Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Strategy Group 'has no strategy' - Lowdon


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 FullThrottleF1

FullThrottleF1
  • Member

  • 3,449 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 28 May 2015 - 14:31

Good ol' Lowdon telling it how it is: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/119204

 

:up:



Advertisement

#2 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 28 May 2015 - 14:55

there's about 10 different agendas being discussed... no one in the higher tier wants to give away hard fought advantage to minnows...

he's looking for a communist style resolution...

he can't expect the teams giving up their prominence to help lesser teams to be an easy vote...

maybe he should try to get some sponsorship rather than depend on handouts from more prominent teams and whining to the media...

#3 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 17,074 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 May 2015 - 15:04

there's about 10 different agendas being discussed... no one in the higher tier wants to give away hard fought advantage to minnows...

he's looking for a communist style resolution...

he can't expect the teams giving up their prominence to help lesser teams to be an easy vote...

maybe he should try to get some sponsorship rather than depend on handouts from more prominent teams and whining to the media...

 

He's still right in pointing out that they have no strategies.



#4 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 15,143 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 28 May 2015 - 15:12

there's about 10 different agendas being discussed... no one in the higher tier wants to give away hard fought advantage to minnows...
 

It's all very well carrying on with this "I only want the big teams" ideology, but I think you'll find there are only 4 or 5 of those kind, one is threatening to pull out unless it's competitive (logically if only "big" teams compete, one would obviously be last and heading for the nearest exit eventually) and another is the product of a giant marketing budget - only 3 exist therefore as F1 racing teams as their core business and in my experience, 6 cars a good race does not make.

 

If you think Daimler Benz holding a board meeting and signing off a billion quid to go F1 racing is hard-fought, in the sense that you accuse Manor of not indulging, you couldn't be more wrong. What you're actually waiting for is a major manufacturer or mammoth selling fmcg product to come along and buy Manor and invest a billion dollars into it - I'd like to avail you to the facts that this is quite unlikely.

 

GL is making a simple point. The SG looks like a headless chicken. What is the overall strategy for F1? He's not the only person saying it and he's not wrong just because he works for a small team you don't appreciate. 



#5 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 12,546 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 28 May 2015 - 15:39

They do not have even the faintest clue of what to do.

 

The "Strategy Group", what a misnomer.



#6 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 43,951 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 28 May 2015 - 15:39

Don't think F1 doesn't want to keep it that way.

#7 Fisico54

Fisico54
  • Member

  • 1,008 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 28 May 2015 - 15:54

Can't see how anybody could disagree with Lowdon



#8 Rob

Rob
  • Member

  • 9,223 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 28 May 2015 - 16:20

Have they stated what their goals and objectives are? And if so, what metrics they will use to determine success or failure?

 

It's a thin illusion of strategy. A loose collection of people who are enthusiastic, but that's about it. Strategy needs planning, and I'm not seeing much planning.



#9 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 28 May 2015 - 16:30

Can't see how anybody could disagree with Lowdon

I haven't read any disagreement.. but there's reasons for the lack of direction.. too sad that he's bothered by their slow move to help the helpless... too many agendas.. that's why NASCAR'S "beneficial dictatorship" works.. they can cut through the crap and do what's best without having to vote among people who have different thoughts on the matter...

there's a lot of.. "my house is in order.. why should I help the needy" going on... I don't blame them...

#10 giddy69

giddy69
  • New Member

  • 14 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 28 May 2015 - 17:24

F1 Strategy Group - it's 3 lies for the price of 1.

It doesn't include all of Formula 1.

It doesn't have a strategy.

It isn't a group - more a bunch of warring factions.

#11 ninetyzero

ninetyzero
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 28 May 2015 - 17:28

And in other news: new evidence has emerged that bears may defecate in the woods and The Pope refuses to comment on 'those Catholic rumours'... :stoned:

 

The F1 strategy group is about as much use as non-alcoholic beer.



#12 Alfisti

Alfisti
  • Member

  • 39,658 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 May 2015 - 17:38

 

The F1 strategy group is about as much use as non-alcoholic beer.

