50 replies to this topic

[Jimisgod]

I was watching a replay of Mansell dropping a wheel on the paint at a wet Monaco in 1984 and losing the race that looked to be his, and wondered; what other instances of this have there been of drivers losing control, or losing the engine, while in a very good position to take win #1?

 

I recall it happened a number of times to Amon. Teo Fabi at Austria 1983? Derek Warwick at Brazil 1984?

 

Of course this isn't limited to F1, just the driver's first (likely) win in a series.

[E1pix]

As fill-in for the late Ronnie Peterson, killed at Monza and Mario Andretti's Lotus 79 teammate, Jean-Pierre Jarier led every lap from pole at the first Canadian GP to be held in Montreal, 1978. He trashed the field by a good second a lap, but was sidelined by an oil leak late in the race.

It was his and he earned it, but sadly "Jumper's" first win never happened.

[np93]

I remember Kimi Raikkonen at the 2002 French Grand Prix, leading in the closing stages while being hunted by Michael Schumacher, only to have a half spin on the oil left by McNish's Toyota. Gave Schumi his 5th title if I recall.

[sabrejet]

Bjorn Wirdheim at Monaco (year escapes me): premature celebration and priceless face on the subsequent second step of the podium. I think Heidfeld may have clinched an unlikely win this time.

 

Anyone recall this one?

 

Edit: 2003 by the looks of Google.

Edited by sabrejet, 31 May 2015 - 07:49.

[Vitesse2]

JR Hildebrand, Indy 500 2011.

 

 

Arguably, although he wasn't leading, Takuma Sato the following year.

 

[jimjimjeroo]

Hill Hockenheim 96 engine blew giving win to Berger

Hill Monaco 96 engine blew giving the eventual win to Panis

[Collombin]

Hill Hockenheim 96 engine blew giving win to Berger
Hill Monaco 96 engine blew giving the eventual win to Panis

Hill was already a race winner though.

Johansson Imola 1985?

I'm guessing there will be countless examples - so much so that I'm trying to think of races where it happened to more than one driver!

[Risil]

Can think of a few if we're doing Indy. Alex Tagliani lost at least three first wins in 2000, at Rio, Road America and Homestead (his first CART race!). Greg Moore lost a decent lead to mechanical trouble late on at Rio in 1996. In 1997 Mark Blundell and Mauricio Gugelmin lost it on the final lap at Belle Isle, having tried to make a one-stop strategy work around the street course. They would both win later on that year, and after that never again. Eddie Cheever lost the 1995 Nazareth race in similar circumstances. Max Papis also ran out of fuel on the last lap of the 1999 Michigan 500. Tony Kanaan, another Billy-No-Wins, swept by to take the victory.

 

In 1996 Bryan Herta was overtaken by Alex Zanardi on the last lap at Laguna Seca in extraordinary circumstances. Then a year later at Vancouver he was punted out of the lead by a charging (and one lap down) Zanardi in barely less extraordinary circumstances.

 

Marco Andretti lost it at the line to Sam Hornish at the 2007 Indy 500. 

Edited by Risil, 31 May 2015 - 19:21.

[Risil]

I'm guessing there will be countless examples - so much so that I'm trying to think of races where it happened to more than one driver!

 

It seemed like half the field was on for a certain win at the Nurburgring in 1999. Fisichella and Ralf Schumacher would've been first-timers, and I can't remember how close Rubens actually got in the Stewart.

Edited by Risil, 31 May 2015 - 09:12.

[Collombin]

I think Patrese and Depailler at Kyalami in 1978 would qualify too.

[Michael Ferner]

Patrese and Arrows, Kyalami '78 - a fairy tale turning into a nightmare.

[Michael Ferner]

Again, I'm beaten by another poster, but Detroit '97 and PacWest leading 1-2 into the final lap must've been the ultimate heart breaker!

Johnny Sawyer led the first 92 of 100 laps at the Illinois State Fair in 1934, and never again got even close to winning at this level, although car owner Joe Lencki did.

Bill Vukovich at the 1952 Indy 500, Ralph de Palma at the 1912 event. Tony Gulotta and Jimmy Gleason in 1928.

[Gary Davies]

Couple of young shavers here referring to "Hill". Of course, they are referring to Damon Hill. 

 

Well actually, Damon had a dad with the same surname who I'm told was pretty handy with a racing car.    And he qualifies for this post with his storming but ultimately unsuccessful effort in the 1960 British Grand Prix at Silverstone. In brief, stalled on the grid, got going last and took the lead from World Champ Brabham on lap 55 (out of 77). Held it, despite brake problems with the peculiar single rear brake disc on the BRM P48, until lap 72, when he spun at Copse, under pressure from Brabham. 

