139 replies to this topic

[chumma]

http://t.co/XMePkm4Gm9

Makes sense, especially if they owe McLaren a bucket load of money or 'did' owe them. Gives Kevin and Stoffel seats for next year too and double the mileage Honda are getting now, makes perfect sense when you put all those factors together. But its F1, so who bloody knows

[Kristian]

This makes total sense, I've been saying it for ages. Button and Alonso in the senior team, Vandoorne and Magnussen in the junior team, and twice as much mileage for the engines. Perfect solution. 

 

Though F1 is now rapidly going towards B teams - Red Bull/STR, McLaren/Manor, Ferrari/Haas... 

[Fisico54]

No sources or even relevant quotes in the article just speculation. Then a shockingly ill informed section about Manor owing mclaren money - presumably written by somebody who doesn't understand administration

[paulogman]

Third time's a charm?

[SealTheDiffuser]

No sources or even relevant quotes in the article just speculation. Then a shockingly ill informed section about Manor owing mclaren money - presumably written by somebody who doesn't understand administration

 

still, it will happen

[McLobby]

It would be a very nice move for Honda and McLaren...

But I remember Manor saying that they can't wait to switch to the 2015 Ferrari engine, and how that would benefit the team..

[loki0420]

Would really like to see it happen whether it would be Manor or a new team. So McLaren would just put Kevin and Stoffel together and promote them accordingly.

[Imateria]

Not exactly a new rumour, this was being talked about in winter testing.

[Brother Fox]

It's a great way of McLaren Honda maintaining 2nd last position

[Brandz07]

Funny tie, but Honda signed Stevens as a 16 year old in 2008 when he was karting. Not sure when he was dropped from their program, presumably when the team folded later that year.

 

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/66553

Edited by Brandz07, 15 June 2015 - 11:57.

[muramasa]

No sources or even relevant quotes in the article just speculation. Then a shockingly ill informed section about Manor owing mclaren money - presumably written by somebody who doesn't understand administration

speedweek, the origin of numerous unfounded rumors regarding Honda in the past few years.

one time they even created "rumor in Japan"

http://forums.autosp...rged/?p=6735520

even if Manor Honda happen indeed, that no way means they were right, F1 is small world and there's only few possibilities so it's very easy to just guess and get it right.

[MustangSally]

World Exclusive

 

Manor Chooses Honda Power

 

Graeme Lowdon, Principal of Manor Racing, is delighted to announce the team's new partnership with Honda.

 

'F1 is all about experience', he said. 'Clearly, the Ferrari engines were far too reliable, giving us no practice in changing the many different components for every race. This is critically important for a young team. Next year, we hope to use at least 9 PU, 11 turbochargers, 12 MGU-H and 43 MGU-K.' 

 

'The lack of horsepower brings even more benefits', he added. 'With Ferrari, we are obliged to take part in the races and look silly. But Honda assures us that we are now unlikely to qualify inside the 107% rule, so basically we can have a nice cup of tea and watch the race.'

 

But Graeme would not be drawn on the closer co-operation with McLaren.

 

'I can't say who will be not driving for us next year. That's down to Ron. Maybe we are having a cup of tea with Jenson on Sunday . . .' 

 

 

[Risil]

No sources or even relevant quotes in the article just speculation. Then a shockingly ill informed section about Manor owing mclaren money - presumably written by somebody who doesn't understand administration

 

I'm so shocked that someone was ill-informed about Company Law that I literally fell of my chair and into the bin next to my desk. Everyone is now looking at me. Thanks a lot OP!

[SealTheDiffuser]

speedweek, the origin of numerous unfounded rumors regarding Honda in the past few years.

one time they even created "rumor in Japan"

http://forums.autosp...rged/?p=6735520

even if Manor Honda happen indeed, that no way means they were right, F1 is small world and there's only few possibilities so it's very easy to just guess and get it right.

 

you make no sense

[SealTheDiffuser]

I'm so shocked that someone was ill-informed about Company Law that I literally fell of my chair and into the bin next to my desk. Everyone is now looking at me. Thanks a lot OP!

 

original article in German makes a lot of sense

 

http://www.speedweek...-mit-Manor.html

 

and they speculate mainly on basis on Arai comments regarding a customer team and the transfer of Luca Furbatto to Manor...

 

and the rumors regarding the Hond aengine? not true? thirsty, Turbo problem, and underpowered, sacrficing power for aero...

 

get a grip

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 15 June 2015 - 12:25.

[Fastcake]

you make no sense

Muramasa makes perfect sense. It's a GMM article, which is nothing more than a collection of rumours and ill-founded speculation scraped from the internet. If you repeat every story going, eventually by sheer chance you're going to stumble upon the truth.

