48 replies to this topic

[Bren]

I was reading some comments on the build up to this weekends GP and a quote from Marc Surer made me curious to the actual differences in late brakers Club. 

Of course, in this day and age of tire life management etc.. drivers control the wear and can take it easy into corners during a long stint and so on, and the distances can change practically from lap to lap. Brake balances, fuel loads, tire life, other cars...

But on average what would those distances be measured in. Hamilton could be 10% beyond the accepted brake points for most of the GP?  Could it only relate to qualifying, or could it be, one of those Formula 1 myth tv pundit stories like 'if only Alonso could qualify good', 'Nico has the brains but not the speed'

 

Any insight?

 

"And the use of the softest tyre compounds also plays into their hands," added Surer. "But this track also gives an advantage to the drivers who brake latest, like (Lewis) Hamilton."

 

 

[Topsu]

Well, what I've gathered from Sky's driver comparisons, the differences are pretty minimal. Like a couple of meters. 

[Jamiednm]

Well, what I've gathered from Sky's driver comparisons, the differences are pretty minimal. Like a couple of meters. 

 

Well yes, that will be the case, but it's tiny differences that make the ultimate difference.

 

And to answer the OP, it definitely isn't a myth, and it isn't exclusive to F1. It is a key differentiator between drivers at all levels of motorsport.

[MasterOfCoin]

Well yes, that will be the case, but it's tiny differences that make the ultimate difference.

 

And to answer the OP, it definitely isn't a myth, and it isn't exclusive to F1. It is a key differentiator between drivers at all levels of motorsport.

Agreed, just look at Mark Marquez in Moto GP his late braking is incredible.

[Oho]

Yeah well, Michael Schumacher was not a particularly late barker and yet managed to be moderately successful....

[B Squared]

Yeah well, Michael Schumacher was not a particularly late barker and yet managed to be moderately successful....

Was this only during full moons?

[aramos]

Late braking isn't always what it's cracked up to be, anyone can brake late but the point is to carry adequate corner speed into the apex and braking at the last second often doesn't do this as it unsettles the car. A lot of faster drivers will brake early, keep the car flatter and carry more speed into the apex.

Late braking also typically means better pedal control, Hamilton is excellent in this area and its part of the reason he can run more rearward brake bias than other drivers.

[Marklar]

A "late breaker" is someone who is constencly able to brake later than the braking point to gain an advantage (but has to carry on with the advantage). Hamilton, Vettel and Verstappen are typical late breakers.

Edited by Marklar, 04 June 2015 - 12:40.

[Nemo1965]

Late braking isn't always what it's cracked up to be, anyone can brake late but the point is to carry adequate corner speed into the apex and braking at the last second often doesn't do this as it unsettles the car. A lot of faster drivers will brake early, keep the car flatter and carry more speed into the apex.

Late braking also typically means better pedal control, Hamilton is excellent in this area and its part of the reason he can run more rearward brake bias than other drivers.

 

As I understand it, Lewis is also able to brake VERY hard, I believe of all the current F1 drivers he puts the biggest initial load on the brakes. That does not necessarily mean he can brake later, but most definitely SHORTER which gives him a lot of freedom to do lots of interesting stuff in the corner.

 

As mentioned before, Schumacher was not considered a late braker, but he also did not brake very hard but carried A LOT of speed into the corner. This he solved with very quick steering and correction steering, while someone like Senna (senior) managed the speed by punctuating the throttle very quickly. As Aromos rightly points out, braking late means nothing if you end up in a shitty way. What if you brake late and at the moment you steer in the front of the car is so heavily loaded the understeer forces you to apply the throttle much later than someone who brakes 10 meters earlier?

 

Another interesting thing: Jim Clark was reputed to create 'early apexes'. He kind of created his own apex (way before the apex), braked (earlier than others), and then made the car understeer past his imaginary apex and right on the real apex. Scary...