 

i dunno man, the mrs drinks the Becks no alcohol stuff when she's preggo. 



#13 garagetinkerer

garagetinkerer
  • Member

  • 3,620 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 28 May 2015 - 17:40

F1 Strategy Group - it's 3 lies for the price of 1.

It doesn't include all of Formula 1.

It doesn't have a strategy.

It isn't a group - more a bunch of warring factions.

Teams were always trying to gain an upper hand with new regulations... nothing new. It is not that others didn't have money, but it was more easier to get Ferrari to stop using their track. A lot of things go on in the background.

 

Racing in F1 is what it is. Of-course there are people who want various things, and while some gimmickry will fix things temporarily, but the band-aid approach is not enough. You can't make everyone happy, so what you do is make your paying customers happy. Ecclestone  did that, and F1 grew, and may be they should simply go back to that approach and wave a finger or two at general direction of those who wouldn't care about the sport, beyond merely making observations on it for their own gains.



#14 EthanM

EthanM
  • Member

  • 4,819 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 28 May 2015 - 17:43

Sycophants. The strategy group did, after all, unanimously agree that ... drivers shouldn't change their helmet designs inseason (that AFAIK is the only thing they have decided)

 

If that's not moving F1 forward I don't know what is.



#15 ninetyzero

ninetyzero
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 28 May 2015 - 17:54

i dunno man, the mrs drinks the Becks no alcohol stuff when she's preggo. 

 

Never saw the point in the stuff, why not just have some fruit juice? It's much nicer.

 

And just to keep this on topic; Sniff petrol sums it up quite nicely I think; http://sniffpetrol.c...ecides-sod-all/



#16 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,037 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 28 May 2015 - 18:11

there's about 10 different agendas being discussed... no one in the higher tier wants to give away hard fought advantage to minnows...

he's looking for a communist style resolution...

he can't expect the teams giving up their prominence to help lesser teams to be an easy vote...

maybe he should try to get some sponsorship rather than depend on handouts from more prominent teams and whining to the media...

He's doing the same thing everyone else is doing.  His trying to protect the interests of the team and advance their capability as well.    Did you read the article?  He's not asking for handouts for his team.  He's stating, quite the obvious, that the strategy group has yet to come up with anything even resembling a strategy.


Edited by loki, 28 May 2015 - 18:17.


#17 wrcva

wrcva
  • Member

  • 1,254 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 May 2015 - 21:02

With Bernie and Todt having 6 votes each, and teams having 1 vote each (SF, Merc, McLaren, RBR, FW, FI) this may get worse before it gets any better... 

 

Brawn was the master of this stuff.  Too bad he is not around anymore.  



#18 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,165 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 May 2015 - 23:07

Someone in need of strategy? Someone get on the phone ASAP to Whitmarsh and his trusty sidekick, Sam Michael.



#19 Redback

Redback
  • Member

  • 1,283 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 29 May 2015 - 00:10

Never saw the point in the stuff, why not just have some fruit juice? It's much nicer.

 

And just to keep this on topic; Sniff petrol sums it up quite nicely I think; http://sniffpetrol.c...ecides-sod-all/

 

NSFW!

 

 

https://youtu.be/v-dYV3oA3YA?t=1m29s



Advertisement

#20 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 13,725 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 29 May 2015 - 00:28

Moving too far in one direction, panicking and then taking a sharp U turn, is not the action of an accomplished strategy group, if you ask me. Headless chicken seems about right to me. 



#21 Tsarwash

Tsarwash
  • Member

  • 13,725 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 29 May 2015 - 00:30

maybe he should try to get some sponsorship rather than depend on handouts from more prominent teams and whining to the media...

That's just bollocks. Even Ferrari have struggled to get decent sponsorship in the last few years. Nobody really wants to put their money behind F1 these days. There are good reasons why. 



#22 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 7,251 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 29 May 2015 - 01:10

That's just bollocks. Even Ferrari have struggled to get decent sponsorship in the last few years. Nobody really wants to put their money behind F1 these days. There are good reasons why.

Not just f1... Most racing actually. ROI is just not there and corporate shills need to maximize profit to keep their jobs so spending hundreds of millions just to lose and flop doesn't work in the 2015 worldwide economy.

