105 replies to this topic

[johnwilliamdavies]

In the FT - http://www.ft.com/cm...?siteedition=uk

[BoschKurve]

I don't subscribe to the site.

 

It'd be helpful if you posted the article in quotes.

Edited by BoschKurve, 23 June 2015 - 19:05.

[BoschKurve]

Nevermind, here is James Allen.

 

http://www.jamesalle...-take-over-bid/

[BoschKurve]

Either way, F1 is done for as a sport.

 

The handing of those commercial rights to Bernie was the worst thing to ever happen as a sport. Those rights are going to be passed around like a hooker at a frat party for the long-term future till they no longer give any ROI.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I can see the Qataris being in it for longer term value, they want an asset not a sale. In theory.

[JHSingo]

Those rights are going to be passed around like a hooker at a frat party for the long-term future till they no longer give any ROI.

 

Spot on. The problem with F1 (and indeed, most sports, actually) is that it is just a cash cow for rich, old people who couldn't give a crap about the overall health of the sport, or the fans.

Edited by JHSingo, 23 June 2015 - 19:13.

[redraven9]

Can someone translate this to the layman?

[Tapz63]

Cvc may sell f1 commercial rights to some Qataris and an American. Bernie will sell his 5% too apparently.

[BoschKurve]

I can see the Qataris being in it for longer term value, they want an asset not a sale. In theory.

 

Sure, I suspect they'd rather have it for the long-term.

 

However the last thing F1 needs is to be owned by a country that engages in slavery and the killing of thousands of migrant workers for their World Cup Stadiums.

 

Though I suppose it is fitting F1 moves from one kind of corruption to another kind.

[redraven9]

Cvc may sell f1 commercial rights to some Qataris and an American. Bernie will sell his 5% too apparently.

And why is that bad exactly?

[jonpollak]

Either way, F1 is done for as a sport.

 

 Those rights are going to be passed around like a hooker at a frat party for the long-term future till they no longer give any ROI.

Phrat boys can't afford hookers...

Sheesh..

Jp

[Fastcake]

I can see the Qataris being in it for longer term value, they want an asset not a sale. In theory.

 

True, but for a sport that's just come out of a bribery scandal, selling out to the Qataris isn't a clever move.

Edited by Fastcake, 23 June 2015 - 19:24.

[BoschKurve]

Phrat boys can't afford hookers...

Sheesh..

Jp

 

You obviously haven't been to the wealthier college campuses...

[BoschKurve]

True, but for a sport that's just come out of a bribery scandal, selling out to the Qataris is the wrong move.

 

No, actually it's the perfect move when you think about it.

 

F1 was built into the commercial juggernaut it is today --or at least until recently when the fans started tuning out en masse-- because of corruption.

 

Why not just continue the trend of transferring commercial rights ownership from one corrupt owner to the next? At least it ensures continuity of a sort.

[Jamiednm]

Not all Middle Eastern business men are mercenaries. It wouldn't surprise me if this lot are, but sometimes it can be great - look at Man City, owned by Abu Dhabians, who actually invest in the club and its surroundings.

[Fastcake]

By the way, for those who can't read the article, the quote at the end is brilliant:

 

At the end of last year, Donald Mackenzie, CVC’s co-founder, called F1’s most important team bosses and stakeholders to a shooting party at his estate to discuss the future of the sport.

He told them that Mr Ecclestone, who was not present, had been “left alone for too long” and that he wished to bring in Paul Walsh, the former chief executive of Diageo, alongside him.

But at the board meeting that followed, Mr Walsh was only left with a non-executive role. “Bernie had dinner with him and told him to piss off,” said one F1 board member.

 

[jonpollak]

You obviously haven't been to the wealthier college campuses...

Well BK you probably have a point.

Daddy's money never was in evidence at Wottsamotta U

 

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 23 June 2015 - 19:32.

[johnwilliamdavies]

Adam Cooper says Qatar has a 17% stake in VW...

