89 replies to this topic

[Mohican]

According to autosport, Bernie wants to revert to FOM & FIA (meaning him and Jean Todt) making all decisions - thereby killing the Strategy Group.

As usual, he has the support of Christian Horner .

 

With 6 votes for FOM, 6 votes for FIA and 6x1 votes for the big teams, I assume this means a done deal, particularly if RBR is on board.

 

Interesting; sit tight for the next chapte. Customer cars, etc - here we come.

[FullThrottleF1]

I agree that that the teams should have no say, however I also think the Bernie should be kept as far away from the rulebook as possible.

[Mohican]

Agree. It is the FIA world Championship, hence the FIA should make the rules. The commercial rights should not rule...

[FullThrottleF1]

Agree. It is the FIA world Championship, hence the FIA should make the rules. The commercial rights should not rule...

 

Yep here come the artifical wets races, customers cars and more super duper points extravaganza events!   

[ConsiderAndGo]

The strategy group is a dud and should be scraped. However, the old dinosaur shouldn't be anywhere near the rule book...ever.

[Mohican]

But given how weak Todt has turned out to be, this appears an open goal for Bernie. As usual.

[Disgrace]

Bernie in power-seeking move shocker. He complains that the Strategy Group is "too democratic" despite how the small teams are simply not represented. Unless it can be properly democratised, it only has a negative impact on the sport anyway.

[Diablobb81]

Blatter says hi.

[lustigson]

The FIA should revoke the 100-year agreement, have both rule-making power and commercial rights in house, move to Switzerland and behave more like FIFA does. 

 

Oh, wait.

[SealTheDiffuser]

in the meantime: FBI deploying spy planes...

[SealTheDiffuser]

serious, Bernie is known for making corrupt deals, but maybe thats the glue the holds the F1 circus/soap opera  together... and strategy group is not functioning well, but without them Bernie would get through his mad ideas even quicker, like  Medals, doublepoints, grand slam, 30min races, points for noise...

[uffen]

An excellent idea, Bernie.

[Fastcake]

Unless they come up with some better form of governance, just revert back to the old ways. I.e the Sporting/Technical working groups comprised of the relevant figures (and not the money men) drafting regulations, the F1 commission, and the FIA which retained the power to regulate independently. It was at least functional, and didn't put undue influence into the hands of Bernie and the large teams.

[wrcva]

The most sensible proposal since the switch to V6T, but probably Todt would do nothing about it.  

 

I hope this does not require unanimous vote but just the majority rule.  

[Jon83]

The strategy group would hardly be any sort of loss.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

It's daft letting the teams (and even then only some of them) to try to make the rules. They all have different agendas. They can barely agree on whether to say "pardon me" or "excuse me" if one of them farts, let alone on rules for the sport. Should be a simple case of the FIA saying "these are the rules we've decided to have, either sign up or go home".

[SenorSjon]

Yep here come the artifical wets races, customers cars and more super duper points extravaganza events!   

 

Most of those being voted on at the SWG.

 

Constructors cannot decide what to lunch or when to meet again. Let alone decide their own disbanding. F1 is in a sorry state and the only thing they decided on was the fixed design for driver helmets because that didn't affect them. 

[ewanarm]

It has always confused me that the teams have had such a say in the running of F1. Is F1 the only FIA sanctioned championship where the teams have such power? Surely the governing body should set the rules and the teams turn up and follow them. Agree that Bernie needs to be kept at arms length from the rules to avoid the novelty of double points, artificial rain and trumpet exhausts!

[Nemo1965]

Most of those being voted on at the SWG.

 

Constructors cannot decide what to lunch or when to meet again. Let alone decide their own disbanding. F1 is in a sorry state and the only thing they decided on was the fixed design for driver helmets because that didn't affect them. 

 

 

It is not that constructors can't agree on something, it is how the division of the votes is distributed IN the strategy-group. A reminder:

 

The discussion and planning of future Formula One rules, which previously involved the input of all teams via the Sporting Working Group and Technical Working Group, is now controlled by just six of the predominantly wealthiest entrants. The six teams are represented on the new Strategy Working Group along with six further representatives each from the FIA and FOM. Decisions taken by the Strategy Group have to be approved by the Formula One Commission, on which all the teams are represented, plus a further seven representatives in total from the FIA and FOM.