They took the sole out with drivers all corporate spokesman ship, cars perceived to easy to drive and artificial racing ie DRS.

The biggest was the broadcasters who complained about stuff like lack of passing lap in n out and cars being stuck behind others and unknown fuel levels making them look bad in play by play and lay person just having enough of it.

Impossible for f1 to have a consensus decision on direction, only dictatorship can work. Too many sheds all with different recipes all that suck,

Edited by Paco, 29 May 2015 - 01:11.


#23 taran

taran
  • Member

  • 4,425 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:16

he's looking for a communist style resolution...

 

Funny, how the have's always accuse the have not's of being communists when they get uppity.



#24 LuckyStrike1

LuckyStrike1
  • Member

  • 8,681 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:19

Well, the group have manage to make one decision that was taken into effect. Banning drivers from changing helmet liveries. So clearly they know what they are doing. 



#25 FerrariV12

FerrariV12
  • Member

  • 934 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:33

 

Well, the group have manage to make one decision that was taken into effect. Banning drivers from changing helmet liveries. So clearly they know what they are doing. 

 

 

Don't forget the silly MotoGP-esque driver numbers too. Brilliant piece of strategy that was.


Edited by FerrariV12, 29 May 2015 - 09:34.


#26 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 6,829 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 29 May 2015 - 09:38

They don't just rock up for a chat. The problem isn't that they don't have any strategy, it's that everyone involved has their own, private strategy?

#27 taran

taran
  • Member

  • 4,425 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 29 May 2015 - 11:01

They don't just rock up for a chat. The problem isn't that they don't have any strategy, it's that everyone involved has their own, private strategy?

 

You give them too much credit.

 

I see no signs of any team strategy. They simply respond to outside events when not actually asleep at the wheel.



#28 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 29 May 2015 - 11:17

the strategy group has yet to come up with anything even resembling a strategy.

yeah... I can read..

I gave reasons why it's not happening at the pace HE would prefer... He needs to worry about finding funding himself, and not make public comments about the 'conference for the needy' not going to his liking...

#29 oetzi

oetzi
  • Member

  • 6,829 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 29 May 2015 - 11:40

You give them too much credit.

I see no signs of any team strategy. They simply respond to outside events when not actually asleep at the wheel.

As one example, Mercedes currently have a strategy of 'don't change anything, we're winning'.

It might not be complex, but it is a strategy.

And that strategy is roughly replicated by all the teams, as their knowledge of the regulations is largely what gives them 'value' as companies - that's why you almost always see tweaks as opposed to changes.

#30 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

HuddersfieldTerrier1986
  • Member

  • 2,712 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 29 May 2015 - 12:03

Lowdon is talking rubbish, as of course they have a strategy. That strategy is very obvious to everyone. It's to make themselves seem important while trying not to admit that they can't even agree on the sandwich fillings or what drinks to provide for their meetings, let alone anything good for F1.

 

In reality, Lowdon is right. It's just a bunch of people who have different agendas who can't agree on anything. I don't even know why they have a strategy group to be honest, least of all one that involves the teams, yet only includes some of them rather than all of them. As Horner said, rather than them trying to come up with ideas, they're better off leaving the rules in the hands of those in charge of the sport, rather than the teams, who can probably barely even agree between them how many sandwiches everyone in the strategy group meetings is allowed to have, and being told "these are the rules, either sign up or go home"



#31 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 17,074 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2015 - 13:21

As one example, Mercedes currently have a strategy of 'don't change anything, we're winning'.

It might not be complex, but it is a strategy.

And that strategy is roughly replicated by all the teams, as their knowledge of the regulations is largely what gives them 'value' as companies - that's why you almost always see tweaks as opposed to changes.

 

That stragegy is indeed good, but their actions when the virtual safety car came out in Monaco were not in line with that stragegy.

 

The trouble with the Stragegy Group is that they just make actions without having any strategy to follow.