[JHSingo]

Adam Cooper says Qatar has a 17% stake in VW...

 

That's cool...

 

But they're still not entering F1.

[sterlingfan2000]

QSI is also owner of Paris Saint German.

[Atreiu]

Let's be rational.

 

What is the worse case scenario from an eventual take over and how far is it form the current situation?

[mclarensmps]

Sure, I suspect they'd rather have it for the long-term.

 

However the last thing F1 needs is to be owned by a country that engages in slavery and the killing of thousands of migrant workers for their World Cup Stadiums.

 

Though I suppose it is fitting F1 moves from one kind of corruption to another kind.

 

Fans of Barcelona, PSG, and those attending the Qatar world cup don't seem to have any issues with this. Not saying that you're wrong, though. It's just that people don't really seem to care. 

 

There will be fake public outcry, twitter hashtags, facebook likes and dislikes, and then people will fork over their money and consume the product anyway. 

 

The rich Middle Eastern countries all have similar practises when it comes to disregard for basic human rights, but not many people care about it. The UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia still thrive, speaking in terms of investments.

[sterlingfan2000]

Qatar would also ditch the strategy group and the V6 Turbo hybrids. I would welcome Qatat

[TomNokoe]

USA! USA! USA!

[superden]

USA! USA! USA!

Say no more.

[Fastcake]

Qatar would also ditch the strategy group and the V6 Turbo hybrids. I would welcome Qatat

 

It's not in the power of a minority shareholder in FOM to do either of these things.

[KingTiger]

I'd be happy if they drop Bernard and bring in Brawn or even myself to be in charge of a F1 commission.

[Afterburner]

Well BK you probably have a point.

Daddy's money never was in evidence at Wottsamotta U

 

Jp

Whoa... nostalgia overload!

[DILLIGAF]

Sounds like Bernie could be getting out while the goings still good.

[TimRTC]

So an F1 race at Losail?

 

Seriously, I think it could be a good thing - at the very least surely no worse than it currently is where Bernie holds a self-appointed Imperial Throne and seems determined to drive the sport into the ground.

 

Hopefully if the Qatari group do not want to have direct involvement in the micro-management, they will appoint a panel to make decisions on the sport's future.

[Buttoneer]

Reminder to everyone; please do not post entire articles.  Quote a small part, and then link to it, so that you respect the authors copyright.

[SophieB]

Say no more.

USA no more?

[RockBrocaine]

Makes no mention that Bernie will be going away. For all we know a part of the deal could be to keep in in charge as he is now. He hasn't proven detrimental to CVC pockets.

[275 GTB-4]

Let's be rational.
 
What is the worse case scenario from an eventual take over and how far is it form the current situation?

Millions of adoring fans may never, ever get to see Bernie again?

[Kristian]

It says they will purchase 35% stake; that's a long way from owning F1 in my books? 

 

Bernie did hint the other day that something big was coming... 

[HP]

Autosport makes a mention too

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/119656

 

Millions of adoring fans may never, ever get to see Bernie again?

Brilliant

Edited by HP, 23 June 2015 - 22:50.

[Norm]

 

 

Bernie did hint the other day that something big was coming... 

 

I missed this. Would you please share what was said?

Edited by Norm, 23 June 2015 - 22:58.

[OvDrone]

Miami Dolphins? Pfffffff, I can't quite stand any franchise in any series that is from the Sunshine State. You hear me Tampa Bay Lightning?!

 

And Qatar? Great.

[Fastcake]

It says they will purchase 35% stake; that's a long way from owning F1 in my books? 

 

Bernie did hint the other day that something big was coming... 

 

It can be rather more complicated than that. You don't have to own the majority of shares to have effective control over the company, it all depends on the various legalities and agreements that are in place between the shareholders. It would be no different to how CVC are currently controlling FOM, despite only owning the 35.5% share Stephen Ross and Qatar want to buy. Besides, if you consider Bernie selling his shares in the same deal, the stake held by the residual of Lehman Brothers who would have to accept an offer, and any other shareholders who may sell with CVC, these potential owners could own most of the company anyway.

