42 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

Story on motorsport http://www.motorspor...ine-rule-change

 

Apparently us fans want 1000 bhp engines.

[TheRacingElf]

Still don't really know where this quest for 1000 horsepower comes from. People who want the engines regulations to change want them changed because of the sound, not because of their power output I think..

[Moctecus]

Ron Walker used to be race promoter for the Australian GP, but isn't anymore. He has been complaining about the new engines from the very beginning. The headline mentions "race promoters", but only mentions the demand of one individual, who isn't even a race promoter anymore.

[goingthedistance]

Bernie is behind it, no doubt. A carefully timed bulletin before the crucial meeting tomorrow. Though I'm sure his antipathy for the new engines is shared by most of the race promoters, given the diminishment to the show. I recall the US GP promoter being particularly down on the V6s.

Edited by goingthedistance, 13 May 2015 - 13:26.

[FullThrottleF1]

It has nothing to do with sound. Everybody is loving the LMP1 battle in the WEC at the moment, and they barely make a sound.

[Jamiednm]

It has nothing to do with sound. Everybody is loving the LMP1 battle in the WEC at the moment, and they barely make a sound.

 

Spectacular sound isn't indelibly associated with WEC as it has been with F1.

[tmekt]

Still don't really know where this quest for 1000 horsepower comes from. People who want the engines regulations to change want them changed because of the sound, not because of their power output I think..

Probably from the fact that it's a nice round number.

 

Imagine the marketing possibilities: "Come see the cars that have A THOUSAND horsepower!!!!!111"

[Rob]

Did Ron Walker carry out any polling, send out any surveys or carry out detailed discussions with a statistically significant number of fans in order to conduct a thorough analysis of the situation? If not, it would be easy for one to assume he was projecting his own opinion.

[Alfisti]

Did Ron Walker carry out any polling, send out any surveys or carry out detailed discussions with a statistically significant number of fans in order to conduct a thorough analysis of the situation? If not, it would be easy for one to assume he was projecting his own opinion.

 

No, but I showed my 3 year old a youtube clip of a 2003 car and he thought it was ****ing awesome. The cars just need to be nastier, they need to look faster, harder to drive and sound pissed off .. there's a feeling, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter, but a feeling that joe average could peddle the things. 

[goingthedistance]

Interesting to see this article is from Jon Noble, on his first day at Motorsport.com. Autosport are going to miss his breaking stories. 

[Lennat]

F1 cars should not be less powerful than contemporary hypercars. Of course they are much lighter and faster anyway, but still. 

 

It was depressing to see Ferrari try an F1 engine in the LaFerrari, only for it to have LESS power than the regular road car. 

[Fastcake]

The top end Supercars have had more power than F1 cars for over a decade now. You can't just keep making the engines in F1 ever more powerful, just to keep up with the still much slower road cars. Formula One cars can actually use that power to produce dangerously high speeds.

Interesting to see this article is from Jon Noble, on his first day at Motorsport.com. Autosport are going to miss his breaking stories.

Is there anyone left at Autosport now?

Edited by Fastcake, 13 May 2015 - 14:33.

[AustinF1]

It has nothing to do with sound. Everybody is loving the LMP1 battle in the WEC at the moment, and they barely make a sound.

Ah, but the LMP1s aren't the only cars on the track. They run backed by an awesome soundtrack of a variety of other engines.

[FullThrottleF1]

Ah, but the LMP1s aren't the only cars on the track. They run backed by an awesome soundtrack of a variety of other engines.

I know! At Silverstone this year the Ferrari and Aston Martin GT cars sounded epic, but the LMP1 cars were so beautiful.

[FullThrottleF1]

Is there anyone left at Autosport now?

 

Gilles?

[V8 Fireworks]

It has nothing to do with sound. Everybody is loving the LMP1 battle in the WEC at the moment, and they barely make a sound.

 

Some of them sound better than F1 

 

[Gilles4Ever]

Gilles?

I don't work for Autosport or have anything to do with Haymarket, nor do any on the mods, but there is a thread in Website Feedback discussing who has left/joined Autosport, it's not a discussion for here.

[FullThrottleF1]

I don't work for Autosport or have anything to do with Haymarket, nor do any on the mods, but there is a thread in Website Feedback discussing who has left/joined Autosport, it's not a discussion for here.

