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Mercedes pit decision at Monaco


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#1501 Marklar

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 05:55

The driver of the Safety Car Bernd Maylander wrote in an column for motorsport-total.com that he was deployed immediately after the Verstappen crash. And he was starled when he saw the "VSC" Signs. So they was actually never an VSC. Maylander also wrote that after he catched Hamilton up and Lewis was entering the pit lane he was 100 % sure that Hamilton will not win this race.

Edited by Marklar, 04 June 2015 - 06:12.


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#1502 alframsey

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 14:04

This is still rumbling on? I thought everything that could possibly have been said already had been?

#1503 Szoelloe

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 14:38

This is still rumbling on? I thought everything that could possibly have been said already had been?

 

 

 

That was around page 5.



#1504 Haribo

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 14:49

I wan to ask about the Virtual Safety Car.

 

When it was deployed in the WEC earlier this year, from what I could see, ALL the cars lapped at the same reduced speed and kept the distances between each other static.

 

Is this not the case then with an F1 Virtual Safety Car? Are the rules different? Are they allowed to move round at different speeds?



#1505 RubalSher

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 15:47

I wan to ask about the Virtual Safety Car.

 

When it was deployed in the WEC earlier this year, from what I could see, ALL the cars lapped at the same reduced speed and kept the distances between each other static.

 

Is this not the case then with an F1 Virtual Safety Car? Are the rules different? Are they allowed to move round at different speeds?

 

From what I know, over a lap the distance should stay static. Why do you ask?



#1506 Paco

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 18:01

Well Lewis is over it so we should probably be too..

#1507 HeadFirst

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 19:43

Well Lewis is over it so we should probably be too..

 

No surprise really. One of the attributes that has seen his success on the rise, is his ability to focus on what is important. Right now that is Montreal.



#1508 LEO10

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 18:41

http://www.formula1....r_Mercedes.html

Full radio conversation here, these people are completely clueless  :lol:



#1509 realracer200

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:17

why are they repeating stay positive so much?


Edited by realracer200, 05 June 2015 - 19:20.


#1510 Jovanotti

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:22

One line would have sufficed: "Everybody's going to be on options now" - "No worries Lewis, Nico and Seb will stay on prime as well. Stay out." Case closed.



#1511 Marklar

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:22

So Mercedes first decided to stay out, than to pit, than to stay out and than with Hamilton comments (which could be resolved if he just sayed that Rosberg will not pit) to pit. That's so funny :clap:


Edited by Marklar, 05 June 2015 - 19:23.


#1512 pRy

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:24

Well that's a new detail we didn't know before... Mercedes told him to pit before he expressed any concern about the tyres. They then changed their minds. That's when Lewis expressed concern (having seen the pit crew out) and then they then told him to pit again.

 

How did F1 drivers survive before all of this micro management? Alonso was right.. you're flying a plane. 


Edited by pRy, 05 June 2015 - 19:25.


#1513 realracer200

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:28

what's the brake magic?



#1514 TomNokoe

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:29

The panic is palpable, it's embarrassing. You can hear his engineers voice shake.

#1515 GoldenColt

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:30

what's the brake magic?

 

Hamilton's left foot. 



#1516 rasul

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:34

http://www.formula1....r_Mercedes.html

Full radio conversation here, these people are completely clueless  :lol:

I can't believe people thought after Malaysia that the Mercs couldn't possibly be this clueless and suspected conspiracy.  :lol:  



#1517 Kalmake

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:38

why are they repeating stay positive so much?

Delta time has to stay positive under (V)SC.



#1518 robefc

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 19:41

Yeah, it does sound like they have come over all ultra positive life coach mode (!) but, as you say, they mean the delta.

#1519 pRy

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:12

Do you think "stay positive" is a code word for something or are they literally coaching him mentally?

 

There was such a tight margin involved. Had they not needed to hold for 2 seconds whilst that Sauber went by he'd have beat Vettel to the pit line and may have got Nico too.



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#1520 Loops

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:14

It was so dramatic!

Yeah, it does sound like they have come over all ultra positive life coach mode (!) but, as you say, they mean the delta.


