86 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

Todt has told F1 teams that they should formally hand power over the sport to the FIA: http://www.motorspor...odt-tells-teams

[Nonesuch]

That's a rather crude headline. Todt is saying that if the teams are serious about their calls for changing the way the series is run then changes should be made through a formal procedure and result in a formal change of tasks and responsibilities. It's good that at least someone in a position like his is willing to abide by the agreed upon procedures and remembers that he is not a quasi-monarch who can do as he pleases.

[johnmhinds]

Jean Todt is pathetic.

 

Scoring knobhead points by pointing out the teams wont give that power back to him (why did you give those powers away in the first place dipshit) isn't helping anyone.

[Rasputin]

Jean Todt is in reality an absent President who has done absolutely nothing during his term, it makes you wonder who really ran Ferrari during the Schumacher era.

 

Interviews with him is a total waste.

[Nonesuch]

Scoring knobhead points by pointing out the teams wont give that power back to him isn't helping anyone.

 

Todt is responding to complaints by various team principals - and thus members of the various F1 governing bodies - that he is not doing enough to change F1. This claim is often repeated here by people who pine for the days of Max Mosley having an opinion about every minor event in F1. Todt rightly points out that prior arrangements limit the influence of the FIA. He cannot simply ignore those agreements because some people allege they were a bad idea.

 

Jean Todt is in reality an absent President who has done absolutely nothing during his term, it makes you wonder who really ran Ferrari during the Schumacher era.

 

Todt has mostly been content to limit himself to those things the FIA has outlined for its president to do. Given the importance of F1 to the FIA's funding (though this is not clear as the FIA, being a French non-profit, does not publish detailed annual reports on its finances) this might not be the smartest move, but it is in keeping with his role.

 

His current tasks have little to do with how he ran the Scuderia in Maranello, but here is how Business Insider described his influence in a 2007 reconstruction of the events that led to Schumacher's retirement (mirror);

 

 

Todt had made Ferrari his own fiefdom, much to the annoyance of Montezemolo. The two had already clashed earlier this year when Montezemolo wanted to take Marlboro off the car for 2007 and find a non-tobacco sponsor. Todt wanted to stay with an eager Marlboro. Montezemolo tried everything he could to find an alternative and even invited Sir Martin Sorrell, chief executive of WPP Group, the world's biggest advertising agency group, to visit him in Maranello. Ostensibly he wanted to discuss whether WPP and its network of sponsorship agencies could help with finding a new title sponsor for 2007. But Todt found out about Sorrell's visit. And when Sorrell arrived at Maranello, he did not meet with Montezemolo but with the Frenchman. Predictably the discussions went nowhere. Todt told Sorrell he already had a title sponsor for 2007 and asked him why he was there. (...)

Montezemolo was in despair after the Marlboro deal was signed. It made Todt, now seen as a top rainmaker, even more powerful inside the team. In fact Montezemolo had begun to feel like a stranger in his own factory. Continually away on Fiat and Italian business, Montezemolo realised he had made a mistake when he had promoted Todt the year before to head the whole Ferrari car factory. He had expected him to fall flat on his face but instead he rose to the task and Ferrari, which had been in the financial doldrums, began a remarkable recovery under Todt's stewardship.

 

Montezemolo felt he had created a monster in Todt that he could no longer control. Although the two men had worked together for more than a decade, they were like chalk and cheese. Behind the rough exterior, Todt is a self-made, cultured man, an art lover with impeccable taste. In 2005 he had teamed up with Hollywood actress, Michelle Yeoh, got engaged to her and was in many ways beginning to outshine Montezemolo himself.

Edited by Nonesuch, 26 June 2015 - 07:49.

[Szoelloe]

Jean Todt is pathetic.

 

Scoring knobhead points by pointing out the teams wont give that power back to him (why did you give those powers away in the first place dipshit) isn't helping anyone.

 

He is anything but. He is a N. Bonaparte replica. He knows motorsport inside-out. It would be the best solution to give him the reigns asap. 

[johnmhinds]

He is anything but. He is a N. Bonaparte replica. He knows motorsport inside-out. It would be the best solution to give him the reigns asap. 

 

When he became the FIA president he had the reigns, he was the one that gave them away because said he didn't know what to do with F1 and wanted the teams to work it out.

Edited by johnmhinds, 26 June 2015 - 07:45.

