26 replies to this topic

[Kristian]

So tomorrow Max's memoirs are released (hence why we've been seeing a lot of him in the news lately). Has anybody pre-ordered it? 

 

http://www.amazon.co...ords=max mosley

 

I remember him saying that he wanted to spill the beans on many controversies, and that his lawyers will be on full alert on its release, so I have been anticipating it somewhat - although Joe Saward's review makes it seem like it might not be so explosive: 

 

https://joesaward.wo...-sport-i-love/?

 

 

 

A little later in the day charm landed on my doormat with a thump: Max Mosley’s autobiography arrived and in consequence I lost half a day, speed-reading it. It was an interesting read, particularly the early stuff and some of his insights into Bernie’s negotiating techniques, himself and his family. It was just what one would expect from Max, filled with amusing anecdotes, understated, clever and utterly self-serving. I would guess it was written as an historical justification of his many adventures in F1 and other worlds,. It glosses over the bits he does not want remembered and explains the others from his point of view. I guess that this is an inevitability with any autobiography. It is storytelling from one point of view. Others who were involved will one day tell their stories in a similar fashion, if they care about how the world will remember them. ThT would be good to provide balance.

This does not mean I didn’t like the book. I like the man himself – and it was less vituperative than I expected but I did feel a twinge of disappointment with the back end  as they seemed like a string of chapters justifying various happenings and then  the book ended rather abruptly. Nonetheless, I do recommend it for the insight and the whimsical moments. A useful book to add to the heaving shelves.

 

And the Guardian's review: http://www.theguardi...ws-of-the-world

 

If anybody reads it and has comments let us know! (I'm going to wait for the paperback)

Edited by Kristian, 17 June 2015 - 12:32.

[Jimisgod]

Is this the sequel to 50 Shades of Grey?

[Disgrace]

Just a reminder of the very first of our forum rules:

 

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[jonpollak]

Is this the sequel to 50 Shades of Grey?

I think the Guardian shares your impression Jimi..

http://www.theguardi...ws-of-the-world

 

Jp

[ANF]

And the Guardian's review: http://www.theguardi...ws-of-the-world

Great interview.

[johnwilliamdavies]

An interesting chap, and a far more effective head of the FIA than that Frenchman.

[johnwilliamdavies]

http://www.motorspor...d-beyond-611508

 

Another review. Schumacher didn't want to race in USA after 9/11, and he messed up the cheating Benetton episode. 

[Kristian]

An interesting chap, and a far more effective head of the FIA than that Frenchman.

 

I was doing cartwheels in the street when Max left, but now I do miss him - Bernie has his balls in the hands of CVC and the FIA are completely ineffectual at sorting out the teams; I miss the days of when it was Bernie and Max running the show now. 

[Gilles4Ever]

簡慧綾 @aussieHongKong

@MauriceHamilton just bought the max Mosley book. I see you get thanks in the preface. Hoping for an interesting read

 

Maurice Hamilton @MauriceHamilton

You won't be disappointed. espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/…

[Nonesuch]

Whatever one's opinion of Mosley, this could be an interesting tale by a man who was in the middle of the action during F1's most popular era. I'm glad he is no longer at the FIA and that his successor has not continued his meddlesome ways, but it's undeniable that Mosley's is a name that will forever be associated with motorsport and with F1 in particular.

 

The articles about it focus a bit too much on his recent exploits and battles with English newspapers for my taste, but that's probably the reason he is best known to a lot of English readers.

 

In honour of Mosley's work on budget caps I will be waiting to read this until a cheaper paperback version is published in time for the holiday season.

Edited by Nonesuch, 18 June 2015 - 12:41.

[Vitesse2]

An interesting chap, and a far more effective head of the FIA than that Frenchman.

Which one?

 

This one?

 

 

Or this one?

 

[Kristian]

 

簡慧綾 @aussieHongKong

@MauriceHamilton just bought the max Mosley book. I see you get thanks in the preface. Hoping for an interesting read

 

Maurice Hamilton @MauriceHamilton

You won't be disappointed. espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/…

 

 

From that article:

 

Eddie Jordan paying his fine for a technical breach at Indianapolis in 2001 with dollar bills so old they were no longer legal tender

 

Haha, I can't wait to find out more about that. 

