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Suggestion: Disqus comment section for each article


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#1 afsartori

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 16:36

Dear Autosport website administrators and journalists,

 

why not adding a comment section for each article using the Disqus platform (if you don't want to implement your own system) to allow more interaction between the media, the events and the public?

See an example here (scroll down until the end of the article to the the comment section): http://www.thelocal....return-to-table

 

I think it is beneficial for both parties (Autosport and the public) if we can comment on the articles, because:

1. You motivate us to open Autosport much more frequently

2. We have the opportunity to exchange with the journalists more directly on each topic.

3. Public opinion becomes much more visible to everybody, which is particularly important for Formula 1 in its current situation.

4. We have a bit of a feeling that we participate in the affairs of the sport.

 

As an example, after reading http://www.autosport...t.php/id/119084 I would have liked to make a comment about how short-sighted the opinion of Christian Horner and Franz Tost is, because bringing back a tyre manufacturer war doesn't imply that they'll have to follow the same rules as before. It could be enforced from the rules that tyre manufacturers must supply the exact same products to their customers and not privilege one particular team. It's so simple. And teams spend money to optimise a car around the tyre regardless of the manufacturer.

 

So, if we had a comment section there, we could participate in the discussion and they would also have the chance to get a feedback from the public about what they say. And even comment!

 

I think putting a comment section for each article would be a win-win solution.

 

I presume a similar idea has been discussed in the past and for some reason not implemented. But I ask you to reconsider it for the reasons described above.

 

Best regards,

André.

 



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#2 Option1

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 17:27

I could have sworn that's what the forum is for.

 

Neil



#3 afsartori

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 18:22

I could have sworn that's what the forum is for.

 

Neil

 

Do you really think that everybody bothers to click on the very shy Forum link, create an account and post a new thread only to express an opinion about one article? It's not worth the effort. With the Disqus comment section for each article, the comments can be seen by anyone, anytime. People read the article and can immediately read the comments and comment if he/she has a Disqus account (which works for any other website that uses this platform). This Forum format here is only more or less appealing for assiduous Autosport readers, and it is far from being as practical as Disqus. I was very surprised to find out that, despite having an Autosport premium account, I had to create a second account, specifically for the Forum! It makes absolutely no sense. Really. This Forum as it is seems like a separate entity from the Autosport - motorsport news - website. Do you understand my point? And implementing Disqus doesn't have to imply killing this Forum here. Both can coexist.

 

Reading an Autosport article is like walking on the streets. It's public domain. You see everything, people see you. If there is an event going on (an Autosport article) you can go there and take part in the event. People around see you, they can join you or not. This forum here, though, is like trying to make yourself heard, trying to participate in that public event, but trying to do so from inside a locked building.

 

Do you think that a guy like Christian Horner reads Autosport? Very likely. Do you think that he frequents this Forum? At least as often? I'm not so sure.


Edited by afsartori, 21 May 2015 - 18:33.


#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 21:07

1 Do you think Christian Horner would bother to read Disqus comments either?

2 Do you think Autosport have the money to pay someone (probably at least two people) to do nothing much except moderate Disqus comments 24/7? When that would be a duplication of something that already exists? In case you aren't aware of it, all the BB moderators are unpaid volunteers and - especially during GP weekends or when there is some sort of controversial news - it's a damned near full-time job. The BB mods have more than enough to do without taking on more.

3 Autosport would have no real control over Disqus comments. We have enough trouble ensuring that offensive or libellous messages don't appear, but it's very easy for us to ban people or disable them from posting. That would be far harder with Disqus.

4 Disqus is infested with spammers. On the BB we can zap spammers instantly and they're easy to spot as they usually advertise their presence by starting new threads. That's not possible with Disqus - a spammer can post in two or three Disqus threads every minute.

5 The whole point of having the forum and not allowing anonymous posting is to retain some sort of control. With Disqus that would go straight out the window. There are many thousands of news items on the site, with hundreds more being added every week: the idea of putting a Disqus thread on every one is ludicrous.



#5 afsartori

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 22:28

"1 Do you think Christian Horner would bother to read Disqus comments either?"