[pRy]

When he became the FIA president he had the reigns, he was the one that gave them away because said he didn't know what to do with F1 and wanted the teams to work it out.

 

To be fair I'm not sure the FIA had much choice considering the threats being made by the teams to go create their own series. FOTA held the sport hostage and we're now enjoying the fruits of that.

Edited by pRy, 26 June 2015 - 08:28.

[Szoelloe]

When he became the FIA president he had the reigns, he was the one that gave them away because said he didn't know what to do with F1 and wanted the teams to work it out.

 

Well, I know that. Things change. He didn't want to do it. It is kind of obvious that the teams themselves are fully incompetent in running their own show. It would be foolish to leave them to self destruct F1. So, again: NO, Todt is NOT pathetic, I say let him run, the show. Bring in Brawn beside him again, and between them they will have the necessary authority to lead with a firm hand, no BS, no democracy, no backstabbing. Obviously the teams would have to agree on that first. Ah, and yes, somebody lock up Bernie in luxury asylum too.

[aramos]

Who is this Jean Todt and what does he do? Does he work in F1 or something?

 

I don't think I've heard from him before.

[Gyno]

Who is this Jean Todt and what does he do? Does he work in F1 or something?

 

I don't think I've heard from him before.

Then you haven't followed F1 for more then a few years.

[aramos]

Then you haven't followed F1 for more then a few years.

whoosh

[Tourgott]

Lauda, Wolff, Marko, Horner, Arrivabene and Tost said they want to get rid of the strategy group. I don't see why this should be "just words". 

4 out of 6 votes from the teams, + 12 votes from FIA (Todt) and FOM (Bernie). This is enough, isn't it?

[hittheapex]

To be fair I'm not sure the FIA had much choice considering the threats being made by the teams to go create their own series. FOTA held the sport hostage and we're now enjoying the fruits of that.

This is being overlooked. Todt is a politically astute man. It's why he worked with Brawn and Schumacher to agree to work together to reduce LDM's influence and avoid the "divide and rule" within Ferrari.

 

The teams had had enough of a dictatorial FIA. That was clear when they wanted Mosley gone. Indeed, a breakaway had been a possibility and was discussed from the late 1990s up to when Mosley was forced out.

 

Todt's attitude is that he is not going to violate process to bring about change. The teams made their bed and can lie in it. If they want the FIA to become more involved, he'll do it, but he wants to be empowered to do it. Otherwise, it could just be a big mess with the FIA and teams arguing over what to do for several months and then deciding to do nothing.

[mzvztag]

I for one, would like the power of running F1 to be concentrated in FIA as the regulator with all the rights to make technical and sporting rules, decide on the calendar and manage team entries.

FOM should be done away with and there should be no F1 company of any kind and no F1 owner. So only FIA, teams and track owners.

It should become a much smaller business than it is, be available on public TV and concentrate on basics: to be the topmost open wheel racing series in the world, where by topmost I refer to having the fastest cars.

It is possible with much less money: do away with the TV rights (make them free), pay start and prize money directly (tracks to teams/drivers) from the tickets and track advertising, finance the teams from sponsorship only.

Keep all the European races with tradition (France, UK, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Austria, Monaco), downscale the calendar to 16 races, open technical regulations, grant the national Grand Prix title only to FIA-sanctioned events (so if a breakaway series forms, no national GP title for those races).

Edited by mzvztag, 26 June 2015 - 10:06.

[FullThrottleF1]

whoosh

 

Gyno's sarcasm detector must be down 

[jonpollak]

Shouldn't he be concentrating on the next big slap up dinner for his cronies in high places?

[ViMaMo]

Anything close to Max Moseley being better or i-wish-he-was-prez deserves this 

 

Yeah!!  (whiny) ladies and gentlemen, F1 managed to push out Max after years of hatred for him from everyone/every quarter and now there is a growing itch for Max. Those wishing for Max or dreaming of Max are deluded. Im sorry. But had to say it. 

[jonpollak]

message from the secretary

 

"1969 called:   It wants its business model back."

I for one, would like the power of running F1 to be concentrated in FIA as the regulator with all the rights to make technical and sporting rules, decide on the calendar and manage team entries.

FOM should be done away with and there should be no F1 company of any kind and no F1 owner. So only FIA, teams and track owners.

It should become a much smaller business than it is, be available on public TV and concentrate on basics: to be the topmost open wheel racing series in the world, where by topmost I refer to having the fastest cars.

