124 replies to this topic

[Jimisgod]

I was just looking through the starting lists of years gone past while discussing the potential for a new Ferrari driver. One thing I noticed was just how full of stars and "potential stars" the current grid is.

 

• Alonso, Button, Hamilton, Vettel and Raikkonen are WDCs.
• Rosberg and Massa have run WDC campaigns and won 10 or more races each.
• Ricciardo and Maldonado have race wins.
• Hulkenberg has a pole.
• Perez, Bottas and Grosjean each have several podiums.

That's 13/20 who have notable achievements in F1. Now the young drivers:

• Verstappen is a rookie sensation and Sainz is running him close.
• Nasr has also impressed.
• Magnussen has a podium and can't even get a drive.
• Vandoorne, the best GP2 driver in years, is knocking on the door to join.

Every single one of the above could arguably launch a championship campaign in a good car.

 

[Dan333SP]

Maybe. Each year the total amount of time and money invested in each driver's careers has increased (funding for junior formula campaigns, physical training, simulator time, ect.), but who is to say the innate talent level of this grid is any higher than some arbitrary grid from the past, like the 1968 South African GP? Clark, Surtees, Hill, Rindt, Stewart, Brabham, Amon... Hard to argue with that. The gap between the least talented guys and most talented has narrowed dramatically since that time, though, and that's mostly because of $$$.

[George Costanza]

It would be hard to top 1991... 

 

Ayrton, Nelson, Nigel, Alain, Michael, Mika.

 

All of whom won a combined 20 World Championships....

 

Thie grid of today? 10 combined world championships.  I would argue only Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamitlon are truly surpreme drivers of the grids today.

Edited by George Costanza, 24 June 2015 - 02:16.

[J2NH]

There is good quality on the grid.  What is missing is parity of the teams.  We need cars that are more dependent on a drivers skill set to let the quality of the grid shine thru.  

[loki]

Nope...

[CurbPainter]

I would say the quality is high today, at least higher as the 90s.

 

If it's higher as the 60s, 70s or 80s I would not dare to say, but it's at least on par as some other periods. It might also go down considerably when some of old the guys call it quits, maybe some rookies and upcoming talents are too highly rated now.

 

But with Go-Karting and the good populated junior classes which are existing today, it probably has contributed to a high level which will probably remain still after that, but it can come and go in cycles.

[Radoye]

1967:

 

7 world champions past and future - Brabham (3x), Stewart (3x), Clark (2x), Hill (2x), Surtees, Rindt, Hulme.

10 more race winners - Icxs, Mclaren, Gurney, Rodriguez, Siffert, Bonnier, Scarfiotti, Bandini , Baghetti, Ginther

9 more with podiums and / or pole positions - Amon, Anderson, Oliver, Parkes, Spence, Love, Atwood, Servoz-Gavin, Redman...

[George Costanza]

Speaking of cars, if you have a car such as 1992 Williams, 1998 McLaren or 2002 Ferrari or the 2010 Red Bull, or the 2014 Mercedes, I am sure any F1 driver can win. 

 

Its seasons such as Fernando Alonso's 2012, or Lewis's 2008 season or Ayrton's 1991 or Michael's 1997 seaosn that show the differnce in skill.

Edited by George Costanza, 24 June 2015 - 02:32.

[jjcale]

Been saying this since about 2010 .... and its improved since then.

[V8 Fireworks]

No, no, no...

 

The highest quality grids were in 2002-2005 when there were SEVEN works teams.  SEVEN! 

[HeadFirst]

It would be hard to top 1991... 

 

Ayrton, Nelson, Nigel, Alain, Michael, Mika.

 

All of whom won a combined 20 World Championships....

 

Thie grid of today? 10 combined world championships.  I would argue only Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamitlon are truly surpreme drivers of the grids today.

 

But in 1991 the total was only 9 WDC's. Who knows how many this crew will have when Lewis and Seb have retired.

[Otaku]

Nope. Not even close.

[Gyan]

Its certainly the best grid since I've started watching F1 back since 98/99. You had a lot of drivel in the 90s and 00s as well, although the quality rose slightly in the 00s. But new young drivers since 2010 have been quite strong really. Hulkenberg, Maldonado, Perez, Vergne, Ricciardo, Grosjean, Bottas, Kvyat, Magnussen, Verstappen, Sainz and Nasr are all top quality drivers, capable of race wins in championship challenging cars at the minimum. That including the usual suspects of Alonso, Button, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Vettel and Rosberg and you have a grid which leaves space for only a couple of drivers to be woeful, whereas you had more lost causes every season in the 90s and the 00s. We'd have had Kubica as well knocking around if he hadn't had his accident. He'd have been the icing on the cake.

