93 replies to this topic

[RubalSher]

You dont need to sell Hamilton to me and yes he has the hunger for winning. Nothing but the top step of the podium will suffice unlike most other drivers. As a comparison, Ric was laughing away his worst race this year and that is why he will never be a champion.

 

I dont get the criticism of Merc though. In comparison, RBR clearly had a #1 driver and a #2 lap dog in their championship winning years. Alonso was gifted all the resources and priority in his Ferrari years to the extent that they even blatantly violated team orders in his first year at Ferrari in Germany.

 

Merc by comparison have kept the battles between the two interesting and the only reason why last season may have been worth watching for non Merc fans. Lewis obviously did more than advised by the pit wall in Hungary and Italy last year and it worked for him. He also needed no help in Suzuka or Austin to make those passes stick on Nico. He defended in Bahrain and for the most part last year he was able to make his tyres last longer and use lesser fuel than Nico.

 

So yes, he is the complete package and to the contrary, I believe Merc are letting their drivers race more than they should. Ferrari are much closer this year and Merc needs to back Lewis for the title.

[Kristian]

Does anybody else find, in his approach to racing on the radio, that he's extremely negative? I find every race he seems to be in, he finds something to get stressed about - and I really don't know why. Without wanting to detract from the point of the thread, I find that both his attitude in races and in his personal life seems to be to be mired in drama - whether its his contract, his relationships, or indeed his tyres, fuel or engine (please don't start replying to me about my comments on non-racing issues, as I'm just highlighting the parallels). Maybe as he's the champion he gets more radio airing, but I just find he makes a meal of races/circumstances when its unnecessary. He's in the best car on the grid yet listening to his transmissions you wouldn't think so. 

 

Maybe I'm being unfair, but its this approach that makes it very difficult to warm to him. He doesn't have the chirpiness of domination that Vettel had, for example. 

[P123]

Does anybody else find, in his approach to racing on the radio, that he's extremely negative? I find every race he seems to be in, he finds something to get stressed about - and I really don't know why. Without wanting to detract from the point of the thread, I find that both his attitude in races and in his personal life seems to be to be mired in drama - whether its his contract, his relationships, or indeed his tyres, fuel or engine (please don't start replying to me about my comments on non-racing issues, as I'm just highlighting the parallels). Maybe as he's the champion he gets more radio airing, but I just find he makes a meal of races/circumstances when its unnecessary. He's in the best car on the grid yet listening to his transmissions you wouldn't think so. 
 
Maybe I'm being unfair, but its this approach that makes it very difficult to warm to him. He doesn't have the chirpiness of domination that Vettel had, for example.

Where to begin. I guess a prejudiced perception can't really be argued against. Maybe Hamilton's personal life which you follow influences how you take things said over the radio. Only F1 fans seem daft enough to constantly get worked up over radio comms, and have an emotional deficiency that makes them unable to empathise with things said in the heat of battle (some of you lot seem to think they should phrase things so that lawyer couldn't pick them apart). To claim that Vettel is a counter example tells me you hear what you want to hear, and are probably being a tad unfair

Edited by P123, 09 June 2015 - 19:28.

[NateF]

Respectability politics, eh? Well since its Hamilton, I guess it was a matter of when, not if.

[ninetyzero]

I haven't. He's still a great driver who ruins it by being a complete tit off the track.

[GoldenColt]

I haven't. He's still a great driver who ruins it by being a complete tit off the track.

 

You must've spend a lot of time with him, right? How could you otherwise know how he is off the track?

Edited by GoldenColt, 09 June 2015 - 19:45.

[P123]

I haven't. He's still a great driver who ruins it by being a complete tit off the track.

Don't you mean "erse" Father Jack?

[sennafan24]

I haven't. He's still a great driver who ruins it by being a complete tit off the track.

Feck off 

[Markn93]

Does anybody else find, in his approach to racing on the radio, that he's extremely negative? I find every race he seems to be in, he finds something to get stressed about - and I really don't know why. 