 

As you can see this gives the richest team a stranglehold on the championship. Because you can a member of the Formula One Commission, you can only approve or disapprove what is cooked up by the Strategy Group. You can not field idea's that the richest teams don't want. Hence: the deadlock on the sport.

 

So a better solution would be a strategygroup with FOM plus FIA plus ALL the teams that scored points in the previous season - equal voting rights. I am quite certain if the division had been like that a lot of painful cases could be solved quicker.

[SenorSjon]

I would skip the teams from that. The front wants to slow down the competition and the competition wants to slow down the front. Here is your deadlock. I wonder how many silly things have been approved upon just to make a point that the SWG has some uses.

Edited by SenorSjon, 03 June 2015 - 12:43.

[ViMaMo]

Surely we wish to see future of F1 in the hands of wise men and not a mad hatter.

[MirNyet]

Power mad nut job in quest for more power shocker...

[TheRacingElf]

Offcourse we have to get rid of the strategy group, it's pathetic that just some of the teams are allowed to have a say about the rules. They all have their own agenda and all want the rules to suit them. If you want it to be fair and democratic you should invite all the teams to take place in the strategy group, but as just 6 teams can't even agree on something I'm quite sure that the end result of that will be even worse. So the only option is to get rid of the strategy group and let the FIA decide everything on their own, which is a good thing I guess. But giving the power the teams had to the commercial rights holder isn't..

[Gyno]

Teams should have NO say  what so ever in rule makings of F1 or any other sport for that matter.

Only when it comes to Safety concern can they voice their opinions.

 

 F1 should be run by 1 Man/woman, not Bernie he is too old and got stupid ideas.

But 1 person who has NO connections to the teams.

[Jamiednm]

Bernie in power-seeking move shocker. He complains that the Strategy Group is "too democratic" despite how the small teams are simply not represented. Unless it can be properly democratised, it only has a negative impact on the sport anyway.

 

Democracy is no good for sports rule making, and it doesn't need to be a democratic process. The FIA (not the participants, nor the commercial rights holders, nor the cleaners) should be the only body that has the power to make rules because everyone else has vested interests.

[Paco]

I agree that the strategy needs to be axed. A new approach should be put together not the old either as it in itself wasn't working. That said, I don't think the teams should have an input but only 25% vote, 25% should come from Bernie and 50% variant of fia and some new board directors that consists of all the track owners with a motion passing with 66.7% of the votes.

Edited by Paco, 03 June 2015 - 13:33.

[apoka]

Teams should have NO say  what so ever in rule makings of F1 or any other sport for that matter.

Only when it comes to Safety concern can they voice their opinions.

 

 F1 should be run by 1 Man/woman, not Bernie he is too old and got stupid ideas.

But 1 person who has NO connections to the teams.

 

Doesn't need to be a single person, but should be a single organisation.

[Paco]

That way the teams, track owners, fia and Bernie all have a vote but no one group having the power do anything stupid and getting a 2/3 majority should be doable.

[Abranet]

Neither the teams or the commercial rights holders should have any input on the rules. Too many individuals all out to look after themselves. The FIA should also own the commercial rights but that's another topic.

 

The FIA should make the rules, end of. It's their series and they should be wholly responsible for it. 

[FullThrottleF1]

Neither the teams or the commercial rights holders should have any input on the rules. Too many individuals all out to look after themselves. The FIA should also own the commercial rights but that's another topic.

 

The FIA should make the rules, end of. It's their series and they should be wholly responsible for it. 

Agreed, it is the FIA Formula 1 word championship. 

[Disgrace]

Democracy is no good for sports rule making, and it doesn't need to be a democratic process. The FIA (not the participants, nor the commercial rights holders, nor the cleaners) should be the only body that has the power to make rules because everyone else has vested interests.