It is possible with much less money: do away with the TV rights (make them free), pay start and prize money directly (tracks to teams/drivers) from the tickets and track advertising, finance the teams from sponsorship only.

Keep all the European races with tradition (France, UK, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Austria, Monaco), downscale the calendar to 16 races, open technical regulations, grant the national Grand Prix title only to FIA-sanctioned events (so if a breakaway series forms, no national GP title for those races).

Jp

[LuckyStrike1]

One thing I agree with Todt about is that there is a lot of talking from the teams, but in my opinion with very little will to action and very little thought behind the talking. 

 

The teams talk a lot and demand a lot and criticize a lot and they do have points about what they are criticising. The thing is though that what they complain most about is revenue distribution in the sport and the current regulations for engines and engine development. Two big areas where they, the teams, have actively approved the current situation. 

 

So this is what they accepted and now the complain about it. It's getting a bit hard to take seriously. That's one reason why the sport is in a bit of a mess at the moment, the other thing is that FOM/CVC successfully have used their divide and conquer strategy to take advantage of the teams indecievenes and short-mindness. 

[johnmhinds]

This is being overlooked. Todt is a politically astute man. It's why he worked with Brawn and Schumacher to agree to work together to reduce LDM's influence and avoid the "divide and rule" within Ferrari.

 

The teams had had enough of a dictatorial FIA. That was clear when they wanted Mosley gone. Indeed, a breakaway had been a possibility and was discussed from the late 1990s up to when Mosley was forced out.

 

Todt's attitude is that he is not going to violate process to bring about change. The teams made their bed and can lie in it. If they want the FIA to become more involved, he'll do it, but he wants to be empowered to do it. Otherwise, it could just be a big mess with the FIA and teams arguing over what to do for several months and then deciding to do nothing.

 

What does Todt want to do though? What are his proposals?

 

He has said nothing about which direction F1 needs to go in for almost his entire reign as the FIA president.

 

http://www.motorspor...ncer-says-todt/

 

Formula 1's current problems are a 'headache' rather than a 'cancer', claims FIA president Jean Todt.

 

On the back of mounting criticism about the state of the sport, Todt has insisted that the situation is far from the crisis that some are suggesting.

And that has left him convinced that a host of changes to the rules to make cars faster and harder to drive for 2017, which are due to be discussed by teams at a Strategy Group meeting in London on July 1, can help solve the few issues he believes need resolving.

"I don't think we are facing a cancer," said Todt in an interview at the FIA's headquarters in Paris.

"We are facing a headache. So we need to find a prescription for the headache.

 

They're just going to have a meeting to discuss the teams random ideas yet again. Nothing about costs, nothing about making the sport cheaper for fans or the circuits.

 

Why would the teams give the power back to someone who has even less foresight and strategy than they do.

Edited by johnmhinds, 26 June 2015 - 11:44.

[Nonesuch]

Lauda, Wolff, Marko, Horner, Arrivabene and Tost said they want to get rid of the strategy group. I don't see why this should be "just words".
4 out of 6 votes from the teams, + 12 votes from FIA (Todt) and FOM (Bernie). This is enough, isn't it?

It might be enough, but it will be 'just words' until things are formally changed and a new procedure and power structure is approved and put in place of the current arrangements. Todt apparently doesn't want to get ahead of things, and that's understandable given how fickle the teams have proven to be.
 

http://www.motorspor...ncer-says-todt/
 
They're just going to have a meeting to discuss the teams random ideas yet again. Nothing about costs, nothing about making the sport cheaper for fans or the circuits.
 
Why would the teams give the power back to someone who has even less foresight and strategy than they do.

Todt talks about the costs of F1 in that very article. He even takes (some) responsibility for the way things are now.
 
Also in that article, Todt is quoted as saying that 'new proposals, directions, shall be proposed next week – July 1 – in London in the meeting of the Strategy Group'. The FIA is playing its part as set out in the current governing structures. That the teams can't make up their minds one way or the other and have only their own interest in mind isn't - in the current situation - the FIA's fault. The president of the FIA is not the Supreme Leader of Formula One, and thankfully Todt hasn't convinced himself that he is either.

[AlexLangheck]

He's the FiA President, not the F1 President, which is what Max basically was.....

[johnmhinds]

Todt talks about the costs of F1 in that very article. He even takes (some) responsibility for the way things are now.