[Ricciardo2014]

"$100 million fine.

Yeah, I'll show what you get up to behind closed doors ya bastard !"

Pretty sure I've already read this book.

[ensign14]

I was doing cartwheels in the street when Max left, but now I do miss him - Bernie has his balls in the hands of CVC and the FIA are completely ineffectual at sorting out the teams; I miss the days of when it was Bernie and Max running the show now. 

 

Remember it was Max who sold it to Bernie though...

 

1994 spooked Max.  I wonder how much that affected F1 was run.  Because it was going pretty well under Max until Schumacher couldn't be bothered to race fairly...

[BRG]

I would read this book, but only if I could be sure that none of my money was going to reach Mosley.

 

I wonder if it covers the period when he stood for Parliament as a National Front candidate?  Or perhaps that is something else he would like forgotten?

[SophieB]

I'm working my way through it. It's okay. The structure is odd, laid out by themes and topics rather than chronology. I thought it was as a pretty crappy and ineffectual way to lay out an art gallery when Tate Modern did it and I don't think it works much better as a way of organising a life story. You lose much in the way of any sense of progression/growth as the author chops around different subjects at different periods of his life.

There's things I learned, due to not having the encyclopaedic kmowledge of the sport's history of others. So I am very sure others already know how he was driving in the F2 race that Jim Clark died in, but I didn't and so I learned stuff. Those with a fuller existing knowledge may therefore benefit less. Safety in F1 gets its own chapter that I've yet to read but he shares in passing the harrowing story of how Roger Williamson's father came running up to him during that awful Dutch GP to ask if his son was going to be okay. And having to tell him that no, he didn't think he was.

His tales of growing up as the child of Diana Mitford and Oswald Mosley are interesting but there's a distinct sense of the author politely giving the bare minimum. There's very little in the way of human feeling, although it's difficult to say how much of that might be to the family setting itself being polite but chilly and distant, and how much of that is the author deciding it's all none of our business. So the Guardian's review which observed the book is lacking in emotion is one I agree with, for this part. Incidentally, those wondering if he comments on his father's politics, he does, after a vague fashion. Noticeably, he never really says what his father's politics were (although he reflects several times on the perceived unfairness of his parents' arrest and imprisonment without trial for their friendship with senior Nazi party figures) and says in his youth he supported his father, without saying what he supported. In his adult life, he stresses his views are slightly to the political left with an emphasis on personal freedom.

I still have to read some of his chapters as FIA president but what I'd read so far there has made me roll my eyes a bit. Especially when former expensive lawyer Mosley says over and over how irksome he finds it when teams would have their expensive lawyers present. Still, more to be read.

[Nemo1965]

Excellent post, Sophie. Though in defence of Max not taking an open and honest stand about/against/for his parents: 'Blood runs truly thicker than water.' It is not commendable, but it is human.

[SophieB]

Sure, although I wasn't really arguing for the contrary. And I certainly don't think people should be defined by their parent's actions or anything like that. Other threads had wondered in passing if he would say anything about his father's politics so I gave the gist of what he had to say. I did, by the way, see it as part of a continuing pattern of deflection and misdirection which makes me very wary of accepting his tales of things i haven't read from other points of view. So, his eloquently expressed anger at his parent's imprisonment is convincing and I have no reason to doubt that it is from the heart but it also does an effective job of directing the reader's attention away from wondering too much about why they were imprisoned in the first place

 

To take another (smaller) example, he describes (as he's done before) how he decided to attend the funeral of Roland Ratzenberger rather than the high profile funeral of Ayrton Senna, reflecting that the grief to his family is just as great and that they are just as deserving of his support. Now, I'm not saying that's untrue as such but he entirely omits to mention that Ayrton Senna's family let him know in no uncertain terms that he was not welcome at Ayrton's funeral anyway, not least by the quotes from his brother in the press. Again, whether that was in any way fair of the family or just angry grief is beside the point - he didn't opt to not attend Senna's funeral entirely for the noble reasons stated. It also allows the reader to assume that people in the sport needed to make a choice of which funeral to go to, like they were on the same day, but Gerhard Berger and Johnny Herbert attended both funerals. 