:lol: Yeah, at first I thought Bono was being really encouraging, but then I was corrected.

Edited by Loops, 05 June 2015 - 20:19.


#1521 RubalSher

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:21

"Positive" is obviously with respect to delta times.



#1522 pRy

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:29

"Positive" is obviously with respect to delta times.

 

Ah of course!



#1523 Loops

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:30

No one seemed to have control of the bigger picture, with all the data. No clear authority. Cue discussion about what Ross Brawn would do.

#1524 ollebompa

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:40

Ross Brawn would have said: Lewis, you are staying out, and Lewis would have answered: ok


Edited by ollebompa, 05 June 2015 - 20:57.


#1525 Marklar

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:44

The interesting thing about this is how you can trust a pit wall who changed theyre opinion within less than one minute three times (from staying out to pit to staying out). I'm quite sure that they caused a lot of confusion.



#1526 Szoelloe

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 20:52

The panic is palpable, it's embarrassing. You can hear his engineers voice shake.

 

no

 

Ross Brawn would had said: Lewis, you are staying out, and Lewis would have answered: ok

 

yes



#1527 trogggy

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 21:10

Ross Brawn would have said: Lewis, you are staying out, and Lewis would have answered: ok

Because Brawn never cocked up pitstops?

Rubens might not agree with that.



#1528 Szoelloe

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 21:20

Because Brawn never cocked up pitstops?

Rubens might not agree with that.

 

blablablablabla

 

 

But JB does. "Rubens" was a highly paid doormat from May 12, 2002.



#1529 trogggy

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 21:38

blablablablabla

 

 

But JB does. "Rubens" was a highly paid doormat from May 12, 2002.

Bollocks.

 

People have a rose-tinted view of the past.

Beer tasted better, it were all fields here, Ross never cocked up.

 

If Ross had told Hamilton to stay out he would have stayed out.

If Toto / Nikki / his RE had said stay out he'd have stayed out.

The problem wasn't an awkward driver, it was a poor decision on the pit-wall. 



#1530 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 22:19

That video just makes Mercedes look and sound so amateurish. All they had to do was clearly tell Lewis that Nico wasn't pitting nor was Vettel. 



#1531 Paco

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 22:24

Finally, people see it for what it was and zero blame or relevance to lewis, which was obvious but good they released it. Good too that people how stupid the whole thing was by mgp, analysis paralysis and paranoia.

#1532 Loops

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 22:38

Bollocks.

 

People have a rose-tinted view of the past.

Beer tasted better, it were all fields here, Ross never cocked up.

 

If Ross had told Hamilton to stay out he would have stayed out.

If Toto / Nikki / his RE had said stay out he'd have stayed out.

The problem wasn't an awkward driver, it was a poor decision on the pit-wall. 

 

This is what I meant. Someone needed to be authoritative in that moment. You'd think it would be the people in charge of all the data, the ones best placed to make such an authoritative decision. But no. They chopped and changed their minds three times. Then Lewis pipes up, expressing concern based on faulty info, and no one corrects him. It's like no one was paying attention. And then after all that indecision, their timing data was wrong anyway. :drunk: :lol:  If the Ferraris can apply the pressure, Canada is going to be interesting.



#1533 trogggy

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 22:46

This is what I meant. Someone needed to be authoritative in that moment. You'd think it would be the people in charge of all the data, the ones best placed to make such an authoritative decision. But no. They chopped and changed their minds three times. Then Lewis pipes up, expressing concern based on faulty info, and no one corrects him. It's like no one was paying attention. And then after all that indecision, their timing data was wrong anyway. :drunk: :lol:  If the Ferraris can apply the pressure, Canada is going to be interesting.

The decision to pit or not changing in a short period of time actually makes sense - the situation re gaps under the vsc and safety car was changing rapidly.  Unfortunately they should have chopped and changed a fourth time.



#1534 Paco

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 00:13

And people hve short memories about Ross, he wasn't perfect and far from it in Brawn GP and Honda. His ferrari days were far better on strategy.