 

You're going to praise the guy for saying in 2015 that the engines have been too expensive?

 

The smaller teams were saying that was going to be an issue as soon as they started talking about the current engine regulations back in late 2012.

 

I'm not going to give the guy a pat on the back for saying we may get some kind of vote on having cheaper engines from 2017.

Edited by johnmhinds, 26 June 2015 - 12:37.

[Gyno]

Gyno's sarcasm detector must be down 

 

We finns don't understand sarcasm.

[Fisico54]

He's the FiA President, not the F1 President, which is what Max basically was.....

Which is even worse as it's not just F1 he is failing.
WRC - even F1 looks in good health and well run in comparison
Driver Ladder - destruction of the national f3 championship set up, confused plethora of competing championships, vast increase in costs, bungled new F2 plan

Only really WEC and WTCC aren't a complete mess and that's because FIA has pretty much left them alone and , unlike f1, this neglect hasn't bitten them

Edited by Fisico54, 26 June 2015 - 12:41.

[Fastcake]

Todt is responding to complaints by various team principals - and thus members of the various F1 governing bodies - that he is not doing enough to change F1. This claim is often repeated here by people who pine for the days of Max Mosley having an opinion about every minor event in F1. Todt rightly points out that prior arrangements limit the influence of the FIA. He cannot simply ignore those agreements because some people allege they were a bad idea.


Todt has mostly been content to limit himself to those things the FIA has outlined for its president to do. Given the importance of F1 to the FIA's funding (though this is not clear as the FIA, being a French non-profit, does not publish detailed annual reports on its finances) this might not be the smartest move, but it is in keeping with his role.

His current tasks have little to do with how he ran the Scuderia in Maranello, but here is how Business Insider described his influence in a 2007 reconstruction of the events that led to Schumacher's retirement (mirror);

You have this odd obsession with excusing Todt Nonesuch. Frankly, despite what the FIA press department may claim, the FIA has no real role outside of governing motorsport. If Todt wants to work on road safety he should go join another organisation that actually has improved it. In the meantime, he should be concentrating on what the FIA actually has been doing for the past few decades. And not just get involved in F1 either, practically every form of Motorsport could benefit from some actual leadership right now.

[mzvztag]

message from the secretary

"1969 called: It wants its business model back."
Jp

Yes :-)
What did I for example profit from Bernie's actions, as an ordinary fan?
OK, all the races are televised. But I would love the sport even if it's half-amateurish.

[wrcva]

Jean Todt is in reality an absent President who has done absolutely nothing during his term, it makes you wonder who really ran Ferrari during the Schumacher era.

 

Interviews with him is a total waste.

 

That also tells you how good Brawn is/was (both technically and organizationally).   In other words, Brawn made him look really good during that era because he can analyse stuff in a hurry and make quick decisions or deals.    Plus, Charlie has huge respect to Brawn -- I cannot recall a major case Brawn could not twist Charlie's arm to get what he wanted (the most notable ones being Brawn DD, and the legality of Merc tire test couple of years ago in which Charlie issued the only deciding expert opinion).    Because he is a low key guy, people still underestimate Charlie's power (and loyalty to Bernie)- he almost made Ferrari lawyers cry during Brawn DD hearings.   I think Max's departure was a welcoming change for Bernie, but now Todt is becoming nuisance for him because his inaction = status quo for Max's agenda, already in works.    

[charly0418]

Read the article first people

[jonpollak]

Yes :-)
What did I for example profit from Bernie's actions, as an ordinary fan?
OK, all the races are televised. But I would love the sport even if it's half-amateurish.

 

Oh don't get me wrong...You are bang on what would be 'right'.

But ya can't go back after the horse has bolted.

 

Our only hope there is that the overblown TV money dries up and they use the frickin' internet to broadcast the thing...

 

Jp
 

[Nonesuch]

You have this odd obsession with excusing Todt Nonesuch.

 

I'm not too bothered about Todt. What I find disappointing is that he is singled out when the president of the FIA has, according to the organisation's statutes, a rather limited role. Like Todt said in that interview; change the governance and the current agreements if they no longer serve their original function and are no longer able to help F1 solve its problems - but don't go around demanding action from the only person within the FIA that the average F1 fan recognizes by name.