[Marklar]

As I understand it, Lewis is also able to brake VERY hard, I believe of all the current F1 drivers he puts the biggest initial load on the brakes. That does not necessarily mean he can brake later, but most definitely SHORTER which gives him a lot of freedom to do lots of interesting stuff in the corner.

He's actually doing both: sometimes braking later and sometimes shorter (by the way: to brake shorter means also to use less fuel)

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

There are roughly two categories in drivers, those who brake at the absolute last millimeter, and those who brake much earlier. Generally, it is a driver's personal style, but it can also be dictated by the track and corners.

 

In late braking, a driver brakes as deep into the corner as possible. Obviously, this can be a benefit when entering a corner side-by-side with another driver. But this benefit may have penalties, the first obvious one for Montreal is the brakes. The braking distance and time is shortened, and more heat is generated in such a short time. A brake's cooling system can dump only so much heat at a certain rate, and if all that heat is generated in 2.5 seconds instead of 3.0 seconds, all of the components exposed to this heat will suffer. The second problem is that late braking leaves no room for mistakes, and it is easier to get it wrong. If you get your distances wrong, or get forced off the racing line, then whatever you may have gained by late braking could have a larger penalty in correcting the mistake.

 

In Formula One with so much power and traction, those mistakes can be quickly corrected. But in cars with less power and/or traction, a loss in momentum can cost a driver over a second. This leads into the other end of the braking technique, braking earlier. But doing so, the chances of something going wrong is drastically reduced, and consistency attains a maximum value. A driver hits his line each time, carries maximum speed into a corner, and maintains momentum through and out of a corner. This starts to make sense in lower powered cars where momentum is critical, and endurance racing. And obviously, the technique is easier on the brakes and drivetrain.

 

Generally, braking earlier is better for the tires, they receive less abuse and live longer. But Formula One is an anomaly, the operating temperature of the tires is so small that a driver cannot afford to go so slow that they lose temperature, and grip drops off. The other end of spectrum is also there, too hot and the tires also lose grip. In Formula One they use many technical tricks to maintain a certain temperature, such as driver technique and adjustable vents on the brakes to control the rate of heat dissipation. The brakes and tires are linked so that heat transfers very quickly between these two systems.

 

Strange as it seems, either technique offers about the same lap times. Late braking may gain a driver a small fraction of a second each lap, but that driver has to be absolutely perfect for the entire race. One mistake can cost you a position very easily.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

Yeah well, Michael Schumacher was not a particularly late barker and yet managed to be moderately successful....

 

That is because Schumacher carried a LOT of speed into a corner and when it was time to get on the gas, the suspension was settled down to deliver optimum traction.

[Gyno]

Schumi also never fully released the gas pedal either,

https://www.youtube....h?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4

[midgrid]

It's highly advantageous to be a late breaker, as this means that your car will cross the finishing line before it falls apart.

[joaoheitor]

There are roughly two categories in drivers, those who brake at the absolute last millimeter, and those who brake much earlier. Generally, it is a driver's personal style, but it can also be dictated by the track and corners.

In late braking, a driver brakes as deep into the corner as possible. Obviously, this can be a benefit when entering a corner side-by-side with another driver. But this benefit may have penalties, the first obvious one for Montreal is the brakes. The braking distance and time is shortened, and more heat is generated in such a short time. A brake's cooling system can dump only so much heat at a certain rate, and if all that heat is generated in 2.5 seconds instead of 3.0 seconds, all of the components exposed to this heat will suffer. The second problem is that late braking leaves no room for mistakes, and it is easier to get it wrong. If you get your distances wrong, or get forced off the racing line, then whatever you may have gained by late braking could have a larger penalty in correcting the mistake.

