87 replies to this topic

[BlackCat]

any kind of "qualifying session" is artifical - just some sellable TV time. give them two sessions on friday and two sessions on saturday to sort the car out, best lap counts for grid position.

[ray b]

old way 2-3 days all times count set in long open practice sessions 

 

never liked the short sessions 1 lap one hour ect

worst is the tyre rules now

it should be Q on the fastest then race on tyres that last

and give all 4 types of tyres to every team at every race run what works for your car

if soft fronts and hard rears works best RUN THAT NOT THE TYRE CORPrat picks

 

park-unfairme sucks

 

engine rules only 4 sucks

[Donkey]

Today's F1 system is pretty near perfect now they have sorted out the issues with Q3 and teams not going out to save tyres. Could just do with a couple more teams and a bit more competition at the back of the field though...

 

2 x 1 lap qualifying (1st qualifying determining the order for the qualifying session which actually counted) was awful. Even the commentators had trouble trying to explain the order the cars were going out in

 

1 hour qualifying from what I can remember was dreadfully boring as well. I remember asking my dad pretty often why no cars were going out. And then there seemed to be some unwritten rule that the Minardis/Tyrells/Arrows/Jordans would have to eventually go out after 30 minutes in order to 'rubber in the track' for the Ferraris/Mclarens/Williams which hardly seemed fair.

Edited by Donkey, 10 June 2015 - 17:39.

[Marklar]

My dream qualifying would be
Q1: 10 minutes, last five knocked out
Q2: 10 minutes, last five knocked out
Q3: 10 minutes, last five knocked out
Q4: top 5 from Q3 driving successively in championship standing order (Hamilton to drive first) one single timed lap

For me currently Q2 und Q1 are too long, useless and boring. And a single lap driving in an Q4 with championship order would increase the chances of an non-Merc pole

[Kalmake]

Aggregate system had the ridiculous rule that you would start the race with same fuel load you had when going out for the first lap. So obviously they would try to burn fuel as much as possible during in and out laps. They had to introduce minimum lap time to stop cars from crawling round on the Saturday inlap. 

[PlatenGlass]

Agree completely. Current system is fair and keeps things interesting throughout but without being too gimmicky.

I think it's pretty much at the high end of gimmickiness at the moment.

The whole knockout system exists purely to keep up interest in the earlier parts of qualifying (i.e. it's just there for the show). As well as that, we have these weird tyre rules that mean that the top teams try to get through Q1 on slower tyres - also a way of contriving more of a show. And then we have the rule that says drivers who make it into Q3 have to use their Q2 tyres to start the race, whereas everyone else gets a free choice. Yes, it could be more gimmicky, but you'd be going some to achieve it.

[saudoso]

1 hour qualifying with 3 free exclusive tyres, one each 20'. To join the old and new systems.
Oh, and any tyre above these 3 from race quota.

And ditch parc ferme please.

Edited by saudoso, 10 June 2015 - 20:23.

[ANF]

I'm kind of tired of the knockout system in F1 where the top teams waste tyres in Q1 for no good reason.

Maybe they could try this:

• A 60-minute session with no breaks
• Eliminate the bottom 10 cars after 30 minutes
• Keep the times set by the top 10 cars
• Give them an extra set of tyres and let them improve on a less busy track the last 30 minutes

[SenorSjon]

Anyone who says the 1 hour free system was the best should watch some broadcast replays again. It was nothing but waiting until the last 5 minutes when everything was decided, barely a car went out on the first half hour, plus traffic on tracks like Monaco made it complete lottery sometimes. The idea to have warmup before the race and allow setup changes was good though.

 

Well, Q1-3 are just as fun now. Pole laps are still missed and the FOM graphics do a very lousy job in informing the viewer what is going on.

 

 

 

I'm kind of tired of the knockout system in F1 where the top teams waste tyres in Q1 for no good reason.

Maybe they could try this:

• A 60-minute session with no breaks
• Eliminate the bottom 10 cars after 30 minutes
• Keep the times set by the top 10 cars
• Give them an extra set of tyres and let them improve on a less busy track the last 30 minutes

 

 

I like this one, especially when times aren't scrapped after each Q session.

