76 replies to this topic

[kenkip]

Should Daniel start trying to engineer a move to Maranello next year?
Its been a while since I have seen Daniel so fustrated over a race weekend.It kind of reminded me of Vettel's post race interviews-down and confused at what is happening.
I am starting to wonder weather this move is actualy possible.Arrivabene for the first time looked pretty pissed of with Kimi's performance.The Ferrari chairman was at the event and if there was any race Kimi really needed to step up it was this.
On the other hand Dan had his worst weekend with RB and he seems to think that the direction being taken by the team is not the correct one.Couple that with him being out of contract for next season,I think we may soon start hearing stories of Dan visiting the Ferrari motorhome ala Hamilton in 2011 when he went to ask Horner for the Redbull drive.

A few things may stand in his way though,the main one being Sebastian Vettel's rumored veto on teammates.I dont think he will be amused seeing the guy who destroyed him last year.
Secondly,Ferrari may look at Kimi and Seb's good relationship and decide that it is better not to have two roosters in the same team because at the end of the day it is not like Kimi is not bringing in the points.
Thoughts?

[anyeis]

Out of contract? "It will not be possible: Daniel has a long term contract with us," says the boss of Red Bull.

 

http://motorsport.ne...rner,91272.html

Edited by anyeis, 08 June 2015 - 20:09.

[tmekt]

Despite the fact he beat Vettel last year, Ricciardo is still somewhat unproven (in terms of whether he can maintain the form). If I were Ferrari I'd wait for a couple of years more at least before starting to consider him.

[Silverstone96]

Do not think Vettel will allow it, but Kimi's time has to be up. Bottas will be in red next year

[kvyatfan]

Vettel may have a veto.

 

But it may be the only spot for Ric to move up to.

[CARLO55AINZ]

How long is Rosbergs contract, Dan in the Mercedes would be very exciting.

[Nonesuch]

How long is Rosbergs contract, Dan in the Mercedes would be very exciting.

 

Rosberg signed an 'at least' two more years deal in 2014, so until the end of next season at least.

 

On another note, people sure seem to know a lot about what Vettel wants and can enforce at Ferrari.

Edited by Nonesuch, 08 June 2015 - 20:44.

[topical]

Raikkonen has been unmasked time and time again, and this time there's no comeback. A driver who last looked good against Grosjean? 'Nuff said.

 

But Ricciardo? I'm not sure. Reputations rise and fall with car performance in F1, and he's in swift danger of becoming last year's man, as happened with the likes of Hulkenberg before him. He needs to move to a top team soon if he can, because RB are clearly no longer that. Ferrari would be a good fit. Would Vettel allow it? I doubt it.

[ch103]

As much as I want RIC in the red cars, I don't think it will happen... McLaren or Mercedes are his only two options and McLaren at this point cannot be considered a top option.

[CARLO55AINZ]

Who is a serious candidate for Ferrari though:

 

Hulkenberg

 

Perez

 

Bottas

 

Grosjean

 

Button

[EthanM]

Who is a serious candidate for Ferrari though:

 

Hulkenberg

 

Perez

 

Bottas

 

Grosjean

 

Button

 

Kimi, then review what's available for 2017. Bottas IMO will replace Rosberg in 2017. The rest aren't serious options for Ferrari.

[kvyatfan]

Why Grosjean?

[Spillage]

Want to see Hulkenberg in a Ferrari next year. Pretty please, Mr Arrivabene.

[NoSanityClause]

Alonso to Ferrari in 2016.

[JosD]

Who is a serious candidate for Ferrari though:

 

Hulkenberg

 

Perez

 

Bottas

 

Grosjean

 

Button

 

Only Button, but Williams will most likely use the option for next year, while I think Ferrari will go with Kimi for one more year. At least that is my five cents 

[Strontiumdog]

Verstappen ?

[JosD]

Verstappen ?

 

No

[rasul]

So far Dan is a one-season wonder who looked good while Vettel was struggling to adapt to new regulations and the car that he couldn't drive the way he wanted it to drive(curiously, Dan seems to be experiencing similar issues now). Vettel had no problem adapting to the Ferrari. I think he'd actually love to have Dan as a teammate, to prove that last season was a fluke, but I don't think Ferrari is interested in him. I think Bottas is more likely. Swapping a Finn for another, younger, highly rated Finn makes sense. Hell, even ALO's come back might be more likely than RIC, given Ferrari's fetish for world champions. 

Edited by rasul, 08 June 2015 - 21:55.

[Radion]

Alonso to Ferrari in 2016.