 

I agree that it doesn't need to be a democratic process, but if there is going to any representation of the teams at all, that body needs to represent all of them. The Strategy Group only provides representation to a wannabe oligopoly so nobody can really argue (as Bernie has) that too much democracy has crippled rule-making in F1. That experiment hasn't been properly tested.

[micktosin]

Blatter says hi.

He is way too powerful to F1 than Blatter was to FIFA. I just want him to retire to be honest. 

[RealRacing]

The strategy group is a dud and should be scraped. However, the old dinosaur shouldn't be anywhere near the rule book...ever.

Exactly, we can't win as fans.

[Wuzak]

If F1 was run like other sports the FIA would:

 

• Create and administer the rules
• Decide where races are run
• Periodically offer the rights to broadcast F1
• Receive and distribute all monies from the income to F1

The FOM would:

• Have to bid for the right to broadcast F1 - their profits would come from on-selling the product

[cas422]

I hope they have another Q&A session with Bernard (I know , he's VERY, VERY, BUSY) and somebody asks him exactly how stupid and naive he thinks the fans are ...

[johnmhinds]

According to autosport, Bernie wants to revert to FOM & FIA (meaning him and Jean Todt) making all decisions - thereby killing the Strategy Group.

As usual, he has the support of Christian Horner .

 

With 6 votes for FOM, 6 votes for FIA and 6x1 votes for the big teams, I assume this means a done deal, particularly if RBR is on board.

 

Interesting; sit tight for the next chapte. Customer cars, etc - here we come.

 

This isn't very different from the current Strategy Group set up. It just moves more of the votes into FOM's hands and gives Bernie even more power.

 

The FIA and the teams would be stupid if they went along with this.

[Timstr11]

I agree that that the teams should have no say, however I also think the Bernie should be kept as far away from the rulebook as possible.

 

I disagree with those who say teams should not have a say.

 

They are major stakeholders in the sport with big investments carrying big risks. It would be very wrong to sideline the teams.

 

As far as I'm concerned the flaw is not in the teams having a say, the flaw is in the organisation and process they use to formulate a strategy and identify areas for improvement.

 

And another thing, do people think that if you remove the teams from the decision making that all of a sudden we will have a better F1?

What is that thinking based on? Enlighten me.

Edited by Timstr11, 03 June 2015 - 17:01.

[Atreiu]

Part of me doesn't care (and knows worrying about it is entirely futile) and the other wonders if Todt could or would deter any of Bernie's stupid ideas.

 

But what has the strategy group effectively accomplished?

Edited by Atreiu, 03 June 2015 - 17:12.

[ninetyzero]

Help! Bernie said something sensible! Down is up, black is white! What's happening to the world?!

 

But seriously, he is spot on (it must be that time of year again). The FIA is the governing body and FOM the commercial rights holder, so they should run the sport. Asking a bunch of teams, some of whom have been rivals for decades and who probably couldn't come to a consensus on anything ever, what they think the rules should be is ridiculous' "Hey Mercedes, what do you want to change about F1? Oh nothing, right oh. Sorry what's that Ferrari? You think all silver cars should have to run square wheels? Okay then..."

[Atreiu]

 

If F1 was run like other sports the FIA would:

 

• Create and administer the rules
• Decide where races are run
• Periodically offer the rights to broadcast F1
• Receive and distribute all monies from the income to F1

The FOM would:

• Have to bid for the right to broadcast F1 - their profits would come from on-selling the product

 

 

Gold!

[johnmhinds]

I disagree with those who say teams should not have a say.

 

They are major stakeholders in the sport with big investments carrying big risks. It would be very wrong to sideline the teams.

 

As far as I'm concerned the flaw is not in the teams having a say, the flaw is in the organisation and process they use to formulate a strategy and identify areas for improvement.

 

And another thing, do people think that if you remove the teams from the decision making that all of a sudden we will have a better F1?

What is that thinking based on? Enlighten me.

 

 

Maybe not better decisions but there will at least be some made.

 

The Strategy Group has been around for almost 2 years now and hasn't even decided what their strategy is.