Because unlike JB who has been rather witty and humorous with his in-race messages, Lewis is actually racing. Not only that but in what I can only imagine is an extremely stressful environment as a race victory is on the line every time he gets in the car. Also, he's doing his job in driving the thing as well as he is, not unreasonable to hold his engineers and team members to the same high standards. And finally he's friendly with all the team members outside of the car high-fiving etc and we heard his nice thank you message to his crew before the race so I think the negativity of which you speak is over-blowing the situation, but if you're only or main critique of him is this and this alone, well frankly, I'll take it. 

[Nonesuch]

You dont need to sell Hamilton to me and yes he has the hunger for winning. Nothing but the top step of the podium will suffice unlike most other drivers.

 

"Most other drivers"? Like who? Alonso? Button? Pérez? Massa? Ricciardo? Bottas? Hülkenberg?

 

Everybody wants to win, but not everybody can. This is autosport after all. Getting the most out of the car is all the drivers can do. When everything comes together they have more than enough reason to be proud and happy with themselves and the team. That happiness over a mere fifth place says nothing about their desire to win races.

 

Drivers can have all the 'hunger for winning' in the world but they won't be going anywhere without the car to make it happen.

 

As a comparison, Ric was laughing away his worst race this year and that is why he will never be a champion.

 
That's just pop-psychology. Häkkinen was a master of making the driest of jokes when he hit proverbial rock bottom, and it didn't stop him from winning as as many titles as Hamilton has.
 

RBR clearly had a #1 driver and a #2 lap dog in their championship winning years.

 
So much so that the so-called lap dog was leading the supposed #1 driver in the WDC table going into the final race of 2010.

 

Hamilton doesn't need anyone attempting to drag others down to make him look good by comparison.

 

Hamilton is a great driver. His driving and his results prove that to anyone willing to take notice.

[RekF1]

I feel like this thread is about Merc having just one strategist more than about your (change of) opinion about Hamilton.

I share your opinion that Merc doesn't fully allow their drivers to race one another, although they want people to believe so.

Engineers telling drivers to wait for the end of the race before trying to get past, or to let Nico through a la Hungary 2014 after an amazing recovery from Lewis, is the opposite of racing IMO.

One strategist, in the heat of the race, will always focus on one driver more than the other. I don't get Toto's stubbornness in this regard.

Regarding Lewis he's definitely matured and gained more fans since his move to Merc. Almost makes me wish Ron had sent him to Williams for a couple years before signing him at Mc. But then who knows? He may never have been a World Champion.

 

As the OP pointed out, I believe the Hungary thing was a desperate attempt to keep the two drivers as far apart for as long as possible.  If there were two strategists, they would've had both drivers on the best tyre and Lewis could've attacked Alonso instead of being asked to let his mate past. They would've bettered 3rd and 4th anyway. They did it all the way up to Hungary really. always running alternate tyres after the 1st pit-stop etc.

[RealRacing]

Nico tried to pass Hamilton in 2/19 races last year. Where is this change you speak of? "level of 'racing'" "don't think" "some kind of".... You're reaching. You know, in the golden age of 'real racing' cars used to follow each other all race without a sniff of an attempted passing manoeuvre.

Before you get nervous about me implying that they have some kind of TOs that benefit HAM, remain calm. At a basic level of understanding, last year was more competitive between HAM and ROS than this year has been so far. My opinion about it is that Merc have become more conservative or hypocritical or both in their "we allow them to race" philosophy. It seems they try to keep the starting positions of their drivers, the error at Monaco notwithstanding. At this point, if I was NR, I would give it everything I have if I'm behind, especially if they talk about fuel. In his case, might as well finish last rather than second all the time. I guess we'll see the veracity of my supposition once and if HAM is behind more often.

[kvyatfan]

The Kardashian Illuminati is what changed my mind about him.

 

In all seriousness, I think he's a good driver. But unfortunately in a Vettelising supercar. And some of his fans are a bit over the top, to say the least, making it a bit difficult to join their camp.

[sosidge]

There is no need to write paragraphs about Hamilton.