 

Whether its a better grid than any other time period in F1, I do not know. If I had to take a bet, a grid of the 60s would be as top quality as the current one. Maybe even the 80s.

[George Costanza]

But in 1991 the total was only 9 WDC's. Who knows how many this crew will have when Lewis and Seb have retired.

 

Well, it won't be 20, I know that. Unless Seb and Lewis can win that many, which I doubt.

 

But let's wait and see in the next 5-10 years.

Edited by George Costanza, 24 June 2015 - 04:32.

[HeadFirst]

Well, it won't be 20, I know that. Unless Seb and Lewis can win that many, which I doubt.

 

But let's wait and see in the next 5-10 years.

 

Yes let's, it will be fun. But for now, 2015 beats 1991 for WDC's already in the bank.

[lbennie]

Drivers are much more professional & committed than ever.

Sports science & technology has been improving by leaps & bounds.

 

Most drivers can access close to 100% of their potential now in this environment.

 

So yes, the drivers of today are much better than the drivers of yesteryear.

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from the achievements of your sennas/clarks/prosts but that is just the way the world works.

Look at other sports & how world records constantly tumble as times go by.  

[Rasputin]

[velgajski1]

Probably yes and this is partly the reason why races are kinda boring nowdays.

[Marklar]

For me except of the timespan between 1995-2004 the F1 grids had always hight qualitys.

[aramos]

Yep. The drivers have such a complete and competitive junior career now only the best really do make it.

[Otaku]

Drivers are much more professional & committed than ever.

Sports science & technology has been improving by leaps & bounds.

 

Most drivers can access close to 100% of their potential now in this environment.

 

So yes, the drivers of today are much better than the drivers of yesteryear.

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from the achievements of your sennas/clarks/prosts but that is just the way the world works.

Look at other sports & how world records constantly tumble as times go by.  

 

Not even close. It's not a problem of drivers being good or not, the problem lies with what they have to drive. Driving to a delta, saving fuel, saving tyres, etc are not the best way to show "100% of their potential". That's the main problem of this generation, we don't know how good they really are. I'd LOVE to see them driving F1s of the 70s and 80s just to see how they really cope with a manual gearbox, no downforce, tons of power, etc etc but it just won't happen. 

Add to all of that, that these drivers can't fukin drive in the wet.

[Tourgott]

[lbennie]

Not even close. It's not a problem of drivers being good or not, the problem lies with what they have to drive. Driving to a delta, saving fuel, saving tyres, etc are not the best way to show "100% of their potential". That's the main problem of this generation, we don't know how good they really are. I'd LOVE to see them driving F1s of the 70s and 80s just to see how they really cope with a manual gearbox, no downforce, tons of power, etc etc but it just won't happen. 

Add to all of that, that these drivers can't fukin drive in the wet.

 

They would cope fine. They are much stronger, fitter & smarter now.

 

How do you know they can't drive in the wet? they won't let them show us?

[krea]

What says the amount of drivers with WDC titles about the quality of the field?

 

It's skewed anyway because F1 carreers are longer than ever compared to the earlier days. 

[Fisico54]

I'd say yes. Top end is as good or nearly as good as at any other era but bottom end is at a far higher standard than ever before. Isn't a single driver without the talent to be in F1 on the grid which is a huge difference to any other era

[CoolBreeze]

Hell no. They are not even allowed to race in the rain...

[FredrikB]

One thing that strikes me is how clean the racing has been for the last year or so (with a few exceptions) with very few starts producing heavy crashes for example.

If that's because the cars are easier to drive or the quality of the field, i don't know.

[KingTiger]

It's certainly much higher than the mid 00s. The quality of drivers was appalling. 

[Jackmancer]

It would be hard to top 1991... 

 

Ayrton, Nelson, Nigel, Alain, Michael, Mika.

 

All of whom won a combined 20 World Championships....

 

Thie grid of today? 10 combined world championships.  I would argue only Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamitlon are truly surpreme drivers of the grids today.

 

Bit unfair comparison, todays grid isn't finished yet, I can definitely see it getting 10 more championships with Hamilton, Vettel, maybe Kvyat, Bottas Sainz and Verstappen.