[Owen]

It's a great way of McLaren Honda maintaining 2nd last position

I hadn't thought of that 

[muramasa]

you make no sense

http://forums.autosp...-two/?p=6930997

http://forums.autosp...mans/?p=7013414

http://forums.autosp...rged/?p=6797892

 

You may like to believe your country's media is good or reliable but fact is they have been pretty irresponsible (not saying rubbish either of course but esp sweedweek i find them rather questionable). I'm presenting the cases/facts.

 

original article in German makes a lot of sense

 

http://www.speedweek...-mit-Manor.html

 

and they speculate mainly on basis on Arai comments regarding a customer team and the transfer of Luca Furbatto to Manor...

yeah that's exactly what you call "guesstimate", "haphazard" etc.

 

You may not know but Honda have been mentioning about supplying to 2nd teams ever since its F1 comeback announcement in May/June 2013.

http://car.watch.imp...702_605712.html

---------Q: Possibility of making customer supply?

• (Sato, Honda Motor's motorsport division chief) As for 2015, we are not thinking about supplying to teams other than Mclaren. However, 2016 and beyond, if we receive such offer from other teams, we'd like to think about it by holding talks. We'd like to do our best in order to contribute to F1, and such expectation for Honda would arise from within F1 by doing so.

 

Since then, they talked and mentioned about customer supply every 3 or 6 months to the media when such topic is questioned by media people, and what they speak and the tone have always been exactly the same. Recently Arai told to F1I site regarding this topic　http://en.f1i.com/ne...econd-team.html (I'd guess it was in a post Quali press session Mclaren always hold. Actually this headline of "keen to supply" is rather inappropriate as well) but there is absolutely nothing new in there.

 

For example this is from December 2014 http://www.f1-stinge.../21/054784.html

-------------Q: will be supplying to more teams if things go well in 2015?

• (Arai) At this moment, we are "mystery", and situation is that mystery calls another mystery (he's referring to Abu Dhabi test), so there is no offer at all. But participate in F1 means that you are ready to supply to several teams. Right now we are concentrating on working with McLaren, but if there is an offer, we wouldnt refuse it of course. We would like to fulfill our responsibility to contribute to F1.
• In order to be able to receive an offer, we have to make good result first and foremost. I hope we will be receiving offer.

 

Their comments, stance and tone havent changed at all ever since May 2013.

 

and the rumors regarding the Hond aengine? not true? thirsty, Turbo problem, and underpowered, sacrficing power for aero...

 

get a grip

What on earth have these got to do with rumor of Honda supplying to customer or Manor Honda?

You can make up complete false/fantasy story by putting together quotes and facts (u shud know that, dont pretend naive), and the point here is that that's what speedweek is doing (Arai quotes + Manor hiring, all borrowed from somewhere else to create Manor Honda, what an alchemist).

[johnmhinds]

This makes total sense, I've been saying it for ages. Button and Alonso in the senior team, Vandoorne and Magnussen in the junior team, and twice as much mileage for the engines. Perfect solution. 

 

Though F1 is now rapidly going towards B teams - Red Bull/STR, McLaren/Manor, Ferrari/Haas... 

 

Sure, if you want to kill off their careers...

 

Vandoorne might try it for a year, but Magnussen is probably looking at getting a seat at somewhere like Williams.

[Pete_f1]

As long as they get it for free, that would be good. 

[Abranet]

It may boil down to money for Manor but I can't see any team who would willingly take a Honda engine over a 2015/6 Ferrari lump.

[Red17]

As long as they get it for free, that would be good. 

 

Free Honda means Sato, still a better tradeoff than some oil paying drivers out there.

[Spillage]

I don't know if it's likely, but it sounds like a good idea to me. Mclaren made some noise about how they had an exclusive deal but Honda need mileage, and Manor are hardly a threat at the moment. Also, though it'd be a shame to lose Stevens, it'd be excited to see the return of Magnussen and the promotion of Vandoorne to the F1 grid.

[Dalin80]

while there is that whole smoke/fire thing it raises one big issue. With the expected pace drop on top of manor's already slow car they wouldn't be able to qualify for any event unless they get a 107% rule exemption at every race.

[SealTheDiffuser]

Free Honda means Sato, still a better tradeoff than some oil paying drivers out there.

 

rofl

[SealTheDiffuser]

I don't know if it's likely, but it sounds like a good idea to me. Mclaren made some noise about how they had an exclusive deal but Honda need mileage, and Manor are hardly a threat at the moment. Also, though it'd be a shame to lose Stevens, it'd be excited to see the return of Magnussen and the promotion of Vandoorne to the F1 grid.

 

it will help McLaren, it would be stupid not to do it (to have Manor as "Junior Honda McLaren team" with Stofftier und Kevin or the other next big thing)

[lustigson]

Although I wouldn't touch GMM content with a mile-long stick, it would make sense for both McLaren and Manor to join forces through Honda.

[Pontlieue]

At the moment, the Honda engines are completely uncompetetive. And considering Haas will use Ferrari engines, Manor would have a serious disadvantage in the battle for 10th place. So unless Honde improves significantly, or offers them a really good deal, I can't see that happening.