 

Half of the things they vote on to "improve the sport" don't even make it into the rulebook because of the negative views from the fans.

[Rasputin]

Agree. It is the FIA world Championship, hence the FIA should make the rules. The commercial rights should not rule...

The commercial rights should belong to the FIA and the teams, the FOM/CVC is an abomination, start a new "F1A" series and give Ecclestone & McKenzie the finger.

 

[ninetyzero]

Maybe not better decisions but there will at least be some made.

 

The Strategy Group has been around for almost 2 years now and hasn't even decided what their strategy is.

 

Half of the things they vote on to "improve the sport" don't even make it into the rulebook because of the negative views from the fans.

 

I think they spent most of that time deciding what they're name should be. I bet it would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall during one of their meeting; "So first thing on the agenda today, what type of biscuits do we want to have during tea break?" They have yet to come two a decision on that...

[ninetyzero]

The commercial rights should belong to the FIA and the teams, the FOM/CVC is an abomination, start a new "F1A" series and give Ecclestone & McKenzie the finger.

 

 

Didn't Mad Max sell the rights to FOM for 100 years for a stupidly small amount of money?

[jjcale]

But given how weak Todt has turned out to be, this appears an open goal for Bernie. As usual.

 

I'm actually missing Max...

[ninetyzero]

I'm actually missing Max...

 

Bet you never thought you'd ever say that did you? I do to, almost, Todt might have been a good team boss but he's been a disaster as FIA president. He can't leave soon enough in my opinion.

[Timstr11]

Maybe not better decisions but there will at least be some made.

 

The Strategy Group has been around for almost 2 years now and hasn't even decided what their strategy is.

 

Half of the things they vote on to "improve the sport" don't even make it into the rulebook because of the negative views from the fans.

 

From my perspective not any decision to change will do.

 

It's about how you arrive at an informed decision.

 

I also do not agree with the perception that F1 is stale when it comes to rules changes.

In terms of technical and sporting rules changes, we've had numerous bigger and smaller rule changes since 2009. 

You may agree or disagree with some of them, but there have been lots of changes.

 

The one elephant in the room in my opinion, is the commercial side of the sport. No changes there. It's status quo all the way.

And Bernie (yet again) is succeeding in pointing the finger at the teams, while the company he partly owns and works for is in charge of the commercial strategy of F1 and is doing NOTHING.

Edited by Timstr11, 03 June 2015 - 17:41.

[jjcale]

Bet you never thought you'd ever say that did you? I do to, almost, Todt might have been a good team boss but he's been a disaster as FIA president. He can't leave soon enough in my opinion.

I literally used to count down the days till Max left once he was not running again ... Now I look back and he may well have been the most successful FIA president ever on some measures.

[JHSingo]

There does seem to be a conflict of interest, with the big teams getting to dictate the future of the sport through the strategy group. It's also grossly unfair that the smaller teams are left out in the cold.

 

But, such is my lack of faith in the ability of FOM, Bernie and the FIA to do what is best for the sport, the thought of that group in complete control is a scary thought as well.

[johnmhinds]

From my perspective not any decision to change will do.

 

It's about how you arrive at an informed decision.

 

I also do not agree with the perception that F1 is stale when it comes to rules changes.

In terms of technical and sporting rules changes, we've had numerous bigger and smaller rule changes since 2009. 

You may agree or disagree with some of them, but there have been lots of changes.

 

The one elephant in the room in my opinion, is the commercial side of the sport. No changes there. It's status quo all the way.

And Bernie (yet again) is succeeding in pointing the finger at the teams, while the company he partly owns and works for is in charge of the commercial strategy of F1 and is doing NOTHING.

 

Sure, but the teams involved in the F1 Strategy Group have been picking old rules out of a bucket at random and haven't done any research before voting on things.

 

All we've heard from the teams this year about the future direction for the sport is them wanting "more power and bigger wheels". They've been a complete joke.

 

Bernie's ideas on customer cars might not work, but at least he seems to have put more thought into his ideas than the teams have been.