[travbrad]

I'd say yes. Top end is as good or nearly as good as at any other era but bottom end is at a far higher standard than ever before. Isn't a single driver without the talent to be in F1 on the grid which is a huge difference to any other era

 

Agreed.  The biggest difference in quality has come from the bottom end drivers.  Even most of the so-called "bad" drivers in F1 nowadays have accomplished a lot in junior formulas.  Of course money still comes in to play but it has pretty much always been that way, and at least most of the paying drivers now actually have some talent.  Even at the "top end" I would say it's better than most of the 90s and 00s, at the very least.  A lot of the top drivers during that period retired shortly after winning their championships (Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen).  Schumacher was really the only one who stuck around for a long time.

 

I think it's very hard to compare different eras of F1 though.  The cars, circuits, physical/mental demands, and dangers of F1 were so different in the past.  Driving around Nordschleife in the 70s is a bit different than driving around a Tilkedrome in 2015.

Edited by travbrad, 24 June 2015 - 07:44.

[Grayson]

It would be hard to top 1991... 

 

Ayrton, Nelson, Nigel, Alain, Michael, Mika.

 

All of whom won a combined 20 World Championships....

 

Thie grid of today? 10 combined world championships.  I would argue only Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamitlon are truly surpreme drivers of the grids today.

 

The number of championships (past and future) that a grid has won is a bit of a red herring. It points more to the longevity of the drivers in general and the Champions in particular than it does to their quality. If F1 was made up of the worst drivers around, one of them would still have to win the WDC. And if each of them were given a career span of 12 years, then the crossover between them would mean that there would often be 20 to 24 championships (past and future) represented on the grid just through random chance. This isn't impressive, this is just statistics.

 

I'm more interested in who they won their Championships against. Prost and Senna's championships mean a lot more because they had to beat each other to the title. Many people would place Fernando Alonso in their top five F1 drivers of all time - that must make the drivers who won the Championship every year since 2006 pretty special! Anyone who can get WDCs, wins or even just regular podiums when Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are driving competitive machinery could have dominated a slightly weaker era of F1.

[Nonesuch]

For me except of the timespan between 1995-2004 the F1 grids had always hight qualitys.

 

It is indeed quite hard to look good against Schumacher, and losing Senna and Prost from the grid surely changed things from 1995 onwards. But what was it about 2005 that made the grid so much better? Three people had their début in Australia 2005: Christian Albers (0 wins, 0 poles, 0 podiums), Patrick Friesacher (0 wins, 0 poles, 0 podiums), and Narain Karthikeyan (0 wins, 0 poles, 0 podiums). I'm sure these are all competent guys, but I don't see how they raised the level of the grid significantly over 2004 or 2003.

 

Top end is as good or nearly as good as at any other era but bottom end is at a far higher standard than ever before.

 

Agreed, I think the biggest improvement has taken place at the rear of the grid.

[superden]

Nope. Not even close.

What he said.

[V8 Fireworks]

Hulkenberg, Maldonado, Perez, Vergne, Ricciardo, Grosjean, Bottas, Kvyat, Magnussen, Verstappen, Sainz and Nasr are all top quality drivers, capable of race wins in championship challenging cars at the minimum.

 

How are they any different to Heidfeld, Webber, Montoyta, Ralf Schumacher, Fisichella, Wurz, da Matta, Panis, Irvine, Herbert, Barrichello, Sato, Albers etc of the 00s?       

[043Max]

F1 Grid or F1 Grid Girls of 2015? .... we should compare them more closely!

[Jimisgod]

How are they any different to Heidfeld, Webber, Montoyta, Ralf Schumacher, Fisichella, Wurz, da Matta, Panis, Irvine, Herbert, Barrichello, Sato, Albers etc of the 00s?       

 

Heidfeld couldn't do what Kubica could at BMW - win.

 

Webber was comprehensively beaten by Vettel, who then went on to lose to a current driver - Ricciardo.

 

Montoya was easily beaten by Kimi, who then struggled to beat Massa and Alonso and Vettel.

 

Ralfie was in the shadow of Montoya, who lost to Kimi.

 

Fisichella wasn't even on the same planet as Alonso.

 

Wurz quite clearly lost to Rosberg. His career meant he was rarely on the grid anyway.

 

Panis is an interesting one, but he never had speed after his 1997 crash.