 

Indeed, the FIA hierarchy includes someone solely dedicated to F1 affairs. Someone who answers to the Secretary General for Sport, Jean-Louis Valentin. That man is none other than Charlie Whiting, the veteran F1 race director who has done such a remarkable job overseeing the technical and sporting regulations for the past (almost) 20 years.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

The most noticeable difference between Todt and Mosley was that Mosley attended each Grand Prix and micro-managed Formula One while Todt attends not even five events and spends most of his time and effort on things other than Formula One. I cannot gave a valid opinion on exactly Totd's worth to the FIA is, but he won re-election without breaking a sweat.

 

It is extremely important to understand the vast differences between the Mosley and Todt eras. When Max Mosley was head of the FIA, he and Bernie ruled Formula One. Totally. On important issues both Mosley and Ecclestone were on the same page, hence they always got their own way. Bernie used the divide-and-conquer method by making sure that at least Ferrari and Williams were firmly in his corner on any important issues, and Mosley just used fear and brute lawyer force to maintain discipline.

 

But for Todt, he is in a completely different environment. Power is now split many different ways, and he cannot force change directly. So like the political animal he is, he has spent the last few years strengthening his position within the FIA, and is waiting for any opportunities to makes changes and take back any power from Formula One. And obviously, now is a good time. Mercedes are running away with the title, many fans are very dissatisfied with many issues, there is continual discussion on all levels on the shortcomings of Formula One, because everyone understands that it needs to be fixed.

 

So he has gone public. His appeal appears to be directed towards the teams, but it is the public he wants this message to hear. I read the article and what he says. He talks about driving sponsors away. That is painfully obvious, a huge name like McLaren still does not sport a major sponsor on the side of their car. That fact alone speaks volumes. He talks about  being competitive, and he talks about how such ineffective groups such as the Strategy Group have so much power but are almost completely useless.

 

Like the politician he is, Todt has waited for the opportune time to make an appeal to the public, influence the teams, and hopefully gain back some control of Formula One.

[mzvztag]

Is FIA formally a non-profit organization or not?

[DutchQuicksilver]

If they do that is the final nail in the coffin for F1. It's because of the FIA that the regulations are the way they are, and of course the ridiculous safety measures these days.

 

So please, no don't give full power to the FIA.

[uffen]

Well, I know that. Things change. He didn't want to do it. It is kind of obvious that the teams themselves are fully incompetent in running their own show. It would be foolish to leave them to self destruct F1. So, again: NO, Todt is NOT pathetic, I say let him run, the show. Bring in Brawn beside him again, and between them they will have the necessary authority to lead with a firm hand, no BS, no democracy, no backstabbing. Obviously the teams would have to agree on that first. Ah, and yes, somebody lock up Bernie in luxury asylum too.

I love the idea of Brawn helping out but how would having him work with Todt suddenly give them, "the necessary authority to lead with a firm hand, no BS, no democracy, no backstabbing,"?

 

The most noticeable difference between Todt and Mosley was that Mosley attended each Grand Prix and micro-managed Formula One while Todt attends not even five events and spends most of his time and effort on things other than Formula One. I cannot gave a valid opinion on exactly Totd's worth to the FIA is, but he won re-election without breaking a sweat.

 

You're entirely correct and this points out that F1 is only a small portion of what the FIA, and thus its president, does. To us F1 is the biggest deal, now we have evidence that to the FIA affiliate members and representatives, all the other stuff Todt is doing matters more. Perhaps that is the secret of getting re-elected president of the FIA!

The other thing is, who ran against him? I honestly don't know.

[nosecone]

I think I remember Kimi screaming the same in Spa some time ago

 

 

 

Didn't know Kimi is so much in saving F1 but still...

Edited by nosecone, 26 June 2015 - 19:01.

[Fastcake]

I'm not too bothered about Todt. What I find disappointing is that he is singled out when the president of the FIA has, according to the organisation's statutes, a rather limited role. Like Todt said in that interview; change the governance and the current agreements if they no longer serve their original function and are no longer able to help F1 solve its problems - but don't go around demanding action from the only person within the FIA that the average F1 fan recognizes by name.

 

Indeed, the FIA hierarchy includes someone solely dedicated to F1 affairs. Someone who answers to the Secretary General for Sport, Jean-Louis Valentin. That man is none other than Charlie Whiting, the veteran F1 race director who has done such a remarkable job overseeing the technical and sporting regulations for the past (almost) 20 years.