In Formula One with so much power and traction, those mistakes can be quickly corrected. But in cars with less power and/or traction, a loss in momentum can cost a driver over a second. This leads into the other end of the braking technique, braking earlier. But doing so, the chances of something going wrong is drastically reduced, and consistency attains a maximum value. A driver hits his line each time, carries maximum speed into a corner, and maintains momentum through and out of a corner. This starts to make sense in lower powered cars where momentum is critical, and endurance racing. And obviously, the technique is easier on the brakes and drivetrain.

Generally, braking earlier is better for the tires, they receive less abuse and live longer. But Formula One is an anomaly, the operating temperature of the tires is so small that a driver cannot afford to go so slow that they lose temperature, and grip drops off. The other end of spectrum is also there, too hot and the tires also lose grip. In Formula One they use many technical tricks to maintain a certain temperature, such as driver technique and adjustable vents on the brakes to control the rate of heat dissipation. The brakes and tires are linked so that heat transfers very quickly between these two systems.

Strange as it seems, either technique offers about the same lap times. Late braking may gain a driver a small fraction of a second each lap, but that driver has to be absolutely perfect for the entire race. One mistake can cost you a position very easily.

Fantastic post. Thanks!

[realracer200]

today there aren't any real late breakers in Formula 1 anymore. everybody brakes pretty much similar.

[omgwtf]

Unless you're in an out braking situation, defensive or offensive, or trying to stop before contact with another car or barrier, you're never fully 100% on the brakes until the last second.

 

Braking cannot be singled out as a single event to measure performance, rather a sequence of events (weight transfer) as one leads (setting up the car for the corner) to another (traction event) that the driver hopefully dictates in order to minimise the amount of time off of full throttle. A tire only ever has a certain amount of grip available, all drivers will be looking to use the maximum grip during deceleration, laterally and during traction you always aim to use ever so slightly "more" grip (slide & over rotate the rears on exit) as this is where you'll find your time.

 

It's all about balancing those three events into one seamless, controlled motion in the shortest time and distance relative to your competitors.

Edited by omgwtf, 04 June 2015 - 14:13.

[BRG]

Hamilton, Vettel and Verstappen are typical late breakers.

Verstappen certainly broke it in Monaco.

 

It's BRAKE not break.  Try to get it right.

[CurbPainter]

Schumi also never fully released the gas pedal either,

https://www.youtube....h?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4

 

Basically it comes down to being able to drive on the absolute limit because of car feeling (how it slips and slides), the same as where Max Verstappen his talent lies, hence Michael was so good in the rain and Max is also really good at it.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

 

Unless you're in an out braking situation, defensive or offensive, or trying to stop before contact with another car or barrier, you're never fully 100% on the brakes until the last second.

 

Braking cannot be singled out as a single event to measure performance, rather a sequence of events (weight transfer) as one leads (setting up the car for the corner) to another (traction event) that the driver hopefully dictates in order to minimise the amount of time off of full throttle. A tire only ever has a certain amount of grip available, all drivers will be looking to use the maximum grip during deceleration, laterally and during traction you always aim to use ever so slightly "more" grip (slide & over rotate the rears on exit) as this is where you'll find your time.

 

It's all about balancing those three events into one seamless, controlled motion in the shortest time and distance relative to your competitors.

 

 

Love the name. 

 

What drivers attempt (obviously) is the quickest lap time, and they use their delta to guide them in that goal. The delta time is a real time display on what their real time is compared to an optimum time. The thing is, if they late brake, and gain 1/10 entering the apex, they may have to wait 1/10 of a second for the suspension to settle down, so that they may get a good drive off the corner. Get it right, their delta goes in the right direction. But if they are as much as 1/10 late, then for the following straight they watch their delta go in the wrong direction, sometimes losing as much as half a second. Racing can be broken into three phases, braking, cornering, and acceleration. And make no mistake, the most important part is that drag race from corner to corner. So everything is related to each other, late braking may sacrifice some stop end speed for the following straight, it may sacrifice some cornering speed.