[Maustinsj]

How about a 60-minute session with no BRAKES?!

[SenorSjon]

That is pretty dangerous. Or do you mean commercial breaks?

Edited by SenorSjon, 11 June 2015 - 08:04.

[noikeee]

Aggregate system had the ridiculous rule that you would start the race with same fuel load you had when going out for the first lap. So obviously they would try to burn fuel as much as possible during in and out laps. They had to introduce minimum lap time to stop cars from crawling round on the Saturday inlap. 

 

I'm pretty sure that was after the aggregate system was scrapped, wasn't it around 2007 or so?

 

Anyway it was hilariously stupid. The worst thing was that it took the FIA like half a season to introduce the rule to stop it. There really was a lot of messing around with qualifying those years, it seemed like every 6 months you had new rules and every system had horrendous problems which were obvious from the start.

 

 

I'm kind of tired of the knockout system in F1 where the top teams waste tyres in Q1 for no good reason.

Maybe they could try this:

• A 60-minute session with no breaks
• Eliminate the bottom 10 cars after 30 minutes
• Keep the times set by the top 10 cars
• Give them an extra set of tyres and let them improve on a less busy track the last 30 minutes

 

 

There is a very good reason why these days qualifying is broken into several segments where you can't keep times from the previous segment - if it starts raining or the track gets slower for some other reason, absolutely nobody will come out. With your system you would risk 30 minutes of absolutely no action when this happens...

 

I know a single 60 mins session like the old days, sounds a lot simpler and less contrived than what we have now, but it has that (pretty big) problem.

Edited by noikeee, 11 June 2015 - 08:36.

[GSiebert]

I hate the current format, which is now applied to lots of other series just because F1 does it.

 

1 hour, unlimited number of laps was the best.

[noikeee]

Again, 1 hour, unlimited laps makes for terrible TV if it starts raining mid-session.

[vowcartaGP]

The worst was the one lap qualifying in two qualifying sessions. Remember Silverstone when rain was forecasted to the end of the second qualifying and everyone drove incredible slowly on porpuse just to drive at the beginning of the second qualifying where no rain was forecasted. At the end the complete qualifying stayed dry if I remember correctly.

Ah yes now that's why I liked the very brief aggregate system...you wouldn't get people deliberately going slowly. Was it with this aggregate system that Schumacher messed up his final qualifying run at Imola, and then had to start 13th as a result? Now THAT was a race

[TheCaptain]

Lots of rose tinting going on with the old 1 hour sessions - like much of the racing back then it was incredibly boring for 90% of the time.    It might as well have been the current Q3 that we have, but with all the cars running.

 

I personally like the current system - although it worked a little better when the field was bunched up a little more and the top teams still had to push in Q1.    It might be even more entertaining if the cars were limited to one flying lap in Q3 - then the drivers actually pay a price for a mistake much more than if they can't get a banker in.   

 

But really you have to think about what you want qualifying to be.     If you end up with the cars ranked in order of speed on race setup you're going to get pretty processional races.    What makes qualifying really interesting is when the teams can make big compromises to gain one lap pace and a higher grid slot, but sacrificing race performance.     The one upside of refueling and qualifying on race fuel was it offered this strategy.

[saudoso]

For the love of god.

 

BrEak:

 

BrakE:

Edited by saudoso, 11 June 2015 - 11:21.

[SenorSjon]

Again, 1 hour, unlimited laps makes for terrible TV if it starts raining mid-session.

 

With the current venues, how often does that happen? Once a season?

 

Lots of rose tinting going on with the old 1 hour sessions - like much of the racing back then it was incredibly boring for 90% of the time.    It might as well have been the current Q3 that we have, but with all the cars running.

 

I personally like the current system - although it worked a little better when the field was bunched up a little more and the top teams still had to push in Q1.    It might be even more entertaining if the cars were limited to one flying lap in Q3 - then the drivers actually pay a price for a mistake much more than if they can't get a banker in.   