 

Exceedingly talented driver. Rather fragile mind.

[MichaelPM]

Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton MBE is arguably the most talented road racer of his generation.

What a reckless past-time for a grand prix driver to partake in.

[PAGATRON]

The Kardashian Illuminati is what changed my mind about him.

 

In all seriousness, I think he's a good driver. But unfortunately in a Vettelising supercar. And some of his fans are a bit over the top, to say the least, making it a bit difficult to join their camp.

I didn't know Vettel built supercars.

[Atreiu]

My opinion hasn't changed. His speed was never in doubt.

 

His race craft has evolved and it was all a matter of eliminating ridiculous mistakes and conquering the cold minded consistency very few pilots ever muster. There was a glimpse of it in 2012, but McLaren failed to deliver a reliable packaged and his incredible performance (say whatever you want, he was the best pilot that season, and in 2010 too) went largely unrewarded. Then, after some topsy turvy times in 2013 and 2014, he seems to have finally accomplished it.

 

And now both Mercedes and him mutually benefit from their incredible form and consistency.

[kvyatfan]

I didn't know Vettel built supercars.

 

It says 'Vettelising' not 'Vettel-built'.

[Loops]

Seems like you used Hamilton as clickbait for your thoughts on Merc.
 
The equalisation policy has been well discussed. I am not a fan of it. It's written in Nico's contract, so it was surprising to hear his frustration after Montreal, but I could see his point.
 
It's unfair to criticise Merc though, they're doing everything they can to make the WDC competitive. The fault does not lie with them, but with how F1 is set up. I'd prefer two strategists and have Nico and Lewis race all out, but F1 is not just a WDC. It is also a WCC, and that is what all the teams prioritise.
 
It's my opinion that the WCC and the WDC are in conflict. I know it's always been like that, but it doesn't cut it anymore. The WCC's impact on the WDC is too negative, and this is something felt throughout the field not just the front.
 
Merc have been the most generous about allowing their drivers to race, I can't fault them. There's lots of discussion about F1's competitiveness, but ultimately if the rules of engagement dictate that teams and the WCC are rewarded for not letting their drivers race, then that is what will happen. And that is why we have equalisation. Both Lewis and Nico have to deal with it, so in that sense it is a fair fight between the drivers. Which is what Merc are aiming for; they're trying to let the drivers race as much as possible while still prioritising the WCC.

 

It is my opinion that a celebrity lifestyle is a fake and pretentious lifestyle. You may or may not agree with it, but that's why it's an opinion.
He's not friends with the people he used to be friends with growing up, and only associates with people who recognise him for his money and fame. Calling them friends is a stretch.

We can agree to disagree, I think. I've had my say.

He's still, in my opinion, probably the best and most exciting driver of the lot, to watch, and on that front I cannot fault him at all.

 

This isn't true at all. You've made that up to fit your biased opinion. He's still friends with those he's known since growing up. There's a few pictures on twitter and did you miss last season's brouhaha, when he made it clear about who he considers a close friend? They're not in motorsport, and they're not famous.

It's sad and amazing how Lewis is criticised for saying one thing, which is then duly forgotten when it runs counter to something else he's being criticised for. It's as if everything he does is in a vacuum. I'm not a fan of his celeb associations, but to say they're his only friends and to act like that's his whole life, when all you're seeing is a fraction, is rubbish.

[P123]

Before you get nervous about me implying that they have some kind of TOs that benefit HAM, remain calm. At a basic level of understanding, last year was more competitive between HAM and ROS than this year has been so far. My opinion about it is that Merc have become more conservative or hypocritical or both in their "we allow them to race" philosophy. It seems they try to keep the starting positions of their drivers, the error at Monaco notwithstanding. At this point, if I was NR, I would give it everything I have if I'm behind, especially if they talk about fuel. In his case, might as well finish last rather than second all the time. I guess we'll see the veracity of my supposition once and if HAM is behind more often.