Do you know how Disqus works? The comments are visible in the page, whether you have an account or not. When you reach the bottom of the article you already start seeing the comments. So it's not a matter of "bothering", it's just there, easy to see. One only has to scroll down. Costs nothing. Literally nothing. And whoever took the time to read the article, will have a couple of seconds to check some comments. It's not the same as this Forum here. The barrier is orders of magnitude higher.

 

"2 Do you think Autosport have the money to pay someone (probably at least two people) to do nothing much except moderate Disqus comments 24/7? When that would be a duplication of something that already exists? In case you aren't aware of it, all the BB moderators are unpaid volunteers and - especially during GP weekends or when there is some sort of controversial news - it's a damned near full-time job. The BB mods have more than enough to do without taking on more."

I would rather discuss facts here. If Autosport has people to maintain their own Forum system with all the maintenance that it requires (software maintenance plus database maintenance plus troubleshooting plus moderation), they would have people to simply look at comments and allow or delete them. And in fact, they don't even have to moderate anything. Moderation is optional. You can't be liable for what other people write on the internet. Of course you don't want to have people messing around and disrespecting others, but there are tools to keep an eye on it.

 

"3 Autosport would have no real control over Disqus comments. We have enough trouble ensuring that offensive or libellous messages don't appear, but it's very easy for us to ban people or disable them from posting. That would be far harder with Disqus."

Partially answered in the previous question. I never installed Disqus because I don't have my own website, but I'm sure they offer managing functions. Do the homework first:

https://help.disqus....#basic-settings

 

"4 Disqus is infested with spammers. On the BB we can zap spammers instantly and they're easy to spot as they usually advertise their presence by starting new threads. That's not possible with Disqus - a spammer can post in two or three Disqus threads every minute."

IF spamming would become a serious issue in Autosport, simply require approval of all comments: https://help.disqus....aling-with-spam .. or add filters. I don't see any spamming problem with TheLocal, for example.

 

"5 The whole point of having the forum and not allowing anonymous posting is to retain some sort of control. With Disqus that would go straight out the window. There are many thousands of news items on the site, with hundreds more being added every week: the idea of putting a Disqus thread on every one is ludicrous."

Autosport wouldn't be the only one. I get more news feeds from one single version of TheLocal than from the Autosport F1 feed, and here we don't debate issues such as religion, drugs, homosexual marriage, etc. that usually spice up the comment sections and catch the attention of a much broader public. You're making it sound that it would be a huge problem. But I doubt it. The advantage of having more page views and therefore advertisement is very compelling. Furthermore, one would not have to add a comment section to all articles. Only the new ones. What is past remains in the past. You don't have to change. And finally, you can't ever have full control of the internet. If somebody is really keen to create fake accounts to spam Disqus, he can do the same at Autosport. All one needs is a verifiable email address and nothing else to do in his life.

 

All you are doing is looking for objections instead of weighting the pros and cons. An open, visible public comment section is much more effective and useful for everybody interested in F1 than a closed Forum disconnected from the news articles which are in fact the heart of Autosport.

 

Disqus can at least be tested. If it works, keep it. If it doesn't, take it away. Very simple. No need to make a storm out of a cup of water.

 

Wanna engage with the fans? Give them the opportunity.


Edited by afsartori, 21 May 2015 - 22:33.


#6 afsartori

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 22:52

... and something I forgot to mention, the comment sections can be closed after a certain amount of time. And then nobody can post anything more. So any issue with moderation and people causing trouble in a certain article would be limited in time, in the worst case.

 

I wouldn't come and suggest something without having previous experience with it. Disqus can work very well.



#7 Option1

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 23:31

If you're so very keen on having Christian Horner consume your dripping pearls of wisdom, why not email said pearls to the team he works for?  That would have a far, far higher chance of him reading them (i.e. 0.01 above bugger all) than your proposed method.

Or you could post them on the forum...

 

Neil



#8 afsartori

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 01:39

If you're so very keen on having Christian Horner consume your dripping pearls of wisdom, why not email said pearls to the team he works for?  That would have a far, far higher chance of him reading them (i.e. 0.01 above bugger all) than your proposed method.

Or you could post them on the forum...