 

But really you have to think about what you want qualifying to be.     If you end up with the cars ranked in order of speed on race setup you're going to get pretty processional races.    What makes qualifying really interesting is when the teams can make big compromises to gain one lap pace and a higher grid slot, but sacrificing race performance.     The one upside of refueling and qualifying on race fuel was it offered this strategy.

 

Qualifying on race fuel was a bandaid for the lack of one-lap wonders. With current rules for defending and DRS it is absolutely pointless to go for qualification speed, whereas in the past cars were setup for one lap and changed back for racesetup during Warm-Up. I still miss those F1-breakfasts. Anyhow, more than once the winner of Saturday wasn't the winner on Sunday.

[Maustinsj]

For the love of god.

 

BrEak:

 

BrakE:

 

WHOOOSH!

[Frank Tuesday]

Again, 1 hour, unlimited laps makes for terrible TV if it starts raining mid-session.

 

So what.  The best qualifying system and the best TV show aren't necessarily the same thing.  Orphan Black is entertaining TV, but it would make a terrible qualifying system. 

 

For all of the technical and sporting regulation items I dislike about F1, in my eyes, nothing has ruined F1 more than worrying about entertaining mindless idiots half-watching the TV while they check their facebook status.  If you're trying to figure out what is the best way to organize cars for the start of a race, TV should be the last of your concerns.        

[saudoso]

WHOOOSH!

Love you're sig.

[vowcartaGP]

The one lap system did also give the smaller teams more TV exposure as well, which would certainly help in today's climate

[Maustinsj]

Love you're sig.

 

Thank's 

[SenorSjon]

The one lap system did also give the smaller teams more TV exposure as well, which would certainly help in today's climate

Most people tuned in after they had run a lap or watch with half their attention.

[TomNokoe]

I'd make one small tweak to the current system, make Q3 single-lap. Wouldn't take up any extra time.

If weather is iffy then revert to normal format.

[TimRTC]

I think it's pretty much at the high end of gimmickiness at the moment.
 

 

Really? It is still better than much of what is out there.

 

My least favourite system at the moment is the WTCC with their two race format - race 2 is always formed of the first race grid, with the top ten reversed. The result is drivers are competing to get placed 10th and over the weekend a 5th place grid position is worse than someone who places lower down the grid. At least with the BTCC and F3 using reversed grids they have three races on a weekend so the reverse grid race does not count for 50% of the scores.

 

I like the format used by MSV F4 where the second race is based on second fastest qualifying times - avoids a driver getting away with one very fast lap and then relaxing.

 

I'm not sure why people want a return to the F1 hour session. It was 50 minutes of watching a back marker or two slowly circulate, then a meleé of all the other cars and everyone complaining about traffic. At least the current session adds some drama and forces drivers to earn pole position with at least three fast laps. It also gives much more interest to fans on TV and trackside.

 

[PlatenGlass]

Really? It is still better than much of what is out there.

Well maybe. I suppose I meant "high end" as in it's highly gimmicky rather than it's more gimmicky than the opposition. We must just live in gimmicky times!
 
 

I'm not sure why people want a return to the F1 hour session. It was 50 minutes of watching a back marker or two slowly circulate, then a meleé of all the other cars and everyone complaining about traffic. At least the current session adds some drama and forces drivers to earn pole position with at least three fast laps. It also gives much more interest to fans on TV and trackside.

I don't think it was quite that extreme. They had 12 laps, so even if they did nothing for as long as possible from the start, they'd need a lot more than 10 minutes. Also, I think it was a bit stupid having an hour session but then limiting them to 12 laps. I see no need for a lap limit. They can still limit tyres, but with more durable tyres, they could be out for quite a lot of the session. There were times when the tyres were durable enough for two runs of six laps (four flying laps), so four sets of tyres like that and you've got a lot of running.

And also, while I think it should be one session with no knockouts, it doesn't even need to be an hour. If they made it 30 or 40 minutes and it was a bit more action-packed then that would be fine by me.