I know... just a joke 

[V8 Fireworks]

No, but I showed my 3 year old a youtube clip of a 2003 car and he thought it was ****ing awesome. The cars just need to be nastier, they need to look faster, harder to drive and sound pissed off .. there's a feeling, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter, but a feeling that joe average could peddle the things. 

 

 

It brought the crowds! Just look at those packed stands!!!

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 13 May 2015 - 14:46.

[LuckyStrike1]

Yes, 1000 BHP is just what I need. That feels very important. 

[AustinF1]

 

 

Ron Walker, the former Australian Grand Prix CEO and head of the Formula One Promoters' Association (FOPA)

Is he still head of FOPA?

[mclarensmps]

It has nothing to do with sound. Everybody is loving the LMP1 battle in the WEC at the moment, and they barely make a sound.

 

The loud cars in the other classes make up for the lack of sound of the LMP1s. We just take it for granted. It's not a fair comparison. 

[AustinF1]

The loud cars in the other classes make up for the lack of sound of the LMP1s. We just take it for granted. It's not a fair comparison. 

Yep. Quiet cars aren't such a big deal when they aren't the only thing on the track. I do appreciate the sound of those cars too, and I think they sound a bit better than F1 cars do right now. But if they were the only engines on the track it would probably be a little underwhelming, like F1 is now.

[Seanspeed]

It has nothing to do with sound. Everybody is loving the LMP1 battle in the WEC at the moment, and they barely make a sound.

Let me know when WEC venues can charge $200+ for average ticket prices and still get 30,000+ people in the stands on raceday consistently.

Honestly, I don't give a toss about WEC and *most* F1 fans probably don't, either. It's a sport for more dedicated motorsport fans(not all of them mind you), not casual viewership, which F1 still relies a lot on. The sound absolutely matters. F1 cars need to be sexy, and that means being loud and mean sounding. The way they are right now, the 'dedicated motorsport fans' will understand that they're actually quite powerful and more difficult to drive than before, but the perception from the general public will be that they're quieter and therefore less interesting.

Perception is huge in marketing. Matters *way* more than facts or truth.

Edited by Seanspeed, 13 May 2015 - 15:08.

[AustinF1]

Let me know when WEC venues can charge $200+ for average ticket prices and still get 30,000+ people in the stands on raceday consistently.

Honestly, I don't give a toss about WEC and *most* F1 fans probably don't, either. It's a sport for more dedicated motorsport fans(not all of them mind you), not casual viewership, which F1 still relies a lot on. The sound absolutely matters. F1 cars need to be sexy, and that means being loud and mean sounding. The way they are right now, the 'dedicated motorsport fans' will understand that they're actually quite powerful and more difficult to drive than before, but the perception from the general public will be that they're quieter and therefore less interesting.

Perception is huge in marketing. Matters *way* more than facts or truth.

I love attending WEC races but, even at their low prices, the next time I see 30K ppl at a WEC race outside Le Mans will be the first time...regardless of what the WEC and the venues claim.

Edited by AustinF1, 13 May 2015 - 15:26.

[Imateria]

No, but I showed my 3 year old a youtube clip of a 2003 car and he thought it was ****ing awesome. The cars just need to be nastier, they need to look faster, harder to drive and sound pissed off .. there's a feeling, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter, but a feeling that joe average could peddle the things. 

Joe Average was saying the exact same thing in 2003, largely from everyone bitching about traction control, launch control, the complex electronics and also because the cars looked like they were on rails with so much downforce.

 

Everybody looks to the old cars of the 60's/70's/80's and the way they drifted through corners on low grip tyres and bucked under power from the turbos and completely forgets that the whole reason for this was because the cars were absolutely agricultural in comparison to the level of engineering available today in all areas of the cars design. The only way we could get back to that would be a spec series where everything is mandated to be considerable worse and unrefined in comparison to what they'd actually be able to, and likely want to, do.

 

One thing I agree with in the articles from Jonathan Noble and Edd Straw is that F1 really needs to pick a direction it wants the sport to go in and then hammer it home, the current governance method is more like a blind man playing darts.

 

F1 cars should not be less powerful than contemporary hypercars. Of course they are much lighter and faster anyway, but still. 

 

It was depressing to see Ferrari try an F1 engine in the LaFerrari, only for it to have LESS power than the regular road car. 