 

I see your problem here. The federation's statues detail the President's formal responsibilities, but they're not meant to be a job description. Indeed if it was, all this jetsetting about under the veneer of road safety and schmoozing with the VIPs in hospitality wouldn't be allowed. Todt's job is to be the FIA's chief executive, and actually manage the things the FIA is doing. Todt choose to continuously vacillate and absolve himself of any responsibility towards motorsport, and he sold off the regulatory power in F1, limiting the FIA's role to fix the current mess. We are fully entitled to go around demanding action, because it's meant to be his job to act.

 

Charlie Whiting is employed as the race director and head of the technical team. He's not there to run the sport, unless Todt wants to hand over the job to him.

 

I love the idea of Brawn helping out but how would having him work with Todt suddenly give them, "the necessary authority to lead with a firm hand, no BS, no democracy, no backstabbing,"?

 

You're entirely correct and this points out that F1 is only a small portion of what the FIA, and thus its president, does. To us F1 is the biggest deal, now we have evidence that to the FIA affiliate members and representatives, all the other stuff Todt is doing matters more. Perhaps that is the secret of getting re-elected president of the FIA!

The other thing is, who ran against him? I honestly don't know.

 

Todt was elected unopposed, mainly thanks to Mosley fixing the rules in the past to make opposition almost impossible. You know how these sporting federations work. Largesse and patronage are handed out to those members who support the leadership, and in turn any dissent is met with immediate removal from committees and grant lists. All accounts suggest Todt is acting according to form. 

[KingTiger]

I'd rather see Brawn run the sport. He's the only one I have faith in that can fix it all. 

[Atreiu]

'Wait, something's wrong? I really didn't know. Can you please let me help? I'm only the president of FIA'.

Edited by Atreiu, 27 June 2015 - 00:55.

[Wuzak]

You're going to praise the guy for saying in 2015 that the engines have been too expensive?

 

The smaller teams were saying that was going to be an issue as soon as they started talking about the current engine regulations back in late 2012.

 

I'm not going to give the guy a pat on the back for saying we may get some kind of vote on having cheaper engines from 2017.

 

He said that the mistake they made was to not cap the price for customer engine supply, as had been the case for the V8s.

 

I doubt that the engines/power units will change much for 2017. What may change is a price cap may be re-introduced. If they went for simplified engines without a price cap it is likely they would too be very expensive.

[Wuzak]

Up until 1993 the FIA had a sub division running motorsport. It was known as Commission Sportive Internationale de la FIA (CSI) from its inception in 1922 until it changed its name (in the '70s?) to Fédération Internationale du Sport Automobile (FISA).

 

As far as I can tell, only three men held the poistion of President of the FIA and FISA at the same time.

 

Paul Alfons von Metternich-Winneburg (CSI 1970-1976, FIA 1975-1985)

Jean-Marie Balestre (FISA 1978 - 1991, FIA 1985-1993)

Max Moseley (FISA 1991-1993, FIA 1993-2009)

 

Of course, the first thing Moseley did was to wind up FISA and bring motorsport under the direct control of the FIA. I'm not sure that this was agood thing.

 

I would think that having a division to expressly control over and watch over motorsport would be a better situation for motorsport in general, and F1 in particular.

 

Also, such a body should not have the same president as the FIA.

[johnmhinds]

He said that the mistake they made was to not cap the price for customer engine supply, as had been the case for the V8s.

 

I doubt that the engines/power units will change much for 2017. What may change is a price cap may be re-introduced. If they went for simplified engines without a price cap it is likely they would too be very expensive.

 

I don't think they just "forgot" to put into the rules. Disputes about rising costs were a huge thing throughout 2013.

 

The smaller teams complained about the price increases so much during 2013 that everyone decided to push them out of the decision making process altogether when the F1 Strategy Group was created.

 

You have to wonder if the FIA got a back hander from the engine manufacturers to leave engine cost caps out, how much extra $$$ have they made from there being no limits, around $10million+ extra per team for each season the FIA just forgets to write in cost cap rules?

 

Does anyone think that these engines really cost that much more?

[superden]

Give me the power.

That's all he wants.

[Fastcake]

Up until 1993 the FIA had a sub division running motorsport. It was known as Commission Sportive Internationale de la FIA (CSI) from its inception in 1922 until it changed its name (in the '70s?) to Fédération Internationale du Sport Automobile (FISA).