#1535 RubalSher

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 09:59

Now that we know confusion reigned supreme, I wonder how much of this was down to the strategy guys keeping half an eye on Nico's strategy options and getting distracted. Ross is not super human but the only feeling I get is that if he had been around, he might have had more resources focused on Lewis than Nico.



#1536 Marklar

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 10:26

Now that we know confusion reigned supreme, I wonder how much of this was down to the strategy guys keeping half an eye on Nico's strategy options and getting distracted. Ross is not super human but the only feeling I get is that if he had been around, he might have had more resources focused on Lewis than Nico.

I can't imagine that they're so stupid. If they were keeping their eyes on Nico's Strategy they would have also known that Hamilton doesn't need to pit because they have calculated for sure that Nico can't pit because Vettel would have also not pit (because of Kvyat), so it was quite easy maths.

 

I found it interesting that his race engineer seemed to overhear Hamiltons last sentence ('everyone will be on options'), otherwise he would have told him that this will not be the case unless they didn't realize it which means that the pitwal keeped their eyes neither on Nico's strategy nor on Lewis strategy.

 

What I can imagine is that with Hamilton suggesting the pit stop the pitwall though 'Oh well, we have an gap and it will secure our vicory in case Vettel pits and overtakes everyone (a bit Paranoida....) and if it doesn't worked out we will stil win this race with Nico'. You have to take into account that just the team bosses (Wolff, Lauda, Zetsche) who have nothing to do with these decisions were furious after the race. Lowe for example was pretty happy after the race. That's the problem if you have one strategy group for both drivers: They will decide the most safest way for the victory and that was with an relativly big gap to pit Hamilton but taking the risk which they didn't want to take at first and later again. They changed theyre opinion four times: On an track like Monaco this means that you shouldn't pit.....


Edited by Marklar, 06 June 2015 - 10:29.


#1537 OO7

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:03

Who decided that!  BONKERS!!! :rotfl:



#1538 FrontWing

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:05

Who decided that!  BONKERS!!! :rotfl:

Brilliant Ron, hadn't seen that before! :clap:



#1539 jcpower13

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:08

What a confusing load of messages for Lewis that was, we're staying out, nope, we're boxing, we're staying out...

*edit* Oh Toto, no Merc do not have the best strategist in the paddock, not even close.


Edited by jcpower13, 06 June 2015 - 16:14.


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#1540 FrontWing

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:14

What a confusing load of messages for Lewis that was, we're staying out, nope, we're boxing, we're staying out...

Sheer panic I think. I didn't know the DRS had failed, he really had no chance of passing Vettel.


Edited by FrontWing, 06 June 2015 - 16:14.


#1541 OO7

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:15

Brilliant Ron, hadn't seen that before! :clap:

It was very funny and even ironic given China 2007.



#1542 jcpower13

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:17

Sheer panic I think. I didn't know the DRS had failed, he really had no chance of passing Vettel.

We all thought it had failed, but never received any confirmation. Was a perfect storm for sod's law to reign supreme.



#1543 SamH123

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:17

What a confusing load of messages for Lewis that was, we're staying out, nope, we're boxing, we're staying out...

*edit* Oh Toto, no Merc do not have the best strategist in the paddock, not even close.

 

Does 'staying positive' refer to some sort of switch?

 

Otherwise I doubt Lewis needs seconds wasted being told to 'stay positive' repeatedly



#1544 OO7

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:19

Does 'staying positive' refer to some sort of switch?

 

Otherwise I doubt Lewis needs seconds wasted being told to 'stay positive' repeatedly

It is a reference to the delta time under the VSC/safety car.



#1545 SamH123

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:22

It is a reference to the delta time under the VSC/safety car.

 

ohhhh ok



#1546 FrontWing

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Posted 06 June 2015 - 16:23

Does 'staying positive' refer to some sort of switch?

 

Otherwise I doubt Lewis needs seconds wasted being told to 'stay positive' repeatedly

Really not sure. Sounds quite odd though, perhaps Lewis needs to get himself some anti-depressants instead of the positive reinforcement. :)  

 

edit..

 

It is a reference to the delta time under the VSC/safety car.  (that makes sense 007)


Edited by FrontWing, 06 June 2015 - 16:25.