 

Irvine, Herbert were decimated by Schumacher and were no longer up and comers by the time they were back in midfield teams.

 

da Matta, Sato, Albers all never amounted to anything. Particularly Sato, who had a decent car and was brained by Button.

 

Conclusions...

 

With hindsight the only ones worth rating were Webber, Barrichello and Montoya. Maybe Trulli, because he never had a top drive to prove he wasn't all that.

Edited by Jimisgod, 24 June 2015 - 10:10.

[Nonesuch]

How are they any different to Heidfeld, Webber, Montoyta, Ralf Schumacher, Fisichella, Wurz, da Matta, Panis, Irvine, Herbert, Barrichello, Sato, Albers etc of the 00s? 

 

Agreed; the history of F1 is rife with people who 'could' win and 'had the talent' to be the world champion. Yet reality has a way of brushing those speculations aside.

 

Besides, being "capable of race wins in championship challenging cars" isn't exactly high praise. That was also true for Rubens Barrichello, Mark Webber, Juan-Pablo Montoya, Giancarlo Fisichella and the like. Solid drivers, but hardly the Lauda or Schumacher of our time. The last drivers who failed to win a race in a championship challenging car (and for generosity's sake we might pick the WDC here rather than the WCC) are probably Massa in 2012 and 2010*, Kovalainen in 2008, and Barrichello in 2001.

[TurnOffTheLights]

Heidfeld couldn't do what Kubica could at BMW - win.

 

Webber was comprehensively beaten by Vettel, who then went on to lose to a current driver - Ricciardo.

 

Montoya was easily beaten by Kimi, who then struggled to beat Massa and Alonso and Vettel.

 

Ralfie was in the shadow of Montoya, who lost to Kimi.

 

Fisichella wasn't even on the same planet as Alonso.

 

Wurz quite clearly lost to Rosberg. His career meant he was rarely on the grid anyway.

 

Panis is an interesting one, but he never had speed after his 1997 crash.

 

Irvine, Herbert were decimated by Schumacher and were no longer up and comers by the time they were back in midfield teams.

 

da Matta, Sato, Albers all never amounted to anything. Particularly Sato, who had a decent car and was brained by Button.

 

Conclusions...

 

With hindsight the only ones worth rating were Webber, Barrichello and Montoya. Maybe Trulli, because he never had a top drive to prove he wasn't all that.

 

"With hindsight" (maybe in 10 years time from now on) you'll surely be able to create such a list about today's drivers and their respective losses against teammates, too. You even could start today - with most of their career ends (and lots of losses against each) still in the future:

Hulkenberg lost out to Barrichello, who couldn't win one single WDC although driving a WCC car for 6 years
The same goes for Bottas

Maldonado.... well, he's beaten Senna (thanks to 25 points in Barcelona 2012) and lost to everybody else

Perez was beaten by Button AND Hülkenberg so far (who were beaten themselves by Hamilton/Barrichello)

Vergne couldn't even make it more than 3 years in F1, and lost out to Ricciardo
Kvyat already lost out to that very Vergne and with high probability won't be matching Ricciardo, too. So that'll be 2 losses in 2 seasons for him

Ricciardo himself might be a special one, but he's started to struggle a bit this season, so we have to wait and see

Grosjean was demolished by Alonso when he replaced Piquet Jr. in 2009 and was comprehensively beaten by Räikkönen - who himself lost out to Alonso, Vettel and even Massa
Verstappen and Sainz are in their first year - and one of them will have his first loss on his scorecard at the end of the season

 

It's in the nature of things: if you compare drivers by looking at their wins/losses against teammates, the more years they've been in F1, the more likely it is you'll find something to deny their talent (especially, if even one or 2 defeats are enough to be discarded completely). Might still be the current drivers are more talented then the guys 10-15 years ago, but I don't think it makes any sense to judge the quality of the grid the way you did.

Imagine, if we had a grid of tier1 drivers only - there would still be lots of them looking mediocre with more losses than wins against their teammates. And almost nobody would have a clean sheet after 10-20 years of competing against the best.

Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 24 June 2015 - 11:08.

[zanquis]

 

Perez was beaten by Button AND Hülkenberg so far (who were beaten themselves by Hamilton/Barrichello)

 

 

Depends how you see it. In my ranking in their time together Button has beaten Hamilton. But they where evenly matched in that time frame.Hamilton edged Button twice but in between Button trashed Hamilton while producing one of the most inspirational drives of the last few years.

