMuS.

 

http://www.auto-moto...ng-9518827.html

 

His words seem aimed at Kyvat, given that he also says in the interview that:

 

"Has Red Bull achieved the maximum?

Marko: Ricciardo has taken out the maximum. Kvyat has lost too much while lapping and was not constant even from the lap times. We are absolutely not stand a chance with this engine power. "

 

Points:

 

Ricciardo      25 points

Sainz             8 points

Verstappen    6 points

Kyvat             5 points

 

Yep, Helmut your logic stands up, particularly given the STR is widely considered to be the aerodynamically superior car at this point. I guess Kyvat is struggling, but RBR has been very unreliable, even compared with STR. 

Edited by goingthedistance, 13 May 2015 - 13:31.

[Kao18]

 

Yep, Helmut your logic stands up, particularly given the STR is widely considered to be the aerodynamically superior car at this point. I guess Kyvat is struggling, but RBR has been very unreliable, even compared with STR. 

 

STR has been just as unreliable as RBR if not more. You must have forgotten Max 'parking' the car on the straight in China while he was in the points 2 laps before the finish. Bahrein was another disaster for STR with the two cars making it about half way. 

[goingthedistance]

STR has been just as unreliable as RBR if not more. You must have forgotten Max 'parking' the car on the straight in China while he was in the points 2 laps before the finish. Bahrein was another disaster for STR with the two cars making it about half way. 

 

Daniil has had two DNFs (one a DNS) compared to Verstappen and Sainz's one. That's what I was referring too. Also, I feel like Red Bull has lost a lot more time during practice sessions. This has led to difficulties getting a setup for the weekend, and assessing tyre wear for the race etc. 

[PlatenGlass]

Both Verstappen and Sainz are more talented than Ric and Kvyat, so that statement makes sense.

What is this based on? It's very difficult to tell how well they're doing given that they've only ever had each other as a team-mate. Most other drivers might be half a second quicker than them, or half a second slower - how do we know? The reason people are saying they are impressive is largely down to the fact that the Toro Rosso is pretty good this year. People always tend to rate performances in better cars higher even if they think they're not doing so.

[goingthedistance]

What is this based on? It's very difficult to tell how well they're doing given that they've only ever had each other as a team-mate. Most other drivers might be half a second quicker than them, or half a second slower - how do we know? The reason people are saying they are impressive is largely down to the fact that the Toro Rosso is pretty good this year. People always tend to rate performances in better cars higher even if they think they're not doing so.

 

Indeed. The more accurate comment from Marko should have been that Red Bull's tech staff ought to be watching their backs, as they have produced an inferior aero package to date. James Key's STR managed to get their short nose homologated prior to the last test, whereas Red Bull have only just introduced theirs now, after 13 internal failures. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it doesn't look as extreme as people had suggested it would, in fact it likes very similar to the STR and Williams one. 

[Kao18]

Daniil has had two DNFs (one a DNS) compared to Verstappen and Sainz's one. That's what I was referring too. Also, I feel like Red Bull has lost a lot more time during practice sessions. This has led to difficulties getting a setup for the weekend, and assessing tyre wear for the race etc. 

 

Verstappen has had three DNFs. All related to reliability problems.

[SamH123]

Pierre Gasly drove both the TR and RB this test and reckons there's little between them:

http://www.espn.co.u...ar-pierre-gasly

[CurbPainter]

Verstappen has had three DNFs. All related to reliability problems.

 

And the other two he had a break problem in Qualifying and engine problems race (Malaysia), and had to do an engine reset because of loss of ERS at the end (Barcelona). FP2 in Australia also got screwed up big time for Max (engine) and same goes for Bahrain FP2 (break problems again, change took only 20 min, but it took him the rest of FP2 again to get confident in breaking again, making the one FP (because of temps) in which he had to do his set up become really scrappy (which lead to a poor Qualifying set up)). After FP2 in Barcelona, Max said it was the first time he was actually happy with how the car was balanced, but they were going to look at the data overnight to even fine tune it more, which made them having a good balance in the "cold" in FP3, but screwed up the set up for higher temps (but he still got the max out of his car in Qualifying by being in Q2 slightly ahead of Carlos and in Q3 just being slightly behind him, which is not bad if your set up not as good as your team mate)...so you can hardly say Max hasn't had any problems also when he had them in all his races.

 

The balance of the STR seems to be relatively well this year, but they seem to suffer in the firts few laps of the race by not going really well with lots of full fuel.

 

I agree with Ricciardo doing a good job and getting the max out of his car (the RB might still be a bit faster car actually, a bad qualifying in Barcelona by the RB guys doesn`t make the car worse than the STR).

 

So I'm guessing this is all about drivers getting the max out of their cars in what they are capable of (also during some parts of the races)...Carlos did in Barcelona during the race, which brought him in a position to capitalize on it in the end. It`s also about making the right decisions when the drivers need to make a decision while being under pressure, and you can ask yourself if Kvyat has done that, at the end of Barcelona you saw Kvyat being under pressure (he can say he isn't, but he is) making a not so good decision by making contact with Carlos...I think Dr. Marko also puts pressure on drivers deliberately to see how they handle being under it... 

 

...so another thing to look out for will be, how does Kvyat react in certain circumstances this seasons.

Edited by CurbPainter, 13 May 2015 - 18:56.