Alonso is not interested in finishing second/third so nope he'll stick with mclaren. ;(

Ricc is the only logical choice.

[apoka]

I followed the Ricciardo vs. Vettel battle last year very closely and all I saw was mutual respect and both getting along quite (even surprisingly) well. They didn't blame each other when things went wrong (and they often did!) as far as I recall. Sure, Kimi is closer to Vettel, almost a friend, but *if* they decide not to give Kimi a new contract, then I don't think Vettel would be as strongly against Ricciardo as suggested in a few posts here.

Edited by apoka, 08 June 2015 - 21:48.

[ninetyzero]

So far Dan is a one-season wonder who looked good while Vettel was struggling to adapt to new regulations and the car that he couldn't drive the way he wanted it to drive(curiously, Dan seems to be experiencing similar issues now). Vettel had no problem adapting to the Ferrari. I think he'd actually love to have Dan as a teammate, to prove that last season was a fluke, but I don't think Ferrari is interested in him. I think Bottas is more likely. Swapping a Finn for another, younger, highly rated Finn makes sense. Hell, even ALO's come back might be more likely than RIC, given Ferrari's fetish for world champions. 

 

So Riccardo has a couple of bad races and all of a sudden last season was a fluke and now he's a talentless hack? Right oh, Vettel fan by any chance?

[rasul]

So Riccardo has a couple of bad races and all of a sudden last season was a fluke and now he's a talentless hack? Right oh, Vettel fan by any chance?

He's not a talentless hack. Don't put the words in my mouth. He's just still unproven. One season (especially when the regulations change so drastically) is not a good indicator of any driver's ability, good or bad. 

Edited by rasul, 08 June 2015 - 22:37.

[Marklar]

I think Seb will have something against it. Not because as apoka pointed out that they didn't have a good relationship. They actually seem to have an good relationship. The point is that everyone assumed that Vettel just lost last year because of bad luck and an bad year. If Ricciardo would be his teammate again and he would loose again than this would hurt his legacy massivly. So I don`t think that this will happen. His teammate will be from Finnland: Bottas or Kimi.

Edited by Marklar, 08 June 2015 - 22:38.

[AlexisBT]

Ricciardo is a A+ talent with WC potential (imo), what's up with the "one year wonder?"

[DinosaursRoarForHugs]

He's not a talentless hack. Don't put the words in my mouth. He's just still unproven. One season (especially when the regulations change so drastically) is not a good indicator of any driver's ability, good or bad. 

 

Perez in 2012 was a good example of that

[warp]

Who is a serious candidate for Ferrari though:

 

Hulkenberg

 

Perez

 

Bottas

 

Grosjean

 

Button

 

None of the above.

 

Kimi for 2016. Bottas for 2017.

[gowebber]

Seriously?? People are still questioning Ricciardo's talent? He is in the top few F1 drivers no question about it. He crushed 4x WDC Vettel last year, consistently  sets more faster laps than his teammates throughout races (which can be proven by looking through the FIA official timing sheets) and was the only man to win races against the all conquering Mercs last year.

 

Dan is certainly no flash in the pan. He was doing outstanding times even way back in the young drivers test days in 2010 when he set the fastest ever lap at Abu Dhabi which was a second quicker than Vettel's pole time at the previous years race.

 

"Daniel Ricciardo did the fastest ever lap of the Yas Marina circuit during the second young drivers’ test day.

He beat Sebastian Vettel’s pole position time by more than a second in the latter stages of the final test day"

 

http://www.f1fanatic...-dhabi-in-test/

 

Some of the wheel to wheel racing he did for example at Monza vs vettel last year or Hungary vs Lewis and Alonso was top drawer.

 

(lol so much cooler with the tunes of Black Sabbath! )

 

 

(Great to hear Dans commentating on this))

 

 

 

Add to this the fact that he didn't just beat, but smashed Lewis' fastest lap around the Top Gear test track and you can see he is one hell of a quick driver.

 

Even at Monaco DR's overall laptimes were faster than Kvyat. The only reason he was behind was that he was beaten into T1 because of track position and was tyre saving early on as evidenced by his much faster laptiimes later in the race. At Canada Dan went with a heavy downforce setup

 

""I had more downforce than Daniil. We switched [to running more wing] in quali, something I wanted to do.

"I was sliding around more and using the tyres more in the race, but it just didn't work."

 

http://www.autosport...rce=mostpopular

 

which in hindsight compromised his race quite badly. You could see cars being able to blast past him down the straights much more easily than Kvyat who had less downforce.