 

So a late braker must get it perfect, because if they lose any time carrying speed through the corner or not getting a good drive off the corner, it is all in vain.

 

This may seem off-topic, and a very long video, but it describes in good detail how all the factors are related, and what it takes to go fast.

 

Edited by BlinkyMcSquinty, 04 June 2015 - 15:46.

[CurbPainter]

 

What drivers attempt (obviously) is the quickest lap time, and they use their delta to guide them in that goal. The delta time is a real time display on what their real time is compared to an optimum time. The thing is, if they late brake, and gain 1/10 entering the apex, they may have to wait 1/10 of a second for the suspension to settle down, so that they may get a good drive off the corner. Get it right, their delta goes in the right direction. But if they are as much as 1/10 late, then for the following straight they watch their delta go in the wrong direction, sometimes losing as much as half a second. Racing can be broken into three phases, braking, cornering, and acceleration. And make no mistake, the most important part is that drag race from corner to corner. So everything is related to each other, late braking may sacrifice some stop end speed for the following straight, it may sacrifice some cornering speed.

 

Yes, (halfway) corner speed at its maximum is what counts, and giving gas gives traction so you can go a couple of km/h faster through corners...the extra speed through corners are being carried all the way to the next corner and braking just a bit early doesn't cost that much time...the better the driver, the more constant he will be at being every corner very close or on the absolute maximum speed through the corner.

[Fatgadget]

The last of the late brakers is really a euphemism of a driver with a pair of balls the size of planets.

[63Corvette]

While most of the posts above discuss the theory of late braking the actual practice (assuming both vehicles are either aero or both non-aero etc) BOTH cars brake at about the same TIME, but in different portions of the track, so they take very different dynamic paths through the following turn. The overtaking car, having braked to his car's threshold, then slightly relaxes his braking to overtake the car being passed. However, being on the "wrong line" and traveling faster, the overtaking car goes deeper into the turn, possibly allowing the overtaken car (on the correct line) to tighten his line and repass the overtaking car at the exit of the turn. So, overtaking can be a very tricky operation depending (as mentioned) on the skill and balls of the driver.

[Alexandros]

Keep in mind, depending the year there are differences. Pre-2014 f1 was different than current f1 (brake by wire), and the pre-KERS system was also different (no kers entanglement during braking), and when F1 had more downforce it was more different than when it had less df (more df = you press the pedal more in the start when the car is being pushed to the ground and then lift it more as the downforce is reduced to avoid locking). 

 

All these things affect late brakers. Some can't work as they like with the brake by wire, kers messing their pure braking feel, or high downforce situations where braking at 300 is much much different when the car slows down to 150 and you have to lift the braking pedal a lot - all the while making mental calculations of when it'll lock.

 

Heck even the tires play a role, as the squarer tires were theoretically more suited for braking, due to offering greater contact. 

 

As for the practice itself, late braking only makes sense if a driver can start braking a few meters later and attains the same (slowed-down) speed as another driver, by the time they need to steer into the next corner. If you start braking later but also have greater velocity at the point where you have to turn for the next speed, then there's usually a problem as the entry to the next corner will be problematic.

 

So in a sense, late brakers gain an advantage by squeezing the most out of their brakes, by trying to brake more marginally before the tires lock. It's kind of a gamble, but it can be done and not every driver is taking that gamble. That gamble though, won't pay over a GP distance as the risk of flatspotting is very high. Thus it's more of a qualify thing.

[Crossmax]

A "late breaker" is someone who is constencly able to brake later than the braking point to gain an advantage (but has to carry on with the advantage). Hamilton, Vettel and Verstappen are typical late breakers.

 

Pastor must be one of the early breakers.

[Marklar]

Pastor must be one of the early breakers.

No, Pastor is doing both: he is braking later and earlier, so he is unpredictable and that's why he is all the time crashing

 

Now seriously: A good driver is usually braking at the same point almost every lap. An average driver can't do this. Once he brake earlier than later than he nailed the braking point than he brakes earlier and so on. Maldonado is one of them. A special one indeed

Edited by Marklar, 04 June 2015 - 20:29.