[PaulTodd]

I don't think it's the best ever as I don't feel current Formula 1 cars push the drivers all that much.

 

That's one thing that gets me, we do have some amazing talent but it's just wasted these days

[TurnOffTheLights]

Depends how you see it. In my ranking in their time together Button has beaten Hamilton. But they where evenly matched in that time frame.Hamilton edged Button twice but in between Button trashed Hamilton while producing one of the most inspirational drives of the last few years.

 

Well, it was not my intention to start another discussion of who got the upper hand of whom at McLaren in 2010-2012 

But taking Jimisgod's standards (and my list should be seen as a response to that only, without taking it too seriously), Button lost to Hamilton as well as Heidfeld to Kubica.

Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 24 June 2015 - 11:48.

[Szoelloe]

Grid quality? Yes, it may be the best, but much ado about nothing, because F1 is at it's lowest. 

[Beyond]

it's clearly one of the best grids ever. the best? impossible to say

[Spillage]

I agree with posters discussing 1991. Here's the starting grid for Monza that year, together with what each driver would go on to achieve:

 

1. Ayrton Senna (3 F1 world titles, 41 wins, 80 podiums, 65 poles)

2. Nigel Mansell (1 F1 world title, 31 wins, 59 podiums 32 poles. 1 CART title, 5 wins.)

3. Gerhard Berger (10 F1 wins, 48 podiums, 12 poles.)

4. Riccardo Patrese (6 F1 wins, 37 podiums, 8 poles.)

5. Alain Prost (4 F1 world titles, 51 wins, 106 podiums, 33 poles.)

6. Jean Alesi (1 F1 win, 32 podiums, 2 poles.)

7. Michael Schumacher (7 F1 world titles, 91 wins, 155 podiums, 68 poles.)

8. Nelson Piquet (3 F1 world titles, 23 wins, 60 podiums, 24 poles.)

9. Roberto Moreno (1 F1 podium. 2 CART wins)

10. Pierluigi Martini (Le Mans 24hr winner)

11. Mark Blundell (3 F1 podiums. 3 CART wins. Le Mans 24hr winner)

12. Ivan Capelli (3 F1 podiums.)

13. Stefano Modena (2 F1 podiums.)

14. Andrea de Cesaris (5 F1 podiums, 1 pole.)

15. Satoru Nakajima

16. Emanuele Pirro (2 ALMS titles, 5 Le Mans 24hrs wins.)

17. Gianni Morbidelli (1 F1 podium.)

18. Mauricio Gugelmin (1 F1 podium, 1 CART win.)

19. Martin Brundle (9 F1 podiums, 1 World Sportscar Championship, Le Mans 24hr winner.)

20. JJ Lehto (1 F1 podium, Le Mans 24hr winner.)

21. Thierry Boutsen (3 F1 wins, 15 podiums, 1 pole.)

22. Erik Comas

23. Nicola Larini (1 F1 podium)

24. Erik Bernard (1 F1 podium)

25. Mika Hakkinen (2 F1 world titles, 20 wins, 51 podiums, 26 poles)

26. Olivier Grouillard

 

Six-time race winner Michele Alboreto and podium-finisher Aguri Suzuki didn't even qualify. But anyway, three drivers on the grid who didn't achieve significant success in a senior international racing series is pretty impressive. I don't think any of the grids of the previous years will be able to boast that.

 

The other thing I think we're missing is a driver of the Senna level. Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel et al are all outstanding talents, but I think that any one of Fangio, Clark, Senna and Schumacher would be the best driver on this grid if they had been of this era.

[PaulTodd]

I agree with posters discussing 1991. Here's the starting grid for Monza that year, together with what each driver would go on to achieve:

 