 

I expect Dan to be back on form again and will prove the doubters wrong again by the end of the year.

 

If I was DR I would wait and see how this year pans out esp with the supposed Renault upgrades coming soon at Spa before seriously looking at trying to move teams. The only teams I would be looking at would be Merc or Ferrari. Red Bull have deep pockets and good resources so I can't see this going on for too long.

Edited by gowebber, 09 June 2015 - 04:05.

[aramos]

Despite the fact he beat Vettel last year, Ricciardo is still somewhat unproven (in terms of whether he can maintain the form). If I were Ferrari I'd wait for a couple of years more at least before starting to consider him.

No other driver has his peak form though (no other available driver). Raikkonen has proven in recent years that he is consistent at underperforming if anything. Bottas has never faced a top grade team mate.

[kenkip]

Interesting that so many of you think that Bottas deserves the seat more than Daniel.Why?Bottas is good but Williams had a really good car last year and idealy both drivers should have capitalized on Merc's troubles but Daniel is the only one who did.I am sorry but Bottas is nowhere near the talent level of Daniel.

One thing I do agree though as some one said,reputations come and go very fast in F1.Daniel,unlike Vettelor Lewis,doesnt have multi world championships on his side when he has a poor season, and he can only hang on to 2014 for so long until people start to forget.That is why if I was him I would start campaigning for that Ferrari seat.
Dont forget about his Sicilain roots.

[CoolBreeze]

I don;t think so. I think Vettel might have a say in this. I think Hulk could be potentially be a great addition. 

[lbennie]

He's not a talentless hack. Don't put the words in my mouth. He's just still unproven. One season (especially when the regulations change so drastically) is not a good indicator of any driver's ability, good or bad. 

 

Eh, the way he caught the eye had nothing to do with relative car performance.

 

It was the way he went about racing/overtaking that made him a superstar.

 

We hadn't seen that sort of dynamic race craft since hamilton burst on the scene.

 

Of course being faster than the defending 4x WDC in his own team didn't hurt either but that wasn't the main reason he was getting all the plaudits imo.

Edited by lbennie, 09 June 2015 - 03:06.

[rtechmobile]

I have to chuckle at the people saying DR hasn't proved himself yet .I must have watched a different Formula One to everyone else..

[DILLIGAF]

Going by his latest interviews I don't see DR leaving RBR until the end of next season. Maybe see what RBR decide to do on the engine front for 2017? If the engine regs don't change RBR will not be competitive if they stay with a Renault PU imho.

[tmekt]

I have to chuckle at the people saying DR hasn't proved himself yet .I must have watched a different Formula One to everyone else..

He has proven he can be really quick but whether he can maintain the top form remains to be seen.

[Crossmax]

I don't think Seb would veto such a move (assuming he even has the authority to do so). The RB10 clearly didn't suit Seb and made him look mediocre at times. Still, he managed to outqualify Dan 8 times (to Dan's 11), which isn't bad for being a bad year. The F15T is clearly more to his liking, and there is no reason to assume that the 2016 challenger would be any less so. Hence, taking on Dan in Ferrari could be an opportunity to set the record straight.

[cokata]

It is between Bottas and Daniel i think. If there aren't going to be any problems between Vettel and Ric ( Vettel handled the situation pretty well last year if you ask me) i would prefer Daniel over Valteri. Last year i saw from him the best racecraft since Schumi and Montoya. Simply stunning.

Edited by cokata, 09 June 2015 - 07:51.

[aramos]

I don't think Seb would veto such a move (assuming he even has the authority to do so). The RB10 clearly didn't suit Seb and made him look mediocre at times. Still, he managed to outqualify Dan 8 times (to Dan's 11), which isn't bad for being a bad year. The F15T is clearly more to his liking, and there is no reason to assume that the 2016 challenger would be any less so. Hence, taking on Dan in Ferrari could be an opportunity to set the record straight.

 

Why would you assume that his qualifying pace would be stronger than last year?

 

There seems to be this assumption that Vettel was very compromised last year in terms of peak pace.

[taran]

What’s with all this Daniel bashing bashing?

 

Nobody seems to be suggesting that he’s a mediocre driver, just that one successful season in somewhat special circumstances doesn’t make one a F1 great.

 

Ricciardo is a pretty good driver but he’s still establishing himself as a first rate driver. One successful year is not enough to establish this pedigree. Beating an off key 4- time champ doesn’t make one a 4-time champ. Its winning championships that makes one a champ.