[tomjol]

15 June 2015 - 11h25, by GMM

 

[pdac]

I don't know exactly what the problems are with the Honda PU, but it wouldn't surprise me if they suddenly went from very slow and unreliable to significantly faster in a short space of time. Whether that will be this season or next (or the one after that or the one after that), I have no idea. But my guess is that you won't see little improvements so much as nothing (or even worse) followed by a big step forward.

 

So, if Manor did end up with Honda next year, I don't think it's guaranteed that it'll be step backwards from the 2015 Ferrari PU

[kapow]

Would Honda subsidise Manor to take their engines? It would have been a huge benefit to Honda this year as they could be getting twice the data.

Edited by kapow, 15 June 2015 - 20:21.

[MikeV1987]

I wonder if ART gp is involved somehow

[ZubairjMaster123]

Same here

[kapow]

Free Honda means Sato, still a better tradeoff than some oil paying drivers out there.

So they'd lose the sponsorship money and have to spend lots of money on new parts after he's crashed yet again?

How is that an improvement?

[MustangSally]

Would Honda subsidise Manor to take their engines? It would have been a huge benefit to Honda this year as they could be getting twice the data.

 

Um . . . they can't even supply one team two working engines .  . .

[kapow]

Um . . . they can't even supply one team two working engines . . .

Getting the extra data might help though. Stupid modern F1 with it's stupid testing rules.

[LORDBYRON]

It may boil down to money for Manor but I can't see any team who would willingly take a Honda engine over a 2015/6 Ferrari lump.

Exactly Manor get free engines of by the time they get them will be reliable and honda get cheap data 

 

 

 

At the moment, the Honda engines are completely uncompetetive. And considering Haas will use Ferrari engines, Manor would have a serious disadvantage in the battle for 10th place. So unless Honde improves significantly, or offers them a really good deal, I can't see that happening.

 

Hass cant claim prize money on the first year IIRC

Edited by LORDBYRON, 15 June 2015 - 21:08.

[SR388]

I hope they put some Japanese drivers in those seats. I am always on the lookout for the next Sato. The sport misses him. Plus, diversity on the grid is important.

[pdac]

Exactly Manor get free engines of by the time they get them will be reliable and honda get cheap data 

 

 

 

 

Hass cant claim prize money on the first year IIRC

 

That doesn't mean that they can't come 10th and stop Manor from getting it, though.

[Nathan]

I imagine more than anything this is McLaren's response to the HASS/Ferrari aero tie-up.  Without substantial McLaren support Manor would be a bad spot to put the young drivers and would make Honda engines look even worse.

[aramos]

I imagine more than anything this is McLaren's response to the HASS/Ferrari aero tie-up.  Without substantial McLaren support Manor would be a bad spot to put the young drivers and would make Honda engines look even worse.

 

I'm not really sure it would make the Honda engines look worse. They go several laps down every race now. 

[Radoye]

I guess it mahes sense to have both backmarker teams together under one roof.

 

(And i write this as a lifelong McLaren fan

[warp]

Free Honda means Sato, still a better tradeoff than some oil paying drivers out there.

 

Indeed!!!! Bring back Takuma Sato!

[Radoye]

Indeed!!!! Bring back Takuma Sato!

 

Nope. We need him in IndyCar!

[V8 Fireworks]

Sure, if you want to kill off their careers...

 

Vandoorne might try it for a year, but Magnussen is probably looking at getting a seat at somewhere like Williams.

 

Vandoorne is considered the better talent, Magnussen should be merry about this or not driving in F1 at all 

 

With the improved Honda engine and McLaren gearbox, plus some development time in McLaren wind tunnel, there is no reason the Manor can't be closer to the front on a lap time basis...  Of course they might still be in last place but better 2.9 seconds off pole than 3.5 seconds off pole.

[AustinF1]

Manor to switch to Honda

Heh...told y'all.

[DrF]

Hilarious if they beat Mclaren

[f1rules]

it would be the perfect solution in my opinion, more data for honda, mclaren can place kmag & vandor in the cars and mclaren can just supply updated versions of this years cars. From any perspective it would make sense i think, and im sure it will happen. Its no coincidence that ron(again, did it earlier also) just a few weeks ago spoke at a high profiled company/leader convention in copenhagen with the sole purpose of trying to get huge danish companies behind kmag

[RA2]

Getting the extra data might help though. Stupid modern F1 with it's stupid testing rules.

 

Nobody is stopping Honda from bolting their engine on to one of their lmp2 car or gt500 or sf14 and testing it in Japan till that pig start flying

Edited by RA2, 16 June 2015 - 06:53.

[Gilles4Ever]

Nobody is stopping Honda from bolting their engine on to one of their lmp2 car or gt500 or sf14 and testing it in Japan till that pig start flying

If it were that simple you don't think they would have been doing it already and so would Renault?