[Marklar]

Verstappen certainly broke it in Monaco.

 

It's BRAKE not break.  Try to get it right.

It's even worse than the barking typo

 

I'll try to get it right

[tmekt]

But what if their brakes break?

[Marklar]

But what if their brakes break?

Than they are braking very late......never indeed....

[PayasYouRace]

I remember a Discovery Channel documentary many moons ago that followed the Tasman team in Indycar. One part compared drivers Andre Ribeiro and Adrian Fernandez going round the same corner. Now I can't remember which had which technique, but one would brake later and get round the corner at a certain speed before planting the throttle nice and early. The other braked earlier, and would carry 5 mph or so more through the apex, and hit the throttle a bit later. But the result was that they took about the same amount of time through the corner.

[Dolph]

That is because Schumacher carried a LOT of speed into a corner and when it was time to get on the gas, the suspension was settled down to deliver optimum traction.

 

If you carry a lot of speed into a corner wouldn't you automatically need to brake later as you don't need to slow down as much?

[Requiem84]

When playing serious simracing games (iRacing for example), a common mistake made by many many people is to brake as late as possible.

Generally, the point where you can brake and still make the corner, hit the apex is not the fastest way. When you hit a ceiling in your laptimes, a wise man once told me: instead of braking even later to gain time, try to brake 2-5 metres earlier.

It works, it really does. Suddenly you realize you were still fighting the car on entry. Balancing understeer, weight transfer, oversteer etc. whdn you are more relaxed at entry, its much easier to focus on the exit, position the car for a perfect exit and floor it. After all, most time generally is won on the straight after the corner, and not the corner itself.

I imagine that these F1 guys are so much more talented than I, that they can brake at the veryyy latest and still make a perfect exit? :--)

[Kimble]

One of things that Alain Prost did when coaching the Mclaren drivers was to get DC braking a bit earlier.  In general the golden rule is always to drive for the corner (or sequence exit) as there is a lot more to be gained there than made up under braking.   Overtaking is a complete special case as both drivers lines are normally completely compromised and they will both be taking the corner slower than normal.

 

I think Lewis is quite unique in how hard he can hit the brake pedal.  Some of this will ultimately be genetic but he undoubtedly has very good brake modulation and knows how to hit the brakes hard but then get off of them quickly enough to avoid the locking and get the car balanced for corner entry (and therefore a good exit).  A lot of this is about confidence in your brakes and the cars behaviour, that's why the brakes get so much attention and a routine morning bleed whether they need it or not.  Ricciardo last year was a perfect example of this, he looked so comfortable with the Red Bull into the braking zone.

 

Max Verstappen looks brilliant here as well, with that innate ability to feel when the tyre is ready to turn at the transition point after some very heavy braking.  If you ever get a chance to watch top level karters then take it.  Go and stand at a braking zone and you will see them all run nose to tail and hit the same braking spot every lap with a distinct 'chirp' that a tyre makes just as it is about to give up traction.

[lbennie]

Late braking is only really great for race craft & overtaking.

 

Quite often slow in/fast out is the way to better lap time, particularly during the EBD era.

[Alexandros]

There are two phenomena in late braking.

 

Driver A = normal driver / normal braking, standard line for next corner

Driver B = late braker, standard line for next corner

Driver C = late braker, different line for next corner

 

Driver A = will go for the ideal line for the next corner and he will brake as hard as he thinks he can, but not really endangering a lockup.

 

Driver B = will try to take the next corner at the same speed as Driver A. His laptime gains are by touching the brake pedal a few meters later, and managing to somehow have the same km/h when he reaches the next corner as Driver A, despite starting the braking process later. He achieves that by going very marginal with his braking (on the limit of locking / risking possible lock / even locking one wheel on turn in).