#32 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 29 May 2015 - 14:50

That's just bollocks. Even Ferrari have struggled to get decent sponsorship in the last few years...

speaking of bollocks, Ferrari doesn't look for sponsors... Marlboro does, and they:

A. have not had trouble
B. re-upped to sponsor again, even though their name is NO WHERE on the car... evidently, their arrangement is working OK for them..

take a look at the STR's.. they have dozens of small sponsors, and they have no history of front running..

You don't have to have multi - zillion $$ sponsors... associate sponsors can be found...

#33 Buttoneer

Buttoneer
  • Admin

  • 19,094 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 29 May 2015 - 16:33

Lets not turn this into a discussion about how awesome Ferrari is. The discussion is about Lowden's comments so please stick to the topic. Thanks.

#34 ninetyzero

ninetyzero
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 29 May 2015 - 17:21

 

My thoughts exactly! Australians have a way of phrasing things that I just can't help but like.

 

 

As one example, Mercedes currently have a strategy of 'don't change anything, we're winning'.

It might not be complex, but it is a strategy.

And that strategy is roughly replicated by all the teams, as their knowledge of the regulations is largely what gives them 'value' as companies - that's why you almost always see tweaks as opposed to changes.

 

And this is why asking teams to write the rules is utterly pointless.

 

 

speaking of bollocks, Ferrari doesn't look for sponsors... Marlboro does, and they:

A. have not had trouble
B. re-upped to sponsor again, even though their name is NO WHERE on the car... evidently, their arrangement is working OK for them..

take a look at the STR's.. they have dozens of small sponsors, and they have no history of front running..

You don't have to have multi - zillion $$ sponsors... associate sponsors can be found...

 

Yeah you're right, there's tons of sponsors out there in this booming economy of ours, especially for a back of the grid team who get almost no screen time like Manor, Manor obviously just can't be bothered to look for them. :stoned: "No thanks Big Corp INC, we don't need your money, we'd rather just live of handouts from Bernie or something". Lord give me strength...



#35 Petroltorque

Petroltorque
  • Member

  • 2,856 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 May 2015 - 17:57

It is a 'Strategy Group' in name only. The grouping is Ecclestone's vanity project. As has been said why would you allow the teams to write the rules of the sport, there is too much vested interest for that to succeed.
I suppose Ecclestone had thought that by buying off the top 5 teams and putting them in charge of rules making they would agree to everything he said.
It's pretty clear now that governing F1 has moved beyond the remit of one man. It requires experts in media, marketting and technology overseen by a competent CEO. None of those are attributes one associates with one Bernard Charles Ecclestone.

#36 kevinracefan

kevinracefan
  • Member

  • 2,729 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 29 May 2015 - 18:52

My thoughts exactly! Australians have a way of phrasing things that I just can't help but like.
 
 
 
And this is why asking teams to write the rules is utterly pointless.
 
 
 
Yeah you're right, there's tons of sponsors out there in this booming economy of ours, especially for a back of the grid team who get almost no screen time like Manor, Manor obviously just can't be bothered to look for them. :stoned: "No thanks Big Corp INC, we don't need your money, we'd rather just live of handouts from Bernie or something". Lord give me strength...

they apparently can't afford to paint the car different... do they have any sales people on staff??

STR is closer to the back of the field than the front...yet they have dozens..

There is no spin for that, no matter how much you wish there was...

#37 Wingcommander

Wingcommander
  • Member

  • 1,469 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 29 May 2015 - 19:04

The purpose of strategy group was to make sure that the commercially important teams commit to the sport. That way CVC can make more money when they sell it / do the stock flotation thingy.



#38 Fisico54

Fisico54
  • Member

  • 1,008 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 29 May 2015 - 19:08

they apparently can't afford to paint the car different... do they have any sales people on staff??

STR is closer to the back of the field than the front...yet they have dozens..

There is no spin for that, no matter how much you wish there was...

Toro Rosso have 3 - Nova, Sapinda and Cepsa. Sauber have 2 who aren't tied to their drivers

#39 ninetyzero

ninetyzero
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 29 May 2015 - 19:17

STR is closer to the back of the field than the front...yet they have dozens..
 

 

You talk about STR like they are still Minardi. STR are owned by Red Bull, being owned by a high profile multi-national company that makes bazillions in profits every year probably helps bring in sponsors, don't you think?


