15 replies to this topic

[JoBo]

https://www.classicd...age/1960/254552

 

They never stop trying to get rid of that thing!

 

 

JoBo

[larryd]

Do we laugh now, or do we wait until we see how much some happy soul bids for it ???

 

Edited by larryd, 08 June 2015 - 23:43.

[Ray Bell]

What's the funny side to it?

[Allan Lupton]

The current vendor tells us a lot about legal battles, but has so little idea that (s)he states it is LHD. The photos show otherwise of course.

[JoBo]

The current vendor tells us a lot about legal battles, but has so little idea that (s)he states it is LHD. The photos show otherwise of course.

 

They can debate the car back and forth - it does not become any better.....

 

To collect parts and components does not make a car genuine.

 

JoBo

[Peter Morley]

At least they seem to be more honest about the origin of the parts, they don't appear to be claiming that any of the parts came from 2459 just unspecified Birdcage Maseratis.

The part about it being unmolested is surprising though.

[Tim Murray]

Agreed absolutely, and it's good to see. However, they then go on to make this claim:

With literally reams of documentation charting everything from the restoration to the legal proceedings in our possession, combined with a significant amount of independent research, it is clear beyond doubt that the vehicle that we have personally seen and driven in Suffolk is indeed the Maserati Tipo 61, chassis 2459.

Does anyone know anything about these alleged legal cases mentioned?

[RA Historian]

And so it goes. In all of their blathering, I amused by the claim that it is one of the most original examples. Heck, the original was scrapped and does not exist!

[Rob Miller]

It's a shame, really, because the car is a beautiful recreation or replica of a T60. Now that it is painted red all it has to do is lose the chassis plate and all the crap history can be forgotten.

[Ray Bell]

Would they really have used chrome-moly tube on the original?

[Allan Lupton]

Would they really have used chrome-moly tube on the original?

That, like the welding technique, is perhaps secret!

Perhaps thomasbrianwright knows?

[Peter Morley]

Would they really have used chrome-moly tube on the original?

Not sure about chrome-moly but the Italians apparently used decent materials for their chassis, even in the 30s Alfa Romeo frames were made from sophisticated steels (as has been used to verify/disprove a certain pre-war ex-Argentina Alfa).

 

The book Advanced Automotive Welding says that the Birdcage chassis was 4130 chrome-moly and that it was normal aircraft practice to oxyacetylene weld it, but that is a recent book.

[Ray Bell]

Real or not I'd love to see it...

I've never, to my recollection, seen a 'Birdcage' Maserati, we never had any here.

[Lee Nicolle]

Not sure about chrome-moly but the Italians apparently used decent materials for their chassis, even in the 30s Alfa Romeo frames were made from sophisticated steels (as has been used to verify/disprove a certain pre-war ex-Argentina Alfa).

 

The book Advanced Automotive Welding says that the Birdcage chassis was 4130 chrome-moly and that it was normal aircraft practice to oxyacetylene weld it, but that is a recent book.

Nickel bronze?

[D28]

From Vintage Motorsport  Aug 2006, respected Maserati writer Willem Oosthoek had this to say on the prototype Tipo 60:

 

" To promote stiffness the prototype chassis 2451 was built with the best and most expensive steel available.However within the first few test laps by Moss various welding points of the chassis developed unexpected breakages. It was only then that Alfieri realized that cheap inferior steel with a high tendency to flex would do a better job, with low grade tubes absorbing stress away from the welding points. Soon the 15 mm stress points were replaced and all subsequent cars featured low-grade steel tubes."

[D-Type]

I think there's a slight misunderstanding here, possibly due to poor translation.  For the same sized member, the grade of steel has no effect on its stiffness, ie how much it will deform under a given load, provided you do not exceed the yield point.  The strength, ie the yield point, is dependent on the grade to the extent it is the main parameter used to define a steel grade.  For welds, the brittleness, cracking and fatigue performance depends on the subgrade of a steel, normally its chemistry, but the performance does not correlate to the strength.