 

Driver C = will brake at a later point but will ultimately decelerate less for the next corner, meaning he'll have to try a different line / acceleration compared to drivers A and B. 

 

 

Now... 

 

Driver B = more effective at braking than Driver A or C, as he needs less meters to stop the car.

 

Driver C = simply brakes later, doesn't decelerate more than driver B, and takes a different line. Driver C is not really more effective at braking than Driver A, and both A and C are inferior in braking skill to Driver B. That doesn't necessarily mean A and C have bad lines or that their laptimes will suffer. It depends on what type of tradeoff is done and whether the current and following straights are long or short. 

 

Bottom line: It's not necessary that a late braker will carry more speed in the next corner. He may actually be stopping the car in less distance by simply being more marginal with his braking technique, and flirting with the lockup by being very aggressive.

[63Corvette]

OK.............................Late braking and overtaking are NOT about time thru the turn!!!!  They are about TRACK position! That is, when you are trying to overtake a competitor, you may want to do it by braking at the same point, but on a different line, to BLOCK his position, so that he CANNOT turn in at the optimum time because you are already there. You may do this by braking hard at the origin of your braking point and then letting off of the brakes to (in effect) accelerate past your opponent to the turn in point. However, this will probably mean that you cannot turn-in at the optimum point and will begin your turn-in later, possibly allowing your opponent to turn-in earlier and repass......................................

[joaoheitor]

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

If you carry a lot of speed into a corner wouldn't you automatically need to brake later as you don't need to slow down as much?

 

Weight distribution. Under any braking, most of the weight is transferred to the front end, while the rear tires are almost up in the air. The front suspension is compressed while the rear suspension is fully extended. But for optimal cornering, you have to get front to rear balance optimized relative to tire grip, and the left side is compressed while the right is extended. So there is a transition period where the suspension travel is moving to adjust the weight transfer from braking to cornering. What Schumacher did was to make that transition long before the apex, carry the maximum cornering allowed by the tires into and out of the corner.

 

You brake much earlier to get the suspension and weight transfer just right for optimal cornering.

[Oho]

If you carry a lot of speed into a corner wouldn't you automatically need to brake later as you don't need to slow down as much?

 

No time on brakes or was it barkes is not constant.

[omgwtf]

Weight distribution. Under any braking, most of the weight is transferred to the front end, while the rear tires are almost up in the air. The front suspension is compressed while the rear suspension is fully extended. But for optimal cornering, you have to get front to rear balance optimized relative to tire grip, and the left side is compressed while the right is extended. So there is a transition period where the suspension travel is moving to adjust the weight transfer from braking to cornering. What Schumacher did was to make that transition long before the apex, carry the maximum cornering allowed by the tires into and out of the corner.

 

You brake much earlier to get the suspension and weight transfer just right for optimal cornering.

 

Spot on! The transition period, that moment where it's all about feel as the car is light on grip, performing a balancing act and getting the car to rotate towards apex and nailing the throttle is heaven!

[midgrid]

I remember a Discovery Channel documentary many moons ago that followed the Tasman team in Indycar. One part compared drivers Andre Ribeiro and Adrian Fernandez going round the same corner. Now I can't remember which had which technique, but one would brake later and get round the corner at a certain speed before planting the throttle nice and early. The other braked earlier, and would carry 5 mph or so more through the apex, and hit the throttle a bit later. But the result was that they took about the same amount of time through the corner.

There's a similar analysis of Schumacher and Herbert in 1995:

 

[CoolBreeze]

Kimi was driving injured slighy in that above video. 