Is that not just all a consequence of Hamilton qualifying ahead? As I said previously, Nico made attempts to pass in two races last season (three if you count the first corner at Russia). Two races out of nineteen. I don't see any evidence that they try to keep the status quo from the starting grid. Saving fuel is down to the regulations, not Mercedes policy. It's not as if only one is required to save fuel.

[robefc]

As the OP pointed out, I believe the Hungary thing was a desperate attempt to keep the two drivers as far apart for as long as possible.  If there were two strategists, they would've had both drivers on the best tyre and Lewis could've attacked Alonso instead of being asked to let his mate past. They would've bettered 3rd and 4th anyway. They did it all the way up to Hungary really. always running alternate tyres after the 1st pit-stop etc.

 

Hungary - team orders when drivers are on different strategies is hardly a new thing, ask Nick Heidfeld for a good example that is somewhat topical given we have just been to Canada.

Alternate tyres is a way of giving the other driver a better chance of attacking the leader, otherwise you just get a nice procession as Nico explained in his post processional race in Canada comments. That is unless it's Lewis behind Nico but you can't expect Merc to hobble Lewis in qualifying just so they can show they are allowing them to race in the actual GP....it's really not their fault that the faster driver is qualifying ahead and then having little trouble keeping his teammate behind, one gp and a clusterfork of a pit strategy excepted.

[Marklar]

Can someone explain me why we need an new thread for discussing the Merc team policy? It's pretty clear in my opinion: they don't let them race after all. Since Bahrain last year they either try to put them on different strategys or they give radio messages like "Save your tyres to attack on the final laps" which Hamilton fortunately always ignores. Nico is following this instructions or he can't go faster anyway.

[ninetyzero]

You must've spend a lot of time with him, right? How could you otherwise know how he is off the track?

 

We used to be close, but he changed man. Never see him no more, too busy hanging with celebrities and stuff...

[mclarensmps]

This isn't true at all. You've made that up to fit your biased opinion. He's still friends with those he's known since growing up. There's a few pictures on twitter and did you miss last season's brouhaha, when he made it clear about who he considers a close friend? They're not in motorsport, and they're not famous.

 

First of all, if you think I'm being biased AGAINST Lewis Hamilton, you've clearly not been on this board a long time. You need only to look at my posting history, which you won't do, so I won't bother.

 

Secondly, I haven't made this up, one of the first things he did when he got money was dump his girlfriend to go out with the pussycat doll  , who in turn tried to use him to ignite (and then reignite) her own singing career... which failed.

 

People get money, they dump their hangers ons and move to the next best things. It happens.

 

You're asking me to use twitter as a source, where he's going on about his "bro" Tiny Temper and his main man, Drake. No thanks.

[RealRacing]

Is that not just all a consequence of Hamilton qualifying ahead? As I said previously, Nico made attempts to pass in two races last season (three if you count the first corner at Russia). Two races out of nineteen. I don't see any evidence that they try to keep the status quo from the starting grid. Saving fuel is down to the regulations, not Mercedes policy. It's not as if only one is required to save fuel.

Well, you heard what ALO said in Canada when told to save fuel? Has HAM made attempts on Nico when starting behind this year? And I'm not referring to keeping the starting grid status quo but avoiding, as much as possible, an on-track encounter.

[DinosaursRoarForHugs]

First of all, if you think I'm being biased AGAINST Lewis Hamilton, you've clearly not been on this board a long time. You need only to look at my posting history, which you won't do, so I won't bother.

 

Secondly, I haven't made this up, one of the first things he did when he got money was dump his girlfriend to go out with the pussycat doll  , who in turn tried to use him to ignite (and then reignite) her own singing career... which failed.

 

People get money, they dump their hangers ons and move to the next best things. It happens.

 

You're asking me to use twitter as a source, where he's going on about his "bro" Tiny Temper and his main man, Drake. No thanks.

 

I like the rebrand

[Hamandeggs]

hmmm, attention seeking thread??

 

nothing to see here for a lewis F1 fan like me

[noikeee]

.If F1 were to have only one rule, it should be that teams can't prevent their drivers from racing each other. However, as there are, incredibly, many fans of this sport that still support TOs, I don't see what many are complaining about.