[Imateria]

It says they will purchase 35% stake; that's a long way from owning F1 in my books? 

 

Bernie did hint the other day that something big was coming... 

Depends, CVC owns 35% of the sport at present but is the largest shareholder and if I remember right the deals they have with the other shareholders means they keep control of the board of Delta Topco (FOM's owner).

 

I don't really see this as a change that will matter much depending on what the US-Qatari group wants to do with F1, and even then they may not be able to do much with F1 as CVC has found for themselves. The real damage was done long ago when Max gifted his mate Bernie the commercial rights to F1 for 113 years at ~1% of their then value, and Jean Todt confirmed years ago that that is a water tight contract the FIA can't renegotiate.

[goingthedistance]

So after bleeding the sport dry for years CVC is planning to cash in and run. The sport is on the brink of disaster and Bernie has essentially lost the plot, so the timing is sensible from their perspective.

But Qataris, really? You couldn't make this stuff up. I really wish that break away series had happened a few years back.

[275 GTB-4]

So an F1 race at Losail?
 
Seriously, I think it could be a good thing - at the very least surely no worse than it currently is where Bernie holds a self-appointed Imperial Throne and seems determined to drive the sport into the ground.
 
Hopefully if the Qatari group do not want to have direct involvement in the micro-management, they will appoint a panel to make decisions on the sport's future.

The Qatari group will not want to have direct involvement in the micro-management...that's for their money to buy in expertise. Social aspects and podium glamor etc a different matter.

I believe Pirelli are already working on a sand tyre for Losail...and, (TIC) special F1 Monster Truck tyres for the US

[loki]

Depends, CVC owns 35% of the sport at present but is the largest shareholder and if I remember right the deals they have with the other shareholders means they keep control of the board of Delta Topco (FOM's owner).

 

 

Yep, it's having control of the board that matters.

[loki]

So after bleeding the sport dry for years CVC is planning to cash in and run. The sport is on the brink of disaster and Bernie has essentially lost the plot, so the timing is sensible from their perspective.

But Qataris, really? You couldn't make this stuff up. I really wish that break away series had happened a few years back.

CVC has already cashed in.  According to a the Allen piece they've made 4-5 times the original investment.  

 

CVC bought the sport from a consortium of banks in 2005 using $1 billion and $2.5 billion of debt financing. They have so far earned around four to five times their money back and this final deal will make it one of their most successful investments ever. Nevertheless CVC’s managing partner Donald Mackenzie said it had been “an alarming company to own.”

 

What we are seeing now is the exit strategy.   They may think it's a good time to go while the price is still relatively high. With declining viewers and sponsors, threats that established races are in danger of being renewed may have them thinking it's a good time to go.  They've always been about extracting the maximum return from the investment with almost no investment back into the sport.

[aguri]

The last thing formula 1 needs is to be further used as a dodgy political vanity project for some tin pot backward authoritarian slave drivers.

[loki]

The last thing formula 1 needs is to be further used as a dodgy political vanity project for some tin pot backward authoritarian slave drivers.

Yes because under Ecclestone it's not that now...

[black magic]

at that price the future of the sport is likely to be doomed.

 

unless the sport lucks in with benign owners, that valuation will lock in the exorbitant dividends that are currently being extracted. there will be no hope of a fairer distribution of income, there will be no hope of gp reappearing in famous venues now lost, cheap ticket prices - can forget the lot.

[Jimisgod]

Yes because under Ecclestone it's not that now...

 

I don't know that he's enslaved people. Yet.

[AustinF1]

Adam Cooper says Qatar has a 17% stake in VW...

Yes, and isn't there a strong Qatari tie to McLaren as well?

[mclarensmps]

Yes, and isn't there a strong Qatari tie to McLaren as well?

 

That's Bahrain