As far as I can tell, only three men held the poistion of President of the FIA and FISA at the same time.

Paul Alfons von Metternich-Winneburg (CSI 1970-1976, FIA 1975-1985)
Jean-Marie Balestre (FISA 1978 - 1991, FIA 1985-1993)
Max Moseley (FISA 1991-1993, FIA 1993-2009)

Of course, the first thing Moseley did was to wind up FISA and bring motorsport under the direct control of the FIA. I'm not sure that this was agood thing.

I would think that having a division to expressly control over and watch over motorsport would be a better situation for motorsport in general, and F1 in particular.

Also, such a body should not have the same president as the FIA.

A better idea would be to split the FIA into two independent bodies. A new international Motorsport federation could be formed to run the sport free of the distractions of the non-sporting arm (I'll call it new-FISA, since the French will probably insist on the name), while the FIA can continue to manage their remaining activities.

It's clear that the mobility and sporting arms have completely different goals and require separate, dedicated leadership, so why keep them both under the same federation?

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

Does anyone think that these engines really cost that much more?

 

Oh yea, lots and lots of dollars. First off, due to the fact that Formula One is a competition, the sheer necessity of competition has forced everyone to build and field incredibly complex pieces of machinery. And because of that, you can no longer separate one component from another. As a broad example, the front wing influences everything downstream, even oil temperature and rear downforce. Think of it as a highly tuned Olympic athlete, if he/she has a sore toe, it may affect the final outcome of a football match.

 

I have no problem with competition and raising the bar, but under the present financial circumstances, the rich teams can afford to spend more on refinement while the poorer teams barely hang on and will never have the opportunity to develop in the same manner as a richer team. Everything is interrelated.

 

I know a little bit about engines, and if you wish to, expend a huge amount of man-hours and money just assembling what appears to be a very simple engine. You can build a short block, just the block, crankshaft, rods and pistons. Build ten, run them on a vibration dyno, and reject 9 of them. Do that enough times and you finally reach the point where you have four engines deemed acceptable to race. You have to do it that way, there are 19 races on the calender, the team has expended 200 million annually, that means a race can be valued at over ten millions dollars. Lose enough engines to incur a penalty (as in the case of Ricciardo) and you will suffer at least two races. The cost of failure is so high you have to be willing to spend a lot of money to ensure the best odds.

 

When the new 2014 power unit regulations were first drawn up, it seemed like a good idea at the time. But since the new power units enjoy the use of KERS and HERS, everything became incredibly complex. And to solve complexity, you need money. The DRS has to harvest just the right amount at just the right rate. The HERS has to do the same. The switches for such a tremendous amount of energy have to work flawlessly and on cue. Add in the current fascination with tight packaging, and the radiators are at their absolute minimum, thus if anything starts to run hot, the car is in serious jeopardy of a DNF. We saw that in the first race of 2014 where the team called Hamilton into the pits to retire because things under the bodywork were not right.

 

Currently the cars have become incredibly complex, everything interacts with everything else. That is why Renault and Honda are struggling. There are manufacturers with tremendous history and expertise, yet they are struggling to make their engines competitive, nay, just last one race.

 

Before the new engine rules, costs for engines was estimated at 50% of a team's entire budget. But with these new power units, the fraction of a team's budget has to have risen astronomically.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

That's all he wants.

 

Is another baby? 

[Peter0Scandlyn]

He is anything but. He is a N. Bonaparte replica. He knows motorsport inside-out. It would be the best solution to give him the reigns asap. 

 

I'd rather see him holding the thing at the other end of the horse.....

[Peter0Scandlyn]

Is FIA formally a non-profit organization or not?

 

Or not......under the Toad regime. Too much emphasis on travels, dinners and good times for all that cling to his belt. Work? Pffft, tomorrow....

[johnmhinds]

Before the new engine rules, costs for engines was estimated at 50% of a team's entire budget. But with these new power units, the fraction of a team's budget has to have risen astronomically.

The engines have never been 50% of any teams budget.

Williams, Lotus and Force India have been quoted as saying they're paying around $25million for their Mercedes engines, which is around 20%-35% of their current budgets (assuming Williams is still operating on around $120million, Force India on around $80million and Lotus is somewhere in the middle of that)

And they've said that the engine deals doubled in price when the new rules came in.

Edited by johnmhinds, 27 June 2015 - 07:13.