 

I don't think many fans like TOs... most people realize it's impossible to ban them though, so it's just easier to accept them and have them legal.

[CHIUNDA]

Very carefully worded OP that seems to be really about supporting Nico's ackward rant about the team's equalisation policy.

Unfortunately after Nico's infamous whining about Lewis winning a race whilst slowing him down earlier in the year, I stopped taking his cheap politics seriously.

Edited by CHIUNDA, 10 June 2015 - 00:48.

[Loops]

First of all, if you think I'm being biased AGAINST Lewis Hamilton, you've clearly not been on this board a long time. You need only to look at my posting history, which you won't do, so I won't bother.

 

Secondly, I haven't made this up, one of the first things he did when he got money was dump his girlfriend to go out with the pussycat doll  , who in turn tried to use him to ignite (and then reignite) her own singing career... which failed.

 

People get money, they dump their hangers ons and move to the next best things. It happens.

 

You're asking me to use twitter as a source, where he's going on about his "bro" Tiny Temper and his main man, Drake. No thanks.

 

Well, you obviously follow his personal life more than I do. But you said he only has celeb friends and none from pre-fame, that is false. That is what I'm responding to.

[aramos]

You dont need to sell Hamilton to me and yes he has the hunger for winning. Nothing but the top step of the podium will suffice unlike most other drivers. As a comparison, Ric was laughing away his worst race this year and that is why he will never be a champion.

 

 

Ricciardo looked incredibly unhappy and downbeat, just because he chooses to laugh instead of put on the mope face doesn't mean he has any less desire to win.

[RealRacing]

I don't think many fans like TOs... most people realize it's impossible to ban them though, so it's just easier to accept them and have them legal.

Notice I didn't say "like". If people think like that, meaning that they are impossible to ban, they are, in a way, supporting them. Everything is possible; maybe the control can't be perfect but it could reduce them as much as possible. How people can demand more racing and still be OK with TOs is beyond me.

[ViMaMo]

Why shouldn't the team not inform the driver in front? Wouldn't that be unfair?

[Lemans]

First of all, if you think I'm being biased AGAINST Lewis Hamilton, you've clearly not been on this board a long time. You need only to look at my posting history, which you won't do, so I won't bother.

 

Secondly, I haven't made this up, one of the first things he did when he got money was dump his girlfriend to go out with the pussycat doll  , who in turn tried to use him to ignite (and then reignite) her own singing career... which failed.

 

People get money, they dump their hangers ons and move to the next best things. It happens.

 

You're asking me to use twitter as a source, where he's going on about his "bro" Tiny Temper and his main man, Drake. No thanks.

 

He 'hangs' with Drake? Enough said, then.

Edited by Lemans, 10 June 2015 - 04:34.

[SR388]

First of all, if you think I'm being biased AGAINST Lewis Hamilton, you've clearly not been on this board a long time. You need only to look at my posting history, which you won't do, so I won't bother.

Secondly, I haven't made this up, one of the first things he did when he got money was dump his girlfriend to go out with the pussycat doll , who in turn tried to use him to ignite (and then reignite) her own singing career... which failed.

People get money, they dump their hangers ons and move to the next best things. It happens.

You're asking me to use twitter as a source, where he's going on about his "bro" Tiny Temper and his main man, Drake. No thanks.

Jenson button did the same thing except she was pregnant. She allegedly had an abortion in order to help his career.

So I don't know why you only hit lewis with that.

This thread reeks of jealousy and also a lot of weird interest and criticism into Hamilton's off the track life. The guy is a celebrity, why are you so dissapointed that he hangs out with other celebrities? Furthermore why do you care? He does his job better than anyone in Grand Prix racing right now, so what's the problem? It's not like he is shoving corner workers, pushing cameramen, getting kicked out of clubs, or falling off a boat drunk.

Edited by SR388, 10 June 2015 - 04:27.