[Fatgadget]

For the love of god.

 

BrEak:

 

BrakE:

But you know wot he is on about!..Why the pedancy?

[Spillage]

Unpopular though this may be, I liked 1 lap qualifying. Nowadays in F1 we miss most of the pole lap - we only really see the cars coming across the line. Back then we'd see every second of every lap - from Zsolt Baumgartner's Minardi to Michael Schumacher's Ferrari. How was the Marussia handling in Montreal? I've no idea; we never got chance to see. 1 lap qualifying would have given us that chance (though, of course, changing track conditions can make for unrepresentative grids.) Still, a spiced-up grid once in a while is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Fastcake]

I'm not sure why people want a return to the F1 hour session. It was 50 minutes of watching a back marker or two slowly circulate, then a meleé of all the other cars and everyone complaining about traffic. At least the current session adds some drama and forces drivers to earn pole position with at least three fast laps. It also gives much more interest to fans on TV and trackside.
 

 

The current system essentially is the one hour session, except it's found a way to ensure more cars are on track for the duration and to cut down on traffic in the final 10 minutes. I can't see any reason to go back now that we've fixed the major problems we had in the past.

[Marklar]

Unpopular though this may be, I liked 1 lap qualifying. Nowadays in F1 we miss most of the pole lap - we only really see the cars coming across the line. Back then we'd see every second of every lap - from Zsolt Baumgartner's Minardi to Michael Schumacher's Ferrari. How was the Marussia handling in Montreal? I've no idea; we never got chance to see. 1 lap qualifying would have given us that chance (though, of course, changing track conditions can make for unrepresentative grids.) Still, a spiced-up grid once in a while is not necessarily a bad thing.

I understand your point and I really liked it as well because you could see every lap and could exactly see where the driver is loosing time. I found that interesting. Eventrought I think that someone who is watching randomly F1 wont liked it. And when the qualifying was rain affected it was pretty unfair.

[mangeliiito]

DTM's with one lap each in Q4 is quite nice, but I would like to watch more cars than four.

And I've been thinking maybe an hour session with the average/combination of two laptimes. One for the first 30 minutes and one for the last. All the cars on track all the time. A bit complicated I know, but if FOM could sort out their problems with the graphics, maybe. Or maybe not for F1 but some series maybe?

The current one would improve alot with some of the MotoGP graphics, so even if the time of a driver isn't running at the bottom, you could see who messed up, who just made a purple sector or a personal best. Would give alot more insight instead of only listen to what the commentators choose to tell you or having to use splitvision to see the live timing.

[Marklar]

Or they could do the same as the WEC or the Moto GP. In the WEC the best time from the practise is your qualifying time (don't like it that much). In Moto GP the combinated top 10 from the practise sessions are qualified for the Q2, the others have to drive in Q1 (the two best are getting to Q2). I really like the Moto GP qualifying. It upgrade the practise massively and it isn't so useless for the front-runners as the current qualifying (until Q3 Mercedes, Ferrari and Williams are basicly doing practise). But to be honest: The qualifying is one of the smallest problem in F1....

[Myrvold]

But you know wot he is on about!..Why the pedancy?

Because some things are utterly frustrating to read again and again!

[Donkey]

How about a 60-minute session with no BRAKES?!

 

But you know wot he is on about!..Why the pedancy?

I assumed he was wishing for some sort of death race 2000 style qualifying session with drivers seeing how fast they can go without killing themselves going into a barrier at 100mph (imagine Monaco qualifying with no brakes!)

 

Brakes vs breaks isn't hard to differentiate, especially on a motorsports forum. It's not even an Americanism so no excuses there either.

[OO7]

Drivers are less inclined to push to the absolute limit with single lap qualifying, so no thank you from me.

[saudoso]

The offending post was edited and it wasn't the '60 minutes with no breaks' neither '60 minutes with no brakes' .

Edited by saudoso, 12 June 2015 - 22:38.

[RacingDuck]

It was just about bearable if you were watching on TV, but it was boring to watch trackside.

I can imagine so