 

Neil

 

This is not about Christian Horner or feeling entitled to shove "pearls of wisdom" down people's throats, and I think this is plain clear to anyone not interested in wasting time with cheap sarcasms. But still using the example that I gave, if he wouldn't read the article and the comments, likely someone else in a relevant position would, and if people's opinions are resonating and are visible to anyone, we form a critical mass of opinion that have a bigger chance to influence the thought processes around Formula 1 and eventually change things in a more reasonable way than the unilateral approach that has been taken so far.

 

I ask the question: what is the percentage of visibility that this Forum has relative to the visibility that Autosport.com has? Does it reach a remarkable 1%? Does anybody have a real number? I would like to know. Then what would be the visibility of public comments posted right after each article, on the very same page? Nearly as much as the articles themselves.

 

I mean, I mentioned Disqus because it's easy, but one could use the same platform used in this Forum to achieve the same result. It costs more work to implement, of course, but then all this non-sense about having more or less control couldn't be raised anymore. What keeps Autosport from doing that? Probably only good will.

 

I kind of sense that journalists don't like the idea so much, maybe because they would be more vulnerable and with less control of what comes out. Their job of "relaying" information would be slightly lessened when people are given space to say for themselves. But ultimately that's how it should be. It's the democratic, transparent way of doing things.


Edited by afsartori, 22 May 2015 - 01:40.


#9 Nonesuch

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 07:16

2. We have the opportunity to exchange with the journalists more directly on each topic.

 

How would this work? Journalists working for websites tend to be under some pressure to keep generating articles, and while it may be less so at Autosport than at other venues, I doubt the management would be too keen on having them spend an hour or two each day responding to the comments on each article.

 

More importantly, comment sections tied to news articles tend to fall off the frontpage within a day or two, effectively ending the discussion. While I won't claim that the discussions on this forum are always well thought out and enlightning, at least there is a sort of permanence to them that encourages people to engage in more serious conversation than the quick 'comment and leave' culture that seems to exist on most frontpage comment sections.
 

Their job of "relaying" information would be slightly lessened when people are given space to say for themselves. But ultimately that's how it should be. It's the democratic, transparent way of doing things.

 

Autosport is not a public institution. You can have your say, but perhaps not on Autosport's website.


Edited by Nonesuch, 23 May 2015 - 07:17.


#10 Risil

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 08:28

If somebody is really keen to create fake accounts to spam Disqus, he can do the same at Autosport. All one needs is a verifiable email address and nothing else to do in his life.

 

QED!



#11 HP

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 12:01

Well since many articles here on Autosport are premium content, how would that work?

 

Besides the trend seems to be to separate an online publications own content from user generated content, because the majority I've seen, if it's remotely interesting creates flame wars. Why would any serious publication want to publish that with their story?


Edited by HP, 23 May 2015 - 12:01.


#12 afsartori

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 12:56

How would this work? Journalists working for websites tend to be under some pressure to keep generating articles, and while it may be less so at Autosport than at other venues, I doubt the management would be too keen on having them spend an hour or two each day responding to the comments on each article.

 

More importantly, comment sections tied to news articles tend to fall off the frontpage within a day or two, effectively ending the discussion. While I won't claim that the discussions on this forum are always well thought out and enlightning, at least there is a sort of permanence to them that encourages people to engage in more serious conversation than the quick 'comment and leave' culture that seems to exist on most frontpage comment sections.
 

 

Autosport is not a public institution. You can have your say, but perhaps not on Autosport's website.

 

1. Journalists don't *have* to respond to the comments or to all of them. Knowing that the public opinion is visible to the journalists and to important F1 people is already satisfactory enough. If they are taking part in the conversations, even better.

 

2. The display of the comment section with Disqus or other system is manageable. With discuss, for example, you can configure the comment section to be open for a certain time, enough for the article to lose visibility and be outdated. And then the comment section is locked. Despite locked it remains on the page. Anybody can see the comments.

 

3. Yeah autosport isn't public but it survives thanks to the public. They can opt to nurture a close relationship with their custumers and with their public, engaging with them, treating them as partners, or they can opt to be corporate and distant just like F1 and lose many opportunities, as well as the interest of many people.


Edited by afsartori, 23 May 2015 - 13:23.


#13 afsartori

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 13:07

Well since many articles here on Autosport are premium content, how would that work?