[loki]

Ricciardo looked incredibly unhappy and downbeat, just because he chooses to laugh instead of put on the mope face doesn't mean he has any less desire to win.

Indeed and being publicly down about it may be a sign that he may not be at Red Bull too much longer.  Hamilton is good in a good car but struggles when the car isn't so good. Thus far Ricciardo has shown to be good in a car that's not so good.  Same with Alonso, both he and Ricciardo can wring the most out of a car that may not have it.  Much like Vettel (or even Kimi), I don't see Hamilton able to do that.  He needs the car to be to his liking or the secret sauce just isn't there.

Edited by loki, 10 June 2015 - 04:21.

[Peter0Scandlyn]

Had to give you a 'like' Blinky 'cause I love a good pi$$-take....

[OO7]

I don't see Hamilton able to do that.  He needs the car to be to his liking or the secret sauce just isn't there.

Where were you in 2009?

[loki]

Where were you in 2009?

Reading the coverage of Hamilton lying to Whiting...

[SR388]

Reading the coverage of Hamilton lying to Whiting...

Yep, that's relevant to the point 007 addressed.

[mclarensmps]

Jenson button did the same thing except she was pregnant. She allegedly had an abortion in order to help his career.

So I don't know why you only hit lewis with that.

This thread reeks of jealousy and also a lot of weird interest and criticism into Hamilton's off the track life. The guy is a celebrity, why are you so dissapointed that he hangs out with other celebrities? Furthermore why do you care? He does his job better than anyone in Grand Prix racing right now, so what's the problem? It's not like he is shoving corner workers, pushing cameramen, getting kicked out of clubs, or falling off a boat drunk.

 

What makes you think I hit only Lewis with that.

 

We're talking about Lewis in this thread, not anyone else. 

This factionism and myopia is exactly the reason why discussing and arguing on forums is a cancerous, futile exercise  .

 

You guys jump to his defense like you owe him a favour. Do the rest of us a favour...

 

Facts are facts: There will be people who like his skill, and like his character. Those who don't care for his skill, or care for his character, those who like his skill but dislike his character, and those who don't care for his skill, but like his character. The whole point of this thread is "changing opinions of hamilton". I used to like his character, now I don't. Same applies to Raikkonnen and Alonso, by the way. 

Need I remind you, Hamilton is my current favourite racing driver...

[SR388]

What makes you think I hit only Lewis with that.

We're talking about Lewis in this thread, not anyone else.

This factionism and myopia is exactly the reason why discussing and arguing on forums is a cancerous, futile exercise .

You guys jump to his defense like you owe him a favour. Do the rest of us a favour...

Facts are facts: There will be people who like his skill, and like his character. Those who don't care for his skill, or care for his character, those who like his skill but dislike his character, and those who don't care for his skill, but like his character. The whole point of this thread is "changing opinions of hamilton". I used to like his character, now I don't. Same applies to Raikkonnen and Alonso, by the way.

Need I remind you, Hamilton is my current favourite racing driver...

Facts are facts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am also entitled to my opinion on your opinion. It's what a forum is for. A discussion of ideas and topics.

[loki]

Yep, that's relevant to the point 007 addressed.

They had a poor car, he did poorly. They added a double diffusior and it got better.  It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out.  He's good in a good car, in fact spectacular, but not the guy you want in a car that's not so good.  And he's a whiner.  When the chips are down, so is he.

[SophieB]

To the half dozen or so of you who stayed on topic, cheers.

To everyone else who apparently saw the thread title and just never got beyond thinking "Lewis Hamilton? I don't like him!" and the people who would rather argue with that - please stop doing it. It is beyond tedious that any new discussion that even mentions Lewis Hamilton becomes a discussion instead about whether you'd like to be his friend or whether you find him annoying or like his girlfriend or not.

In the rules of this forum, there is guidance that asks people not to hijack threads because it's selfish and disrespectful to the poster who has put time and effort into starting their thread. This is what I see these endless 'Lewis? I'll tell you what's good/bad about Lewis..' responses as - thread hijacks. And they'll be moderated as such.