 

In his book, Life at the limit, Graham Hill, wrote: "It was a tremendous disappointment to me and I remember walking back to the pits feeling pretty dejected; but I got a great reception from the crowd which helped to disperse the gloom."

Edited by Gary Davies, 31 May 2015 - 12:50.

[Collombin]

Rindt (infamously) then Amon, 1969 Spanish GP.

[Michael Ferner]

More from o'er the pond:

Tommy Milton at Tacoma 1916, Norm Batten at Altoona 1926, Russ Snowberger at Syracuse 1928, Sam Ross at Syracuse 1931, Mauri Rose at Indy 1934, Paul Russo at Syracue in 1949, Bill Schindler at Sacramento in 1950, although not strictly in the sense of this thread since they simply lost the lead near the end and finished second.

Bob McDonogh, Laurel 1925 - he actually took the flag, the flowers and the kiss by the race queen, but a quarter past nine in the evening the scorers gave the win to Pete de Paolo. McDonogh was so mad, he won the next two races. Not so Freddie Winnai, who was the 1929 Syracuse winner for a couple of hours, but never again came close. Sam Hanks led only one lap at Bay Meadows in 1950, and although it was the last one he didn't win because the chequered flag had been shown one lap early in error! A similar thing happened to Allen Heath at Detroit in 1953, when the race was stopped, restarted, stopped again and finally abandoned in a chaos of dust and accidents, with the standings reverting to the first stoppage after it was found that all the cars had been worked on during the intermission, and protests were likely to arise.

Deacon Litz at Indy in 1929, Cliff Bergere at Altoona the same year. George Connor at Milwaukee in 1939, Duke Nalon at Syracuse a week later. Walt Brown at Atlanta in 1947, and again at Cleveland the next week, then Duke Dinsmore at Milwaukee, home race for his (winless) owner. Emil Andres at Goshen and Milwaukee, then Nalon again in Texas - 1947 was a tough year! Johnny Mantz and Johnnie Parsons at Milwaukee in 1948, Mel Hansen at Du Quoin - all of them winners before the year was out. Troy Ruttman in his maiden Champ Car race at Arlington Downs in 1949. Rodger Ward at Milwaukee in 1953, then he did a McDonogh. Bob Sweikert at Syracuse later that year, just a fortnight before his first win. Bob Veith and Al Keller at Atlanta in 1956. Rocky Moran, like Ruttman in his very first race, at Watkins Glen in 1981.

[Michael Ferner]

Kelly Petillo at Ascot Sep 4, 1931 and Al Gordon at San Jose Oct 16, 1932, both had a AAA Pacific Coast Championship win within reach years before they finally broke through. Jack Buxton at San Jose Feb 17 and Ascot Apr 28 led from the start until crashing out twice in 1929, but never won. Brad Doty's transmission failed with the Gold Cup Race of Champions win already in sight in 1984, but checking I found he'd already won a number of minor WoO races before. But losing a big one, like Mark Kinser at Knoxville in 1990, must be especially hard.

[Claudio Navonne]

Carlos Reutemann, Argentine GP 1974. The car ran out of gas with two laps to go (at least that was the official version), having been leading from lap three, after having started from 6th place on the grid, gaining two places at the start,James Hunt spun in  1st lap, and then went to Fittipaldi and Peterson then. He also was a big surprise because it was not then the Brabham team one of the top teams.
I was a sorry witness of the race that day. But we left the racetrack with the certainty that the Lole was a top driver in F1 and BT44, a car for history.

[john winfield]

As fill-in for the late Ronnie Peterson, killed at Monza and Mario Andretti's Lotus 79 teammate, Jean-Pierre Jarier led every lap from pole at the first Canadian GP to be held in Montreal, 1978. He trashed the field by a good second a lap, but was sidelined by an oil leak late in the race.

It was his and he earned it, but sadly "Jumper's" first win never happened.

And JPJ had been equally unlucky in Brazil, in 1975, dominating the race in a works Shadow.

[MCS]

He had won pole in Argentina as well, but didn't even make the start - so that doesn't count.

 

But back to Amon.  How many instances were there?

[FerrariV12]

Alesi at Monza 94 (heard a story that he was so pissed off he departed the circuit in his road car for home doing 3 figure speeds en route)

[JacnGille]

Patrese and Arrows, Kyalami '78 - a fairy tale turning into a nightmare.

I remember this one as if it was yesterday.

[Dick Dastardly]

Hill Hockenheim 96 engine blew giving win to Berger

Hill Monaco 96 engine blew giving the eventual win to Panis

Hill 93 British GP @ Silverstone....engine let go, so Damon popped into the BRDC Clubhouse for a drink before returning to the pits....