 

Besides the trend seems to be to separate an online publications own content from user generated content, because the majority I've seen, if it's remotely interesting creates flame wars. Why would any serious publication want to publish that with their story?

 

1. Several articles are premium content, but not "many" (relatively speaking). Premium articles would remain visible to premium subscribers and therefore the comments section remains visible to those having a premium account. Nothing changes. Why should it?

 

2. I think it's clear to everybody what the serious, official content is, and what the public, unnoficial content is. We can't be liable for what people write on the internet. And moderation exists to allow some control of the public content next to the article.


Edited by afsartori, 23 May 2015 - 13:25.


#14 Vitesse2

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 13:33

1. Several articles are premium content, but not "many". Premium articles would remain visible to premium subscribers and therefore the comments section remains visible to those having a premium account. Nothing changes. Why should it?

 

2. I think it's clear to everybody what is the serious, official content, and what is the public, unnoficial content. We can't be liable for what people write on the internet. And moderation exists to allow some control of the public content next to the article.

Your second point demonstrates that you have absolutely no understanding of libel law, the laws of defamation and/or copyright.

 

I have no intention of going into details, but there have been several occasions when potentially libellous comments - and in some cases entire threads - have had to be removed from the BB due to genuine threats of litigation which could have cost Autosport a lot of money. There are also regular copyright claims for both photographs and text which has been illegally posted by users - possibly innocently or in ignorance - but ultimately it's Autosport's responsibility to ensure that the law is adhered to. When lawyers see a big corporate body like Autosport's owner Haymarket as a potential defence litigant they don't just send a standard 'cease and desist' letter: big neon $$$ signs light up and they start contemplating what model of Bentley they're going to order.

 

As I pointed out before, this is at times an almost full-time job. If you had ever moderated a BB you would know that.



#15 afsartori

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 13:56

Your second point demonstrates that you have absolutely no understanding of libel law, the laws of defamation and/or copyright.

 

I have no intention of going into details, but there have been several occasions when potentially libellous comments - and in some cases entire threads - have had to be removed from the BB due to genuine threats of litigation which could have cost Autosport a lot of money. There are also regular copyright claims for both photographs and text which has been illegally posted by users - possibly innocently or in ignorance - but ultimately it's Autosport's responsibility to ensure that the law is adhered to. When lawyers see a big corporate body like Autosport's owner Haymarket as a potential defence litigant they don't just send a standard 'cease and desist' letter: big neon $$$ signs light up and they start contemplating what model of Bentley they're going to order.

 

As I pointed out before, this is at times an almost full-time job. If you had ever moderated a BB you would know that.

 

I concede I'm not a lawyer, but when I said we can't be liable for what other people write on the internet I'm not considering people threatening Autosport.

 

Please enlighten me on this aspect and answer these questions:

1. Can Autosport be liable for a forum member criticising or offending or threatening another member or any other person? Or is it only the author of the comment responsible for his actions?

2. Can a person sue Autosport for the comments of a forum member? I would expect that - during litigation - Autosport could be *required* to remove a comment, but not be blamed responsible for it.

(I honestly can't see any lawyer winning a case on these two issues.)

3. Can't this responsibility issue (copyright infringement, etc.) be addressed in the "Terms and Conditions" for using the Forum?

4. Wouldn't these problems automatically be solved if Autosport used a third party platform? Officially the content of the comment section would lie with Disqus, not with Autosport. The members would belong to Disqus, not to Autosport.

 

If such logic of accountability would be valid, then all internet providers would be liable for what their internet customers illegally download. But they aren't. Just like an internet provider, Autosport Forum is only a passive platform for other users. It can't (shouldn't) be held responsible for what users do. I can imagine that some people could attempt a lawsuit under certain situations, but has anybody up to now won any law suit against Autosport because of the Forum?

 

But going back to the initial point: comment section on each article. The amount of work will always depend on the solution implemented. As I said, Autosport could used third party solutions or they could use their own. The comment sections can be open forever (would be silly to do that) or they can be time-limited or size-limited. You don't have to allow pictures and videos being posted either. There's a solution for everything. You shouldn't make a 1:1 transfer of the problems you face with your forum to the new format we are discussing here.


Edited by afsartori, 26 May 2015 - 15:52.