 

I also think the key is smoothness. Not early or late braking, 

[PlatenGlass]

OK.............................Late braking and overtaking are NOT about time thru the turn!!!!  They are about TRACK position! That is, when you are trying to overtake a competitor, you may want to do it by braking at the same point, but on a different line, to BLOCK his position, so that he CANNOT turn in at the optimum time because you are already there. You may do this by braking hard at the origin of your braking point and then letting off of the brakes to (in effect) accelerate past your opponent to the turn in point. However, this will probably mean that you cannot turn-in at the optimum point and will begin your turn-in later, possibly allowing your opponent to turn-in earlier and repass......................................

Late braking isn't just about overtaking. Some drivers brake later than others when driving on their own. Obviously when it comes to overtaking/defending it's a different story. Lap time goes out the window - it's all about emerging from the corner ahead of the other driver regardless of whether it takes longer to go round than when you're on your own.

[HoldenRT]

It's just a driving style thing.  You can make anything work if all of the other factors are compensated.  There are a lot of variables.  With the right car, and setup and adjustments later in the corner, late braking can work.  Sometimes a driver will brake later each lap on one circuit (because that's what's fastest for his car) and then on another circuit not brake so late.  Depends on what their weaknesses are and what they are trying to address.  If they are fuel saving, they might drive differently to a "hammer time" lap.

 

The two things that help racecraft/overtaking is a setup that it's optimised for straight line speed and late braking because those are the things that you need and if you're already setup like that and in the habit of doing that in clear air, it's obviously going to be helpful.  But it's not as simple as braking later and being faster.

 

It's always a series of compromises.

 

You can't brake late without compromising something it's just that the guys that make it work, don't need to compromise as much in order to make it work.  It's all about optimising entries or exits.  I don't think Renault drivers would be able to brake late too often because with that engine, they'd be trying like hell to optimise their exit speed every corner every lap.  Even cars with good straight line speed would be making sure to optimise exits onto long straights.  But they'd have more room to play around and experiment and improvise.

 

There's many corners on the calender, where there are 3 or 4 corners flowing in succession and it's about carrying mid corner speed through all 4.  If you mess one up, you mess all of them up.  Braking late doesn't help so much in those situations.  It's worth it to sacrifice a little early on in order to gain at the end.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Based on that Schumacher-Herbert video you'd think the Benetton had a form of exhaust blown diffuser. But run 'manually'.

[BRG]

As well as the traction control?

[krea]

Basically it comes down to being able to drive on the absolute limit because of car feeling (how it slips and slides), the same as where Max Verstappen his talent lies, hence Michael was so good in the rain and Max is also really good at it.

 

The ban of driving aids was really the best thing that could happen to Schumacher. I remember that his performances in the rain were often quite subpar (far away fron the later raingod reputation) because other teams were leagues ahead in that department. 

[oetzi]

Weight distribution. Under any braking, most of the weight is transferred to the front end, while the rear tires are almost up in the air. The front suspension is compressed while the rear suspension is fully extended. But for optimal cornering, you have to get front to rear balance optimized relative to tire grip, and the left side is compressed while the right is extended. So there is a transition period where the suspension travel is moving to adjust the weight transfer from braking to cornering. What Schumacher did was to make that transition long before the apex, carry the maximum cornering allowed by the tires into and out of the corner.

You brake much earlier to get the suspension and weight transfer just right for optimal cornering.

I can't remember which year, but there is a qualifying session at Magny Cours that shows this so clearly. Maybe 2001/2?

[63Corvette]

Late braking isn't just about overtaking. Some drivers brake later than others when driving on their own. Obviously when it comes to overtaking/defending it's a different story. Lap time goes out the window - it's all about emerging from the corner ahead of the other driver regardless of whether it takes longer to go round than when you're on your own.

This is true. However, I (who race a Corvette, NOT F1) can't see the quantification of the term "Late" braking, If you don't define WHO you are braking "later than". 

SO..............Ordinary braking may be (to me) early or late...........or (probably) normal. BUT, if I "OUTbrake someone, then by definition, I am "LATE" braking, and this is the usage that I personally use when I speak about "LATE" braking......that is, to brake later than my competitor, in order to overtake him.