 

Firstly, Ricciardo has to prove himself a good team leader at Red Bull and ideally help them back up the ladder. Only then, at least IMO, can he be considered a first rate driver.

[Nonesuch]

"Daniel Ricciardo did the fastest ever lap of the Yas Marina circuit during the second young drivers’ test day.
He beat Sebastian Vettel’s pole position time by more than a second in the latter stages of the final test day"

 
Nobody doubts Ricciardo is a solid driver and that he did a good job against Vettel last season.
 
But what is this supposed to prove or illustrate? The qualifying for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix takes place at sunset, the testing during the day and with significantly different track conditions after a full weekend of racing. As the linked article shows, Jerome d’Ambrosio in the less than world-conquering Renault R30 also went faster than Vettel's pole time.

Edited by Nonesuch, 09 June 2015 - 08:10.

[DILLIGAF]

Firstly, Ricciardo has to prove himself a good team leader at Red Bull and ideally help them back up the ladder. Only then, at least IMO, can he be considered a first rate driver.

While RBR continue with a Renault power plant Dan has no chance of leading the team back up the ladder. Dan's a driver, not a mechanic/engineer/designer/magician!

[aramos]

. Beating an off key 4- time champ doesn’t make one a 4-time champ. Its winning championships that makes one a champ.

 

 

Give him the car and I'm sure he'd deliver. He beat everyone bar the two factory Mercedes drivers last year and they had a gigantic hardware advantage. There were a lot of established drivers in comparable hardware behind him in the championship.

[BCM]

 

Firstly, Ricciardo has to prove himself a good team leader at Red Bull and ideally help them back up the ladder. Only then, at least IMO, can he be considered a first rate driver.

 

All he can do is continue to come out on top of his team mate. 

 

He can provide feedback on the handling of the car, but there is very little he can do about the PU side of things. And as has been proven comprehensively over the last 18 months, F1 is now definitively an engine driven formula.

 

I fear for his career if he's stuck in for another year in a non-competitive Redbull. As many have stated, F1 is a fickle game and today's hero can quickly fade off the radar.

 

I think he proved enough last year to be considered good enough to sit in any of the cars on the grid. However F1 isn't just about who's the fastest. It's about being the fastest in the team that has the fastest car.

[rasul]

Eh, the way he caught the eye had nothing to do with relative car performance.
 
It was the way he went about racing/overtaking that made him a superstar.

Well, so far this season there's little evidence of his great racing/overtaking abilities(his move against Kimi was horrible), so you can't say that the car doesn't matter and it was all Dan. The car always matters. An imperfect car often suits one driver more than the other, making him look better than he is.  Last year's car was likely the sweet spot for Dan, making racing more comfortable for him than for his teammate, which doesn't seem to be the case now.
Don't get me wrong: Dan is definitely talented, with great potential, but he still has a lot to prove this season. If he had showed some greatness at STR prior to going to RBR, I wouldn't doubt him, but one season in such special circumstances is just not enough to accurately judge any driver's ability, because a driver's form and performance can fluctuate a lot, depending on the car/regulations. Maintaining that form for many years is what makes one a top driver. A top driver can have an off season(though he should always bounce back after such a season), but one good season doesn't make one a top driver. I'll be watching Dan this season closely and I hope he can prove himself again. 

Edited by rasul, 09 June 2015 - 08:58.

[aramos]

Well, so far this season there's little evidence of his great racing/overtaking abilities(his move against Kimi was horrible), so you can't say that the car doesn't matter and it was all Dan. The car always matters. An imperfect car often suits one driver more than the other, making him look better than he is.  Last year's car was likely the sweet spot for Dan, making racing and overtaking more comfortable for him.
Don't get me wrong: Dan is definitely talented, with great potential, but he has a lot to prove yet this season. If he had showed some greatness at STR prior to going to RBR, I wouldn't doubt him, but one season in such special circumstances is just not enough to accurately judge any driver's ability, because a driver's form and performance can fluctuate a lot, depending on the car/regulations. Maintaining that form for many years is what makes one a top driver. A top driver can have an off season(though he should always bounce back after such a season), but one good season doesn't make one a top driver. I'll be watching Dan this season closely and I hope he can prove himself. 

 

You don't overtake a faster car around the outside of turn 2 at Hungary if you don't have race craft. Particularly considering how much pressure he was under. Ricciardo had more impressive moves last year alone than some drivers do their entire career.

 

Its not surprising he hasn't been able to replicate it in this years Renault, the car is severely underpowered and every move is nothing but a dive.