 

Now, you can take the argument that this is a small point but I found it telling. For if I'd not known he'd been effectively barred from the Senna funeral, I'd have found it a very kind and thoughtful gesture to choose instead to ensure the overlooked tragedy wasn't forgotten. As it is, it's not like I DON'T think he cared about Roland and his family but it left me wondering what else he might have said in other stories that might have changed my impressions.

[Rasputin]

Anything in the book on his youth-activities within his dad's UM-party, the post-war successor of the BUF, British Union of Fascists of the 1930's?

[Vitesse2]

I would read this book, but only if I could be sure that none of my money was going to reach Mosley.

 

I wonder if it covers the period when he stood for Parliament as a National Front candidate?  Or perhaps that is something else he would like forgotten?

I don't believe Max was ever associated with the National Front. Nor that he ever stood for Parliament. The NF wasn't formed until 1967, by which time Max was fairly heavily involved in his racing career: he has always emphsised the fact that one of the reasons he got involved with the sport was that nobody knew or cared about politics. See his comments in the Guardian interview linked above.

 

Are you perhaps confusing this with his father standing for Kensington in the 1959 General Election as a Union Movement candidate? Max was certainly involved in helping with that. And - anecdotally - he was involved in some of the activities during the Notting Hill race riots in 1958, although the only concrete evidence of that appears to be some photos of him and his brother dressed as Teds. He also acted as an election agent for the UM in Moss Side in 1961 and there was an assault charge laid against him after an affray in 1962 - he was cleared after having successfully argued that he was attempting to protect his father from attackers.

[Nemo1965]

 He also acted as an election agent for the UM in Moss Side in 1961 and there was an assault charge laid against him after an affray in 1962 - he was cleared after having successfully argued that he was attempting to protect his father from attackers.

 

 

Sure, although I wasn't really arguing for the contrary. And I certainly don't think people should be defined by their parent's actions or anything like that.

 

Oh, I did not intend to 'counter' your opinion in any way, or even suggest you held the opinion and so forth. What I meant was: that even if the accusation of the affair in 1962 had been upheld (thanx for the info Vitesse!), and even IF Mosley totally supported the fascist idea's of his father in his youth, I still would find it human behaviour. I even had a weird empathy for his... actions with the ladies... in the dressing up party-thingy that was filmed and I hope I am being vague enough not to cost Autosport lawsuits. Such a childhood - (did Hitler not attend Mosley's Senior's wedding or something?) is seriously fakked up and enough to screw up your... leisure-activities.

 

The annoying and unsettling thing is, exactly as you describe, how Mosley has dealt with such stuff in his life. I am reaching here, because I don't know Mosley enough and I haven't read the book, he is either being political (don't tell what you don't have to say) or he is being the victim. Everything bad has happened to him, everything good he has done himself.

Edited by Nemo1965, 20 June 2015 - 08:48.

[Vitesse2]

Oh, I did not intend to 'counter' your opinion in any way, or even suggest you held the opinion and so forth. What I meant was: that even if the accusation of the affair in 1962 had been upheld (thanx for the info Vitesse!), and even IF Mosley totally supported the fascist idea's of his father in his youth, I still would find it human behaviour. I even had a weird empathy for his... actions with the ladies... in the dressing up party-thingy that was filmed and I hope I am being vague enough not to cost Autosport lawsuits. Such a childhood - (did Hitler not attend Mosley's Senior's wedding or something?) is seriously fakked up and enough to screw up your... leisure-activities.

 

The annoying and unsettling thing is, exactly as you describe, how Mosley has dealt with such stuff in his life. I am reaching here, because I don't know Mosley enough and I haven't read the book, he is either being political (don't tell what you don't have to say) or he is being the victim. Everything bad has happened to him, everything good he has done himself.

Hitler did attend the wedding, which took place at Goebbels' home. However, his presence had far more to do with his friendship with Diana and - especially - her sister Unity, who was mad as a box of frogs.