Edited by ninetyzero, 29 May 2015 - 19:17.


Advertisement

#40 Wuzak

Wuzak
  • Member

  • 8,402 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 30 May 2015 - 02:03

The purpose of strategy group was to make sure that the commercially important teams commit to the sport. That way CVC can make more money when they sell it / do the stock flotation thingy.

 

I would so like the FIA to find a loophole and break the lease after CVC commit to the stock float and before shares go on sale (if that is possible).



#41 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,919 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 30 May 2015 - 07:18

there's about 10 different agendas being discussed... no one in the higher tier wants to give away hard fought advantage to minnows...

he's looking for a communist style resolution...

I could just snarkily point out that you mean "revolution" but I'm not going to do that. Instead I'm going to decry what I regard as the idiotic and utterly thoughtless use of the "communist" epithet.

Oh no, they want change - my God, they're COMMUNISTS!

Seriously, drop this McCarthyite shite. Lowdon is not a Communist. He's a Conservative voting entrepreneur who has been involved in the management of an efficient small racing operation for twenty years.

The Strategy Group is utterly non-transparent. It is designed to exclude the lower half of the grid. Its apparent aim is to either make the lower teams become customers of the larger ones or else make way for others who will. Lowdon and Fernley are quite right to point this out and to decry it because it amounts to an anti-competitive cartel. There is nothing "free market" about that at all. Quite the reverse.

And who, apart from the big teams, benefits? CVC and Ecclestone, primarily. I know we're all meant to regard these peopel as "wealth-creators" whilst thoughtlessly sucking back Starbucks coffees but I'm afraid the more appropriate term for such individuals in this case is "leech".

There is precisely nothing communist about that whatsoever. Unless you're going to point me to the section of Das Kapital that talks about the F1 Strategy Group owning the means of production. Which you can't.

Edited by wj_gibson, 30 May 2015 - 07:27.


#42 learningtobelost

learningtobelost
  • Member

  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 30 May 2015 - 08:07

yeah... I can read..

I gave reasons why it's not happening at the pace HE would prefer... He needs to worry about finding funding himself, and not make public comments about the 'conference for the needy' not going to his liking...

 

So the fact that his team is struggling invalidates his right to voice an opinion? 

 



#43 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 7,292 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 30 May 2015 - 09:07

The only strategy the "F1 Strategy Group" needs is to disband.

It's a frigging joke that the big teams get to decide what the rules are and the smaller teams get no say in it.

Do Man Utd or Chelsea get private votes on Football regulations? No of course not, that would be a ridiculous situation.

Edited by johnmhinds, 30 May 2015 - 09:07.


#44 ninetyzero

ninetyzero
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 30 May 2015 - 11:16

I could just snarkily point out that you mean "revolution" but I'm not going to do that. Instead I'm going to decry what I regard as the idiotic and utterly thoughtless use of the "communist" epithet.

Oh no, they want change - my God, they're COMMUNISTS!

Seriously, drop this McCarthyite shite. Lowdon is not a Communist. He's a Conservative voting entrepreneur who has been involved in the management of an efficient small racing operation for twenty years.

The Strategy Group is utterly non-transparent. It is designed to exclude the lower half of the grid. Its apparent aim is to either make the lower teams become customers of the larger ones or else make way for others who will. Lowdon and Fernley are quite right to point this out and to decry it because it amounts to an anti-competitive cartel. There is nothing "free market" about that at all. Quite the reverse.

And who, apart from the big teams, benefits? CVC and Ecclestone, primarily. I know we're all meant to regard these peopel as "wealth-creators" whilst thoughtlessly sucking back Starbucks coffees but I'm afraid the more appropriate term for such individuals in this case is "leech".

There is precisely nothing communist about that whatsoever. Unless you're going to point me to the section of Das Kapital that talks about the F1 Strategy Group owning the means of production. Which you can't.

 

lebowski_pacifism.jpg

 

My buddies died face down in the dirt in 'nam so you could enjoy F1!



#45 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,919 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 30 May 2015 - 11:26

Ha ha ha!