...then he had tyre problems at Hockenheim before finally clinching that elusive win at the Hungaroring

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 31 May 2015 - 14:57.

[Dick Dastardly]

1969 British GP.....Sir JYS & Jochen Rindt battling it out, looking like the latter would win then Sir JYS noticed Rindt's rear wing was catching a tyre, so he indicated to Jochen something was amiss, whereupon JR pitted for a new wheel, eventually finishing 4th....

[Gary Davies]

I suppose you could say that "...or losing the engine, while in a very good position to take win #1" applies to Sir Stirling himself!

 

Monaco 1955. Fangio out at lap 49, then Moss lead comfortably until the valve gear broke at lap 81. Would have been his first F1 championship win.

[RStock]

Alesi at Monza 94 (heard a story that he was so pissed off he departed the circuit in his road car for home doing 3 figure speeds en route)

Story is he was still in his firesuit. Also he was stopped by police who took pity on him and let him go on his way, knowing who he was and what had happened.

[john aston]

Couple of young shavers here referring to "Hill". Of course, they are referring to Damon Hill. 

 

Well actually, Damon had a dad with the same surname who I'm told was pretty handy with a racing car.    And he qualifies for this post with his storming but ultimately unsuccessful effort in the 1960 British Grand Prix at Silverstone. In brief, stalled on the grid, got going last and took the lead from World Champ Brabham on lap 55 (out of 77). Held it, despite brake problems with the peculiar single rear brake disc on the BRM P48, until lap 72, when he spun at Copse, under pressure from Brabham. 

 

In his book, Life at the limit, Graham Hill, wrote: "It was a tremendous disappointment to me and I remember walking back to the pits feeling pretty dejected; but I got a great reception from the crowd which helped to disperse the gloom."

 

 

A little patronising I think. Young shavers indeed ...

 

I doubt if anybody guilty of being a younger enthusiast on this forum is unaware of Hill pere. But if one is referring to Hill '96 it sure ain't going to be Graham and if it's Hill '64 I am not sure Damon would quite  have reached the pedals....   

[john winfield]

He had won pole in Argentina as well, but didn't even make the start - so that doesn't count.

 

But back to Amon.  How many instances were there?

Quite a few, sadly.  Clermont-Ferrand 1972 was one of his very best drives, before and after the puncture.

[Risil]

Couple of young shavers here referring to "Hill". Of course, they are referring to Damon Hill.

 

This thread started in Racing Comments. We measure time from the opposite starting point there. 

Edited by Risil, 31 May 2015 - 19:06.

[PayasYouRace]

Hill Hockenheim 96 engine blew giving win to Berger
 

 

Surprised you haven't been corrected on this yet. You got it backwards. Berger's engine blew giving the win to Hill.

[Risil]

And it still doesn't count! We're looking for debut wins!

[Michael Ferner]

Surprised you haven't been corrected on this yet. You got it backwards. Berger's engine blew giving the win to Hill.

Thanks for pointing this out - I had a feeling it was the other way round, but couldn't be bothered to look it up.

[Michael Ferner]

And it still doesn't count! We're looking for debut wins...

... that didn't happen!

[PayasYouRace]

And it still doesn't count! We're looking for debut wins!

 

I know. But I think it had to be pointed out.

 

Now Mika Hakkinen at the British Grand Prix in 1997 is a good one. Leading late on when his engine blew.

 

Also I've heard that Martin Brundle was looking good for a win in Canada in 1992. Looking at the lap chart he never reached the lead but it was probably his best chance at a win.

[john winfield]

Monaco 1968.  Johnny Servoz-Gavin on his way to a first grand prix win until a broken driveshaft/accident robbed him of victory.....

 

OK, he led the first three laps. The Matra did look good though.

[garoidb]

Gilles Villeneuve colliding with Clay Reggazoni while leading the US Grand Prix West at Long Beach in 1978 would qualify, I think. 

 

Link: 

Edited by garoidb, 31 May 2015 - 20:16.

[chr1s]

Keke Rosberg Zolder 1982?

[Dick Dastardly]

1973 Season.....Ronnie Peterson in JPS.......took him till round 8, French GP, to finally nail a win. In previous races he'd often been on Pole and/or had the fastest lap yet fate intervened to ensure he didn't win. Even on his home track [Anderstorp for the Swedish GP], Ronnie had pole, led most of the race, only tyre problems a couple of laps from the end let Denny Hulme past to win

 

Mentioning Anderstorp.....are there any Scandinavian circuits currently capable of hosting a GP. There've been Swedish GP winners, Finnish World Champs, current Finnish, Swedish & Danish [Magnussen] drivers yet no Scandinavian GP for getting on for 40 years....