[Boing 2]

http://www.motorspor...d-beyond-611508

 

Motorsport review say it's nothing particularly revealing and as Sophie has said, oddly structured.

 

I always wonder why people get excited about books by characters like Mosley or Alaistair Campbell, these are guys who's careers were built on spinning lies, why would they suddenly discover a sense of ethics and start telling the truth?

 

In the above review the writer claims that Mosley is short on facts when discussing incidents he was close to, this comment about Bennetton in 94 sounds familiar.

 

Mosley reveals however that as early as the San Marino Grand Prix that year, the FIA had seized the electronic devices from the team to check – only for more important events to emerge that weekend.

 

“Unfortunately, in all the confusion and stress following that disastrous race weekend and its aftermath, I made the mistake of authorising their return to Benetton before they had been fully checked,” said Mosley.

 

 

This was the same Mosley who was skulking around in the shadows advising Bennettons lawyers how to avoid a penalty that year about the fuel filter cheating accusations.

 

http://www.f1fanatic...4-championship/

 

Handing back a teams possibly rule breaking software, advising them how to escape punishment for cheating, all dressed up with a hand-wringing shrug and claims of 'doing my best here guv' falliability....

 

Glad to see the back of him, won't be buying the book.

 

 

[Boing 2]

To take another (smaller) example, he describes (as he's done before) how he decided to attend the funeral of Roland Ratzenberger rather than the high profile funeral of Ayrton Senna, reflecting that the grief to his family is just as great and that they are just as deserving of his support. Now, I'm not saying that's untrue as such but he entirely omits to mention that Ayrton Senna's family let him know in no uncertain terms that he was not welcome at Ayrton's funeral anyway, not least by the quotes from his brother in the press. Again, whether that was in any way fair of the family or just angry grief is beside the point - he didn't opt to not attend Senna's funeral entirely for the noble reasons stated. It also allows the reader to assume that people in the sport needed to make a choice of which funeral to go to, like they were on the same day, but Gerhard Berger and Johnny Herbert attended both funerals. 

 

Now, you can take the argument that this is a small point but I found it telling. For if I'd not known he'd been effectively barred from the Senna funeral, I'd have found it a very kind and thoughtful gesture to choose instead to ensure the overlooked tragedy wasn't forgotten. As it is, it's not like I DON'T think he cared about Roland and his family but it left me wondering what else he might have said in other stories that might have changed my impressions.

 

Mosley was a barrister first then a politician, both professions are built around the concept of making the ludicrous sound plausible, I couldn't trust his word on anything to be honest.

[Nemo1965]

Hitler did attend the wedding, which took place at Goebbels' home. However, his presence had far more to do with his friendship with Diana and - especially - her sister Unity, who was mad as a box of frogs.

 

Thanks, I am glad I remembered it correctly. I re-read Kershaw's biography of Adolf Hitler recently (I re-read it every three years or so), and was posting out of the top of my head... now that you mention the crazy sisters, I remember that as well!

[Marklar]

Nice discussion here ;)

Mosley will attend on the F1 midweek report on wednesday together with Kevin Eason (the times). Could be interesting...

[New Britain]

Mosley was a barrister first then a politician, both professions are built around the concept of making the ludicrous sound plausible, I couldn't trust his word on anything to be honest.

 

 

Quite.

 

Pain me though it did to spend money some of which would end up in Mosley's pocket - when a better use for Mosley's share of the money would have been, say, burning it - I bought the book under the principle that one should endeavour to understand one's enemies.

 

Not quite finished with it, but what is clear is that Mosley is a very clever guy. In decent people, cleverness is a virtue. In indecent people....

 

A barrister's mentality permeates the book - a black-and-white justification for everything the author claims to have done, with no acknowledgement whatsoever that the opposing position had a leg to stand on.

 

In light of his keen political antennae, however, I was surprised to see how Mosley could not resist recalling in great detail how he and Bernie conspired to get control of F1 and the FIA.

 

Mosley freely admits that, amongst other things, during their campaign the pair schemed, lied, intercepted private communications and even stole documents.

 

Rather ironic, considering how self-righteously Mosley has pontificated upon his own right to protection of personal information.