[aramos]

 

I think he proved enough last year to be considered good enough to sit in any of the cars on the grid. However F1 isn't just about who's the fastest. It's about being the fastest in the team that has the fastest car.

 

Yeah I agree. I think fan opinion is already swinging against him. Last year many considered him outright better than Vettel but because Vettel has a very good car this year and Ricciardo is in a midfield shitter its easy to get a coloured view of their respective races. Everything Vettel does in that Ferrari looks good, it can pass easily, manages its tyres well and has excellent pace, meanwhile Ricciardo's car does nothing but move backwards as its sitting pray on the straights and he spends his races involved in scraps with very desperate uncompromising drivers.

 

It certainly doesn't help that Vettel has now inherited hordes of tifosi fans who are out to argue their new hero is better and last year was a one time event.

Edited by aramos, 09 June 2015 - 09:00.

[topical]

Yeah I agree. I think fan opinion is already swinging against him. Last year many considered him outright better than Vettel but because Vettel has a very good car this year and Ricciardo is in a midfield shitter its easy to get a coloured view of their respective races. Everything Vettel does in that Ferrari looks good, it can pass easily, manages its tyres well and has excellent pace, meanwhile Ricciardo's car does nothing but move backwards as its sitting pray on the straights and he spends his races involved in scraps with very desperate uncompromising drivers.

 

Exactly, same as Hamilton and all the stupid comments about "he's driving on another level to anyone else on the grid". Er, no, he only has one competitor, and that's Robserg, and he's driving on another level to him, end of story. That the fanboys pump this stuff out is no surprise, but in F1 even the pundits tend to make the mistake of "faster teammate in best car = best driver on grid". With Vettel just the same. Last year he was "exposed, overrated", this year he's beating an over-the-hill Raikkonen and suddenly 2014 becomes just an "off year" with him now "back to his best".

Believe me, another year or two in a mediocre Red Bull and Ricciardo's chances of a top drive will be gone for good.

Edited by topical, 09 June 2015 - 09:03.

[wj_gibson]

The "Bottas to Ferrari" story has so many legs that I think there must be something to it now.

Probably doesn't hurt that Bottas finished ahead of Kimi.

 

Ricciardo could do without Kvyat getting the better of him in the last couple of races. It wil lbe interesting to see how he reacts to that.

[aramos]

Exactly, same as Hamilton and all the stupid comments about "he's driving on another level to anyone else on the grid". Er, no, he only has one competitor, and that's Robserg, and he's driving on another level to him, end of story. That the fanboys pump this stuff out is no surprise, but in F1 even the pundits tend to make the mistake of "faster teammate in best car = best driver on grid". With Vettel just the same. Last year he was "exposed, overrated", this year he's beating an over-the-hill Raikkonen and suddenly 2014 becomes just an "off year" with him now "back to his best".

Believe me, another year or two in a mediocre Red Bull and Ricciardo's chances of a top drive will be gone for good.

 

It couldn't really have worked out better for Vettel. He got out of the sinking ship at Red Bull and his new team came gift wrapped with a team mate who is well past it. 

[rasul]

You don't overtake a faster car around the outside of turn 2 at Hungary if you don't have race craft. Particularly considering how much pressure he was under. Ricciardo had more impressive moves last year alone than some drivers do their entire career.
 
Its not surprising he hasn't been able to replicate it in this years Renault, the car is severely underpowered and every move is nothing but a dive.

That's not my point and I'm not saying he didn't do some great moves and demonstrated great race pace last season; he did. But where is his race craft this year? Forget about overtakes; his general race craft just hasn't been good lately. Suddenly his newbie teammate looks far more impressive. Does it mean Dan suddenly has no talent? No. It just means that every car is different and one driver can look much better in one car than he is in another. That's why I'm always wary of judging a driver by one season.

Edited by rasul, 09 June 2015 - 09:15.

[Crossmax]

Why would you assume that his qualifying pace would be stronger than last year?

 

There seems to be this assumption that Vettel was very compromised last year in terms of peak pace.

 

Why wouldn't his peak pace improve with a better feel for the car? It's hardly a far fetched assumption.

 

"So the new, mandatory ‘brake-by-wire’ systems this year mean Vettel has “lost part of his feeling for the car”, Horner said.

And “the driveability was really bad, so Seb could not look after the tyres in the way that he always has done,” he added.

Horner said Vettel used to drive a bit “like a ballerina, dancing on the throttle and the brakes”, which was not initially possible in 2014."

 

http://www.thisisf1....-2014-problems/