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 01 June 2015 - 15:23.

[hogstar]

As fill-in for the late Ronnie Peterson, killed at Monza and Mario Andretti's Lotus 79 teammate, Jean-Pierre Jarier led every lap from pole at the first Canadian GP to be held in Montreal, 1978. He trashed the field by a good second a lap, but was sidelined by an oil leak late in the race.

It was his and he earned it, but sadly "Jumper's" first win never happened.

 

Although the Lotus '79 was (almost) in a different league, Jarier was very quick when he was in the mood, though he was never in the mood quite enough 

[byrkus]

John Love @ Kyalami 1967.

 

Andrea de Cesaris @ Spa 1983.

[lotuspoweredbyford]

My apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I thought of Alex Tagliani at Rio in 2000 right away.

[dbltop]

How about Jacques first GP, an oil leak forced him to slow and let Damon through.

[KWSN - DSM]

De Cesaris streaking away from everyone at Spa in an Alfa Romeo 1983. only first 18 laps but still something. And last laps led by Alfa Romeo ever.

 

 

[Michael Ferner]

Pietro Bordino at the 1922 Italian GP, and his former chauffeur Vincenzo Lanica several times, iirc.

[chr1s]

Gilles Villeneuve at Long beach 1978, although I can't remember how far into the race he was when he tripped over Regazzoni.

[sjakie]

I was watching a replay of Mansell dropping a wheel on the paint at a wet Monaco in 1984 and losing the race that looked to be his, and wondered; what other instances of this have there been of drivers losing control, or losing the engine, while in a very good position to take win #1?

 

I recall it happened a number of times to Amon. Teo Fabi at Austria 1983? Derek Warwick at Brazil 1984?

 

Of course this isn't limited to F1, just the driver's first (likely) win in a series.

Teo Fabi drove CART in 83.

 

PacWest, Detroit 1997 was the first one I could think of but I've been beaten twice I noticed

 

De Cesaris was about to take the lead at Spa 1991 when his engine went...

 

Indy 1995: Vasser leading, in the wall, Pruett leading, in the wall, Goodyear leading, passes a pacecar and DSQ

Oh wait a minute, he had already won the Michigan 500 twice

 

Not a win but on his way to a suberb second place: the Brun run Porsche (Pareja, Larrauri and a third driver I can't remember) in the 1990 Le Mans 24  hrs. That car was really old and outdated, it retired from a fabulous second place 15 minutes from the flag. The Jaguar then coming second didn't match the distance it had run.

[KWSN - DSM]

Teo Fabi drove CART in 83.

 

PacWest, Detroit 1997 was the first one I could think of but I've been beaten twice I noticed

 

De Cesaris was about to take the lead at Spa 1991 when his engine went...

 

Indy 1995: Vasser leading, in the wall, Pruett leading, in the wall, Goodyear leading, passes a pacecar and DSQ

Oh wait a minute, he had already won the Michigan 500 twice

 

Not a win but on his way to a suberb second place: the Brun run Porsche (Pareja, Larrauri and a third driver I can't remember) in the 1990 Le Mans 24  hrs. That car was really old and outdated, it retired from a fabulous second place 15 minutes from the flag. The Jaguar then coming second didn't match the distance it had run.

 

This one... It was heartbreaking watching Oscar standing next to the car, pulled of the track - failing memory say Arnage - Were it even classified, is there not an insane rule that if you are not running you are no classified?

 

[opplock]

The 3rd driver was Walter Brun. You're right it was a superb performance. I remember the commentators assuming that Larrauri was driving throughout Sunday not believing that Pareja and Brun were capable of maintaining the car's pace. The 2nd place Jaguar did complete 355 laps, the Brun Porsche 353 which would have left them in 3rd place under F1 rules.

 

Despite being delighted by the Jaguar win I have never left a circuit feeling so gutted for a team's misfortune.    

[opplock]

Oscar? The record books state that Jesus Pareja was driving at the time. That is also my recollection on the day. 

[KWSN - DSM]

Oscar? The record books state that Jesus Pareja was driving at the time. That is also my recollection on the day. 

 

As already said - failing memory    now that you say Jesus I think sort of jiggled it, and sound correct. Just checked, classified DNF 353 laps, did they not have the whole team out there on the other side of the barrier assisting Jesus in possibly getting it running again?

 

 

So sad

 

   

[Les]

Honorary mention must go to Brambilla of course even if he doesn't quite qualify under the criteria of this thread!