1. Ayrton Senna (3 F1 world titles, 41 wins, 80 podiums, 65 poles)

2. Nigel Mansell (1 F1 world title, 31 wins, 59 podiums 32 poles. 1 CART title, 5 wins.)

3. Gerhard Berger (10 F1 wins, 48 podiums, 12 poles.)

4. Riccardo Patrese (6 F1 wins, 37 podiums, 8 poles.)

5. Alain Prost (4 F1 world titles, 51 wins, 106 podiums, 33 poles.)

6. Jean Alesi (1 F1 win, 32 podiums, 2 poles.)

7. Michael Schumacher (7 F1 world titles, 91 wins, 155 podiums, 68 poles.)

8. Nelson Piquet (3 F1 world titles, 23 wins, 60 podiums, 24 poles.)

9. Roberto Moreno (1 F1 podium. 2 CART wins)

10. Pierluigi Martini (Le Mans 24hr winner)

11. Mark Blundell (3 F1 podiums. 3 CART wins. Le Mans 24hr winner)

12. Ivan Capelli (3 F1 podiums.)

13. Stefano Modena (2 F1 podiums.)

14. Andrea de Cesaris (5 F1 podiums, 1 pole.)

15. Satoru Nakajima

16. Emanuele Pirro (2 ALMS titles, 5 Le Mans 24hrs wins.)

17. Gianni Morbidelli (1 F1 podium.)

18. Mauricio Gugelmin (1 F1 podium, 1 CART win.)

19. Martin Brundle (9 F1 podiums, 1 World Sportscar Championship, Le Mans 24hr winner.)

20. JJ Lehto (1 F1 podium, Le Mans 24hr winner.)

21. Thierry Boutsen (3 F1 wins, 15 podiums, 1 pole.)

22. Erik Comas

23. Nicola Larini (1 F1 podium)

24. Erik Bernard (1 F1 podium)

25. Mika Hakkinen (2 F1 world titles, 20 wins, 51 podiums, 26 poles)

26. Olivier Grouillard

 

Six-time race winner Michele Alboreto and podium-finisher Aguri Suzuki didn't even qualify. But anyway, three drivers on the grid who didn't achieve significant success in a senior international racing series is pretty impressive. I don't think any of the grids of the previous years will be able to boast that.

 

The other thing I think we're missing is a driver of the Senna level. Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel et al are all outstanding talents, but I think that any one of Fangio, Clark, Senna and Schumacher would be the best driver on this grid if they had been of this era.

 

As impressive as that is you would have to look at 1991 as if it still is 1991. You can't account for all of Schumachers success because he only just started. At the moment we have Vettel on 4 and Hamilton 2 going to be 3. I wonder how many titles they will get in years to come not to mention all the young drivers yet to win

[Spillage]

As impressive as that is you would have to look at 1991 as if it still is 1991. You can't account for all of Schumachers success because he only just started. At the moment we have Vettel on 4 and Hamilton 2 going to be 3. I wonder how many titles they will get in years to come not to mention all the young drivers yet to win

I totally accept this, but I do seriously doubt that the drivers of this generation will match the achievements of that lot. Even with only 20 drivers on the grid there seems to be more deadwood in the present field.

[johnmhinds]

I totally accept this, but I do seriously doubt that the drivers of this generation will match the achievements of that lot. Even with only 20 drivers on the grid there seems to be more deadwood in the present field.

 

 

Are you counting them as being deadwood because the newer drivers haven't had podiums like they did in 91?

 

That's because cars are more reliable and we get less freak finishes these days, not because the drivers are bad.

[HeadFirst]

I totally accept this, but I do seriously doubt that the drivers of this generation will match the achievements of that lot. Even with only 20 drivers on the grid there seems to be more deadwood in the present field.

 

Sure they could. Your list covers a span of 26 years (32 if you count Schumie's return). Now project forward that amount of time from Jenson's debut in 2000 and you can see it is possible.

[Fisico54]

I totally accept this, but I do seriously doubt that the drivers of this generation will match the achievements of that lot. Even with only 20 drivers on the grid there seems to be more deadwood in the present field.

What deadwood?
Drivers without F1 podiums-
Hulkenberg - Le Mans Winner, GP2 Champion, F3 Euro Champion

Sainz - FR3.5 champion

Verstappen - 10 wins in euro f3 as a 16 year old

Nasr- British F3 champion, GP2 3rd place

Merhi - Euro F3 champion

Stevens - FR3.5. Race winner

Ericsson - Japanese F3 champion

Kvyat - GP3 Champion

[BoschKurve]

People are forgetting the 1984 season grid. 1991 was tops, but 1984 was very solid.

 

Some names: Senna, Prost, Lauda, de Angelis, Mansell, Rosberg, Winkelhock, Johansson, Alboreto, de Cesaris (He was a very good driver contrary to popular opinion) Lafitte, Bellof, Brundle, Berger, Piquet, Warwick, Cecotto (rode 500cc GP motorcycles before F1 last guy to do it) Arnoux, and Patrese.