Well duur. The F1 engine was meant for a very specific type of car so I'd be shocked if it produced it's normal power levels without series modification to the ancilleries to get everything fitted in and working optimally.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

How do you produce exciting action on track, truly challenge the drivers, and separate the men from the boys? Give the cars so much power they are beasts to drive. You don't need to play games with wonky tires, because with so much power, if a driver overdoes it, they won't last long. Driving talent will become more important, and fans will easily be able to discern the differences.

[George Costanza]

 

It brought the crowds! Just look at those packed stands!!!

 1995 Aus GP was largely because of a Bon Jovi concert which the tickets were included...

[Shambolic]

How do you produce exciting action on track, truly challenge the drivers, and separate the men from the boys?

 

Gravel traps.

 

Make running wide a race ending (but not injury causing) event. F1 seems dull currently because the challenge, the feel of speed, risk, are gone. Tracks painted onto square miles of tarmac give little in the way of spectacle, noise or no noise.

[AustinF1]

Yep. Looks like Walker is still chairman of FOPA...

 

http://www.motorspor...he-senses-again

[BullHead]

They'd be better off complaining demanding lower hosting fees...

[AustinF1]

They probably realize they won't get that, so they're trying to get a better product to sell.

[Imateria]

How do you produce exciting action on track, truly challenge the drivers, and separate the men from the boys? Give the cars so much power they are beasts to drive. You don't need to play games with wonky tires, because with so much power, if a driver overdoes it, they won't last long. Driving talent will become more important, and fans will easily be able to discern the differences.

LMP1's have as much as 1300hp, that doesnt make them overly hard to drive. With modern engineering you'd likely get a nice progressive torque curve giving good driveability, completely nullifying this simplistic view.

 

I think the only way this could be achieved is with Funny Car levels of horse power and then we're well and trully into the realm of "too fast to drive safely".

[P123]

Walker is a Bernie stooge.

Cheaper prices are more likely to bring more people in. For that to happen there would need to be lower sanctioning fees paid to Bernie. And of course Ecclestone did go all Ratner on the sport, and some races may be paying the price for that too.

[P123]

No, but I showed my 3 year old a youtube clip of a 2003 car and he thought it was ****ing awesome. The cars just need to be nastier, they need to look faster, harder to drive and sound pissed off .. there's a feeling, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter, but a feeling that joe average could peddle the things.

That feeling has been there for a long time. It pre-dates V6s.

[AustinF1]

 

 

The cars just need to be nastier

That's really the best way I've seen it put, by far, imho.

[aramos]

Bernie playing politics. This strategy group meeting will decide the key direction the sport takes.

I have no issue with Bernies suggestions so it's fine by me.

[ANF]

That feeling has been there for a long time. It pre-dates V6s.

Indeed. http://forums.autosp...gets-in-a-spin/

 

Oh my god, it's on Youtube! https://youtu.be/GLLDWnJEUfQ

Edited by ANF, 14 May 2015 - 12:08.

[GTRacer]

What Ron doesn't mention is that circuit attendance at Melbourne was actually up this year which kind of hurts his argument.

 

As to 1,000BHP, Its a pointless & artificial target, Especially given that its probable that within the next 5 years they will hit that figure even if no changes are made.

 

I'd also point to WEC in that the LMP1-HY cars are above 1,000Bhp yet the cars don't look any harder to drive & the racing is no different compared to when they were producing similar power levels F1 is currently at. Its also worth pointing out that the WEC cars are only above 1,000Bhp because of the hybrid units which are pumping out far more power than what F1 has in part because they have more room & more weight to fit there systems into.

Edited by GTRacer, 14 May 2015 - 12:30.

[pdac]

How do you produce exciting action on track, truly challenge the drivers, and separate the men from the boys? Give the cars so much power they are beasts to drive. You don't need to play games with wonky tires, because with so much power, if a driver overdoes it, they won't last long. Driving talent will become more important, and fans will easily be able to discern the differences.

 

Not that I disagree, but the problem is always that nowadays you have to protect both the drivers (themselves and other drivers) and also the spectators from a driver who can't hack it. Hence the stringent crash testing and miles of tarmac run-off area. They try to balance the two (and always seem to get it wrong).

[John Player]

indycar looks harder to drive and sound better than F1 at the moment

[AustinF1]

indycar looks harder to drive and sound better than F1 at the moment

True. Which is sad, b/c they sound like ****, too.

[sterlingfan2000]

-Remove Fuel Limit or Bump it  to 200L

- And for feck sake increase RPM from 15.000->21.000 minimum